Do we really need guns?

[ivwshane]

Uhhh, Charlton Heston != Clint Eastwood, actually. And Eastwood would have answered "yes I know how to use a gun", actually.

Lol! I'm a dumb ass

Old, white men all look the same to me

 

[highland145]

There's a number of photos of Korean shop owners defending their stores from rooftops, while they're armed to the teeth. They did a pretty good job of saving their stores, too.

QFT.


I hope they didn't kill their kids, dogs, or community organizers.

 

[werepossum]

Lol! I'm a dumb ass

Old, white men all look the same to me

If it makes you feel any better, I can't tell the Kardashians apart. Except that giant one. And the one with a penis.

 

[RampantAndroid]

QFT.


I hope they didn't kill their kids, dogs, or community organizers.

They started a number of gun fights shooting at looters, but I don't know if they hit anyone. So little is really know about the LA Riots with regards to how some people died.

 

[highland145]

If it makes you feel any better, I can't tell the Kardashians apart. Except that giant one. And the one with a penis.

There's still a penis?

 

[highland145]

They started a number of gun fights shooting at looters, but I don't know if they hit anyone. So little is really know about the LA Riots with regards to how some people died.

I know their stores weren't looted.


Gad they brandished their knives.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't think non-American first worlders really understand this. Look at how Japan reacted to the tsunami. They were orderly, helped each other and didn't rob or loot. Now look at how Haiti reacted to their most recent earthquake. Robbing, murdering, looting and raping that was only suppressed by armed private security and U.S. Army Paratroopers.

My point is, America has more Haitians than it has Japanese.

Imho we have created a rather large criminal element in our society with our insane war on drugs and even insaner sentencing practices. During Katrina I definitely saw more people helping their neighbors and even complete strangers than I saw bad guys. The problem is one group of bad guys in a situation like that can cause a hellofa lot more damage than normal. Add to that the questionable hiring practices of the NOPD that caused a significant amount of their force to quite literally loot Cadillac's and flee rather than do their jobs, a few of the ones that did remain committing flat out murder and then covering for each other (quite a few have finally been convicted and sent to jail) and to top it off they are wasting their time illegally confiscating guns from the good guys instead of going after the bad..... It's a perfect storm for the criminal underworld, again imho one that our society helped create, to do as they please.

 

[piasabird]

Rambo says "Lets Party!"

 

[werepossum]

There's still a penis?

Dunno - I'M not looking!

 

[xaero999]

It became a nationwide fetishism, so giving up guns today would be harmful for the ideology of the nation. What's about the proper use - yes, the defensive role of guns gave its first place to gun culture. But banning it today would be ridiculous, it's like banning the current flag.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Do we really need abortions?

Absolutely.

Or would you prefer to live in a nation experiencing a massive population explosion? How about higher taxes to pay for all of the societal costs associated with children being born into poverty? How about higher crime rates? How about more crack babies? How about more children with physical and mental deformities who will need government aid (higher taxes)?

What we really need is government funding for abortions. It would provide a huge return-on-investment in terms of the net cost savings.

 

[NesuD]

Do we really need guns? Don't you think there are too many crimes involving gun violence? Maybe it would be better to ban firearms completely? It's not like we really need guns for self-defense. I would only use a gun to protect myself only if a criminal had a gun too. It's pretty obviously that the number of gun involved crimes would decrease drastically if the criminals weren't be able to obtain guns legally.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

These guys knew why we need guns. Even though things always change over time there are still plenty of examples in the world that validate these sentiments even today.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Random other gun story that comes to mind, the "Fuck you and your high powered rifle" incident...:

Situation: A road-rage incident escalates into a deadly pursuit.

Lesson: Keep communications as handy as your gun. Bad guys fear resolutely armed people, not weapons. Remember that full auto can stop a fight--but start an indictment.

It's amazing how often a criminal will say something unbelievably stupid just before he forces a decent citizen to kill him. For many years I've been piecing together a book subtitled "Famous Last Words of Scumbags." The working title will come from the most memorable such incident: "F*** You and Your Automatic Rifle!"

The shooter was Gary Fadden. The incident took place some 20 years ago. Only now is Gary comfortable speaking of it, in hopes that others may learn from lessons that cost him very deeply.



The Incident

Sunday, February 24, 1984, approximately 2 PM. Gary Fadden, 26, and his lovely 22 year old fiancee are driving from a birthday party in Martinsburg, WV, into Virginia to look at some property for what they hope will be their starter home after their marriage. It's a bitterly cold day, and with the winter coats in the back of a new '84 Ford F-250 supercab 4WD diesel pickup, the Pendleton-clad Fadden looks from a distance like a harmless Yuppie. That means he and the pretty brunette look like prey to another kind of person.

Heading east on Rt. 50, they are passed by a Harley-Davidson motorcycle with two people astride, the operator cutting in front of him so sharply that he has to brake suddenly. Gary comments to his fiancee how cold they must be riding a bike on a low 30s day, and that driving as carelessly as he is, the cyclist needs to worry about sudden patches of ice.

