Do the Taiwanese want independence?

[dexvx]

I'm not taiwanese, but a lot of you people need to read up on history. If you were Chinese back in the time of the 1949 Civil War, I'd say 90%+ of you would've sided with the Communists. Why? Go read some books that American military advisers at the time wrote about the Nationalist military/government - Overly corrupt, brutal, etc. If the Nationalists won the Civil War, it would truly be a terrible place to live for a lot of poeple (think right-wing Spain from 1940-1970). Most of the people that fled from Taiwan were rich or fought for the Nationalists, thats why there was a LOT of resentment towards Taiwanese people in the early on.

The Communists actually HELPED a lot of the rural area people. A lot of people are overly critical about the Communist government in china, but the fact of the matter is, it drastically improved the lives of many people. That is why, having talked to older poeple in China, they are really loyal to the Communists. Their lives were utterly miserable (think post-colonial times), and even though the new Communist life is miserable by western standards, it was still a lot better than the post-colonial life.

Yes there was a lot of mistakes on the way and it still needs drastic improvement, but Mainland China turned to an economic disaster zone to a decent place to live in about 50 years. This is WITHOUT the help of the United States/Soviet economy, no loans, no foreign protection, an economic embargo, no money/gold reserves (Nationalists took all the gold reserves as they fled the big cities), alienation from every country on the planet up until 1970, and everything else against it.

Some Chinese people from living in other countries even decided to help out this new government. One of the most famous being a Chinese-American Cal-Tech nuclear physicist who was on the Manhattan Project. He wanted to leave to China and the United States refused to grant him that right (the irony of liberty). He only left after he was traded for an American general POW during the Korean War. He is basically responsible for almost all Chinese nuclear development up until the 80s.

China is a terrible place to live for a lot of people... that's why people leave by the boat load! ... the conclusion is clear... socalistic gov'ment sucks.

Yea there are illegal immigrants, but a terrible place to live? Would you please go there and verify that information? Because I don't think its a terrible place to live, and no, I dont camp in a 5 star hotel looking for cheap hookers.

As for China vs Taiwan. Sorry, but Taiwan had a LOT of foreign aid. If Taiwan had no foreign aid and restucturing by the United States, I would imagine it would be a pretty poor place to live too. Not to mention the fact that the Nationalists took most all the gold reserves in China to begin with.

Not all aspects of the socialist government sucks. Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the world (look at a UN health care survey). Inherently, most socialist health care is better than their capitalist counterparts.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: BOBBY RIBS
It's an obligation of Western society to protect those who reach out to the ideals we hold dear.

WORLD POLICE huh? :|

Indeed. If you don't like we'll smack you around with our massive war machine

 

[wQuay]

Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the world (look at a UN health care survey). Inherently, most socialist health care is better than their capitalist counterparts.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that wonderful health care system is only open to filthy rich foreigners, while the average Cuban has to ration food and electricity.

 

[Pennstate]

There needs to be a distinction of "borders" vs "forms of government". The Confederate was a democracy too. And would you change your opinion if 5 years from now, the mainland holds national elections? Keep in mind that it's only whithin the last 10 years that S. Korea and Taiwan have held free elections.

 

[prontospyder]

<<The Communists actually HELPED a lot of the rural area people. A lot of people are overly critical about the Communist government in china, but the fact of the matter is, it drastically improved the lives of many people. That is why, having talked to older poeple in China, they are really loyal to the Communists. Their lives were utterly miserable (think post-colonial times), and even though the new Communist life is miserable by western standards, it was still a lot better than the post-colonial life.>>

Maybe they were part of Mao's young red guard? That's not what I hear from old people who escaped from communist China back then. I hear stories of people being persecuted (force fed human feces, kneeling on broken glass, beaten and shot to death, etc...) just for gathering together and practicing a harmless and peaceful religion. I'm glad that the Nationalists left the totalitarian ideals behind. The world would be a much better place without the Chinese Communist government in power.