A few minutes later, he spots a Chevy pickup in his rearview mirrors. It contains three people. One passenger is gesturing to him to pull over. Gary doesn't know what these scruffy guys want and he ignores them. But then he sees the passenger waving a knife, and the driver bringing up a revolver.

Gary says to his fiancee, in what will probably be the understatement of his life, "We've got a bit of a problem here."



Pursuit

It is 1984, long before the universal coming of cell phones, and there is no other communications in the vehicle. They are entering Middleburg, a town of perhaps 800, and stop at a red light. Behind them, Gary can see both males exit their truck and run toward him. The driver's hand is actually on Gary's door handle when he pops the clutch and sends his new truck screeching through the intersection against the light. The two men run back to their older pickup, and the chase is on.

They're almost on his bumper. Gary accelerates, hitting open road now, zig-zagging between reaching 95 miles an hour when the speed governor cuts in. Not only are the pursuers keeping pace but he sees the driver aiming a revolver at him out his window. Honking his horn and flashing his lights when he runs into a cluster of automobiles, passing them sometimes on the shoulder of the road and spraying rooster-tails of gravel, Gary still cannot elude the truck behind him.

Gary is desperately looking for a police car he can flag down. He doesn't see one. The chase has gone for 22 miles now and they're getting into a more compact area again. Coming up is an intersection tic knows well: he goes through it every day on his way to work. Even on Sunday it will be clogged. He forms a plan quickly: if the light is in his favor, he'll go through it and keep going, hoping to find police in a more populated area. If the light is against him, he'll turn right, and make for the plant where he works on Chantilly Road.

The light stays red. Gary cuts hard right, heading for what he hopes will be the sanctuary of the workplace. Behind him, he can see that the pursuers haven't given up an inch. "I've got my pass card through the gates and the front door," he tells his fiancee urgently. "We'll get into the building and we can hide. They can't find us. We'll call the cops from there."

He pulls into the front area of the plant, the automatic mechanism taking an achingly long time to raise the gate. As the gate opens, the pursuing truck comes to a stop behind his, both men jumping out and running to Gary's Ford, their hands clawing at his door handles. He guns the engine and gels away from them, sweeping up to the front door and locking up the brakes in a skid.

The plant is Heckler and Koch.

Gary Fadden is a salesman for HK, and among the rest of their firearms, he sells machine guns. In the truck with him is a competitor's weapon he has acquired to test, a Ruger AC556, the selective-fire assault version of the .223 Mini-14. He grabs it now as he throws open the truck door, hoping to hold them off at gunpoint. lie knows his fiancee can't make it to the building's door now, and he screams to her to get down on the floor of the Ford.



The Shooting

The passenger is running toward him, an average size man in ratty clothes with stringy hair, a long beard, and an expression of absolute rage.

The selector switch and manual safety of the AC556 are in two different locations. Gary has not yet fired this weapon and, though he has taken off the safety, he doesn't know whether the switch is set for semi, three-shot burst, or full auto. He yells "Stop or I'll shoot," points the muzzle upward, and pulls the trigger for a warning shot.

The weapon is set on full automatic. Everything is going into deep slow motion, and Gary is aware that the Ruger spits a burst of nine shots before he can get his finger back off the trigger.

There is no effect whatsoever. The attacker is still running at him, perhaps ten yards away and closing fast, reaching for knives at his belt with each hand. The assailant screams, "F*** you and your high powered rifle! I'm gonna kill you motherf***ers!"

And Gary Fadden has run out of time. He lowers the Ruger, points it at the charging knifer, and pulls the trigger one more time. in the ethereal slow motion of profound tachypsychia, Gary can see the spent .223 shells arcing lazily out of the mechanism. He stops the burst, aware that six shots have been fired, as the man in front of him falls heavily to the ground.

Gary moves quickly, putting a big brick planter between himself and the onrushing pickup as cover. The truck stops and the driver, the larger of the two bearded men, shrieks. "F*** you! You killed one of the brothers! You shot him, you motherf***er!" Gary's weapon is level and ready, but this time instead of waving the revolver, the man looks as if he's trying to hide it in the cab of his truck. Gary can see now that the third person in the truck, the one who has always stayed in the cab, is a woman.

And then, the police are there. "They've got guns," Gary shouts to the officers disgorging from two patrol cars. He sets his rifle down and steps back as the officers swarm the pickup truck, taking the surviving man and woman into custody. In a moment, a cop is standing with Gary. "I did it," Gary says. The cop answers, "Did what?" "I shot that man." The officer picks up the AC556. "It's loaded," Gary warns, "Do you want me to unload it'?" The policeman answers. "No, I'll do it. Why don't you sit down?"

I dropped the part where they charged him with 1st degree murder, dropped it to 2nd degree and ran with it all because EWVIL AWTOMATIC WIFLE! (and the jury took 9 minutes to acquit.) Turns out the pursuers were on meth, all had records, and were in one of the notorious motorcycle gangs.

 

[mu11et]

Heston was awesome.
Milius was crazy awesome!!

 

[Angry Irishman]

Yes, if you as an American citizen so choose.