<<As for China vs Taiwan. Sorry, but Taiwan had a LOT of foreign aid. If Taiwan had no foreign aid and restucturing by the United States, I would imagine it would be a pretty poor place to live too. >>

So, what's your point? Japan and Germany was in the same boat too. That's one of the reasons why the US is the greatest nation in the world.

 

[dexvx]

I'm not advocating a Socialist government, but some things certainly need to be socialized. And yes, Chinese corruption is very big. But once in awhile, the government catches it, and they execute a few people to make a point (when i was staying a china, a provincial vice-governor got executed for some corruption).

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that wonderful health care system is only open to filthy rich foreigners, while the average Cuban has to ration food and electricity.

No, the underlying theme in Socialist Health Care is that everyone, poor or rich, healthy or unhealthy, should have access to the best health care available. Cuba's healthcare is ranked as one of the top in the world. They do healthcare for non-profit unlike <cough> HMOs </cough>. An example is that in America, women get ... 1 day? to deliver a baby and go back to work. In Cuba/China, women get about a week off. I think one of the biggest differences in cost is the fact that in America, doctors are considered the godly employment, getting the top echelon of students (leaving mostly 2nd tier students for engineering). In China for one, doctors are usually 2nd tier students, and engineering is first tier.

Of course for high tech health care, nothing can beat the United States, but that'd cost you so much (as a middle-class person), you might as well considering dying. Well too drastic, but it does cost a lot.

 

[prontospyder]

<<Keep in mind that it's only whithin the last 10 years that S. Korea and Taiwan have held free elections. >>

At least they're making progress. In 1996, Taiwan held the first free election in 5000 years of Chinese history and the mainland had to spoil it with military exercises just off their coast.

 

[soccerbud34]

Originally posted by: dexvx
I'm not taiwanese, but a lot of you people need to read up on history. If you were Chinese back in the time of the 1949 Civil War, I'd say 90%+ of you would've sided with the Communists. Why? Go read some books that American military advisers at the time wrote about the Nationalist military/government - Overly corrupt, brutal, etc. If the Nationalists won the Civil War, it would truly be a terrible place to live for a lot of poeple (think right-wing Spain from 1940-1970). Most of the people that fled from Taiwan were rich or fought for the Nationalists, thats why there was a LOT of resentment towards Taiwanese people in the early on.

The Communists actually HELPED a lot of the rural area people. A lot of people are overly critical about the Communist government in china, but the fact of the matter is, it drastically improved the lives of many people. That is why, having talked to older poeple in China, they are really loyal to the Communists. Their lives were utterly miserable (think post-colonial times), and even though the new Communist life is miserable by western standards, it was still a lot better than the post-colonial life.

Yes there was a lot of mistakes on the way and it still needs drastic improvement, but Mainland China turned to an economic disaster zone to a decent place to live in about 50 years. This is WITHOUT the help of the United States/Soviet economy, no loans, no foreign protection, an economic embargo, no money/gold reserves (Nationalists took all the gold reserves as they fled the big cities), alienation from every country on the planet up until 1970, and everything else against it.

Some Chinese people from living in other countries even decided to help out this new government. One of the most famous being a Chinese-American Cal-Tech nuclear physicist who was on the Manhattan Project. He wanted to leave to China and the United States refused to grant him that right (the irony of liberty). He only left after he was traded for an American general POW during the Korean War. He is basically responsible for almost all Chinese nuclear development up until the 80s.

China is a terrible place to live for a lot of people... that's why people leave by the boat load! ... the conclusion is clear... socalistic gov'ment sucks.

Yea there are illegal immigrants, but a terrible place to live? Would you please go there and verify that information? Because I don't think its a terrible place to live, and no, I dont camp in a 5 star hotel looking for cheap hookers.