 

[Svnla]

Another perfect example of unsafe/irresponsible gun owner(s) = http://www.ktbs.com/story/29586685/...s-following-accidental-shooting-in-shreveport

Police said the boy somehow found a loaded handgun, started playing with it and shot himself.

 

[Genx87]

Another perfect example of unsafe/irresponsible gun owner(s) = http://www.ktbs.com/story/29586685/...s-following-accidental-shooting-in-shreveport

These are also good examples of an irresponsible gun owners.

http://abc7news.com/news/rangers-stolen-gun-used-in-sf-pier-14-shooting/835700/

"The firearm in question was issued to a Bureau of Land Management Law Enforcement Ranger. The Ranger was on official government travel when his vehicle was broken into and the theft occurred. The theft was immediately reported to the San Francisco Police Department. The Bureau of Land Management is deeply saddened by the tragic events of July 1, 2015, and our thoughts are with the family and friends of Ms. Steinle."

The public defender believes the number of guns lost or stolen from federal agents is a growing problem. He points to the ATF, or the Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Agency.

"Their agents had lost something like 500 guns over a five or six year period, guns reported as either lost or stolen," he said.

Also

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/politics/capitol-police-leave-guns-in-bathroom-stalls/

U.S. Capitol Police officers assigned to the security details of the top two Republicans in Congress mistakenly left their Glock pistols in bathroom stalls in two separate recent incidents, according to a congressional source familiar with an internal investigation into the embarrassing mishaps.

In a similar case, a housekeeper working in the Capitol Police headquarters, a few blocks from the Capitol, found another misplaced gun while cleaning, the source said.

Sounds like the state cant be trusted securing their firearms. I'm sure you would support disarming it right?

 

[werepossum]

These are also good examples of an irresponsible gun owners.

http://abc7news.com/news/rangers-stolen-gun-used-in-sf-pier-14-shooting/835700/

Also

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/politics/capitol-police-leave-guns-in-bathroom-stalls/

Sounds like the state cant be trusted securing their firearms. I'm sure you would support disarming it right?

My first thought was that I need to spend some time going through Congressional bathroom stalls. Free Glock! Then I remembered what else probably goes on in Congressional bathroom stalls (especially on the Republican side of the aisle) and decided I'd best just stay in Tennessee. Our libraries might not equal the Congressional Library, but at least in ours the pages aren't crying when bent over. 'Cause they're paper.

 

[ivwshane]

These are also good examples of an irresponsible gun owners.

http://abc7news.com/news/rangers-stolen-gun-used-in-sf-pier-14-shooting/835700/





[/b]

Also

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/politics/capitol-police-leave-guns-in-bathroom-stalls/



Sounds like the state cant be trusted securing their firearms. I'm sure you would support disarming it right?

Sure, why not?

 

[Svnla]

Sounds like the state cant be trusted securing their firearms. I'm sure you would support disarming it right?

See post # 103 of this thread.

 

[Genx87]

See post # 103 of this thread.

:thumbsup:

 

[Chaotic0ne]

I love guns just as much as PC hardware. Unfortunately I had to sell a couple of them when I as unemployed to pay the bills, but I'm planning on buying some new ones.

I can't think of a better way to blow off some steam than dump a 20 round drum out of a 12 gauge Saiga at a shooting range. Unfortunately I had to sell my baby .

Guns are a very good investment and are guaranteed to hold their value or increase in value over time. I sold a Romanian AK I paid $350 for in 2004 for $900 in 2014.

I love my H&K .45acp, its one of the best pistols I've ever shot. Mine is identical to this one in the SC below. When I got it I was as happy as a teenage girl that just met Justin Bieber.

If someone ever goes around confiscating guns, I'm no rambo, or 2nd amendment martyr. I'll just lie and said I sold them all while having them well secured in a secret compartment that federal troglodytes would never find. The ones who think they can take their hunting rifles, assault rifles and pistols and defeat an opponent who has tanks, smart bombs, and attack helicopters is pretty dumb. Natural selection deems them inadequate for survival. I'm not among that group. I'd rather live and be in defiance while their eyes are turned away and wait for the opportunity for some group to mount an opposition that has a change of winning. You know what they say, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. That's how smart people survive.

 

[BoberFett]

This thread is still going?

I would think the answer "Yes" would have pretty much ended it.

 

[BoberFett]

Absolutely.

Or would you prefer to live in a nation experiencing a massive population explosion? How about higher taxes to pay for all of the societal costs associated with children being born into poverty? How about higher crime rates? How about more crack babies? How about more children with physical and mental deformities who will need government aid (higher taxes)?

What we really need is government funding for abortions. It would provide a huge return-on-investment in terms of the net cost savings.

You want population control, think about how much we could do if everyone had government funded arsenals.

 

[ivwshane]

You want population control, think about how much we could do if everyone had government funded arsenals.

What is it that you are implying? That more guns magically leads to population control? Or are you saying more people will be killing each other and themselves, which boils down to more guns equals more violence and more deaths, something gun nutters say more guns wouldn't do.

Did you just troll yourself?