As for China vs Taiwan. Sorry, but Taiwan had a LOT of foreign aid. If Taiwan had no foreign aid and restucturing by the United States, I would imagine it would be a pretty poor place to live too. Not to mention the fact that the Nationalists took most all the gold reserves in China to begin with.

Not all aspects of the socialist government sucks. Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the world (look at a UN health care survey). Inherently, most socialist health care is better than their capitalist counterparts.

You do have valid points. The Nationalist party that had control of China prior to 1949 was a corrupt and brutal one.
They were like that in Taiwan until the 1970's or so too, that's where the democratic reforms took place.

However, Mao and the communist were no saints either.
When the communist party took control of China, if you were a land owner, you were executed. And your land is split among the peasants.

1950's, Mao tried the Great Leap Forward; it was more like a great leap backwards. It stunned the growth of China for a good 10, 20 years.
From 1959 to 1962, famine broke out due to the fail harvests caused indirectly by the Great Leap Forward, 30 million chinese peasants died of starvation.

a quote from Dr. Sunan Fang who lived during the early years of communists china :

What are your impressions of how China has changed since your childhood through today?
"During Japanese occupation, we cannot get enough rice. You have to go in the morning at 6 o'clock, long, long, long line, and you probably get only one cup of rice for your whole day."
What about after the Communists came to power?
"We had a very difficult time when our kids were small. Before the Cultural Revolution we had a part-time servant to help us because we didn't have any grandmother to take care of our kids, and we were going to the lab every day. But now, suddenly, you cannot have a servant because this is capitalist."
How did things go after you returned from a year of "re-education" in the country?
"There were a lot of political meetings you have to join; even if you're not interested you have to go, and we wasted a lot of time. During the 10 years of the Cultural Revolution, we wasted at least nine years. Our golden period of research time was just wasted."

And i don't even want to get into human rights either; Tiananmen Square, enough said.

However, economically, China has been on the right track for the past 10 years. Now, only if they can dump that communistic regime they have ....

I believe the fuss of reunification talk is all due to the part of Jiang Zemin. He simply wants to be remembered as the person who reunified all of China. Hong Kong and Macau has been returned to China. Now he wants Taiwan. Too bad there is not one country to give Taiwan to him.

edit** And you statement about foreign aid. After the international community broke ties with Taiwan in order to appease China since the 1970's, I don't think we have ever received any foriegn aid. And most of the economic strides that Taiwan took were after the 1970's **

 

[dexvx]

Maybe they were part of Mao's young red guard? That's not what I hear from old people who escaped from communist China back then. I hear stories of people being persecuted (force fed human feces, kneeling on broken glass, beaten and shot to death, etc...) just for gathering together and practicing a harmless and peaceful religion. I'm glad that the Nationalists left the totalitarian ideals behind. The world would be a much better place without the Chinese Communist government in power.

The old people who escape from Communist Chinese Rural areas are usually land owners. Most land owners treated their peasants very poorly (I'm being conservative here), and when the Communists took country, they struck back (killing a lot, unfortunately some innocent). I'm sure those things happened back then, but I'm also sure it's happened in the American South against blacks, and elsewhere around the world. Does that happen on a regular basis? No. In fact, my Great-Grandfather was a landowner in rural china. He believed in helping the common people and helped the Communists instead of the Nationalists during and before the Civil War.

I suppose you would want a Facist Chinese government instead of a Communist one huh? I'm not saying that would've happened for sure, but from the looks of the highly militaristic Nationalists, it would've been a high probability.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: dexvx
I'm not taiwanese, but a lot of you people need to read up on history. If you were Chinese back in the time of the 1949 Civil War, I'd say 90%+ of you would've sided with the Communists. Why? Go read some books that American military advisers at the time wrote about the Nationalist military/government - Overly corrupt, brutal, etc. If the Nationalists won the Civil War, it would truly be a terrible place to live for a lot of poeple (think right-wing Spain from 1940-1970). Most of the people that fled from Taiwan were rich or fought for the Nationalists, thats why there was a LOT of resentment towards Taiwanese people in the early on.

The Communists actually HELPED a lot of the rural area people. A lot of people are overly critical about the Communist government in china, but the fact of the matter is, it drastically improved the lives of many people. That is why, having talked to older poeple in China, they are really loyal to the Communists. Their lives were utterly miserable (think post-colonial times), and even though the new Communist life is miserable by western standards, it was still a lot better than the post-colonial life.

Yes there was a lot of mistakes on the way and it still needs drastic improvement, but Mainland China turned to an economic disaster zone to a decent place to live in about 50 years. This is WITHOUT the help of the United States/Soviet economy, no loans, no foreign protection, an economic embargo, no money/gold reserves (Nationalists took all the gold reserves as they fled the big cities), alienation from every country on the planet up until 1970, and everything else against it.

Some Chinese people from living in other countries even decided to help out this new government. One of the most famous being a Chinese-American Cal-Tech nuclear physicist who was on the Manhattan Project. He wanted to leave to China and the United States refused to grant him that right (the irony of liberty). He only left after he was traded for an American general POW during the Korean War. He is basically responsible for almost all Chinese nuclear development up until the 80s.

China is a terrible place to live for a lot of people... that's why people leave by the boat load! ... the conclusion is clear... socalistic gov'ment sucks.

Yea there are illegal immigrants, but a terrible place to live? Would you please go there and verify that information? Because I don't think its a terrible place to live, and no, I dont camp in a 5 star hotel looking for cheap hookers.

As for China vs Taiwan. Sorry, but Taiwan had a LOT of foreign aid. If Taiwan had no foreign aid and restucturing by the United States, I would imagine it would be a pretty poor place to live too. Not to mention the fact that the Nationalists took most all the gold reserves in China to begin with.

Not all aspects of the socialist government sucks. Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the world (look at a UN health care survey). Inherently, most socialist health care is better than their capitalist counterparts.

you're forgetting that the United States were the ones that supported and recognized the Nationalists for decades after they lost the civil war. but anywhoo, taiwan recieves very little foreign aid- you'd notice that every bit of military equiptment from the US was bought, and there has yet been a single UN military personnel on the island. In addition, the infrastructure was originally laid out by the japanese, whom designated industrials zones and railways (that are still in operation today), which were carried over even after japan handed over taiwan to china after ruling it for 40 years- so in a way, the economy of the island was already prospering and first rate from the very beginning. this added to the fact that the nationalists composed mainly of scholars and wealthy landowners (that lost everything in coming to taiwan) equaled a recipe for a thriving economy- foreign aid wasn't really a factor.

As for lifestyle in China- i'm sure you are very familiar with all the green, stagnant, mosquito ridden puddles and ghetto rural villages that composes all of china with the small exception of shanghi, beijing, and hong kong. i'd say both side of the striat has plenty of things to improve on, but putting them together would only drag taiwan down.

 

[Pennstate]

So, what's your point? Japan and Germany was in the same boat too. That's one of the reasons why the US is the greatest nation in the world.

His point was that the Mainland has accomplished a lot against all odds. One needs to be objective when talking about history. This Communism --> BAD, Capitalism --> Good is very simplistic. We do not live in a 100% true capitalistic system, we have SOCIAL security, MEDICARE, UNEMPLOYMENT benefits, Disability benefits, import tarrifs...the rich pay taxes, etc..... Mainland China today is NOT COMMUNISM. Communism is a economic system, not a political system. The economic system of China is CAPITALISM!! The political system is better described as a "collective dictatorship". Canada, and in some aspects the USA, is more "Communist" (in its strict definition) than China. Canadians have free health care for ALL. That's not the case in China. There also is NOT unemployment benefit, there is no Social Security benefit, nor medicare in China. I think a good phrase to desribe China is "You are free as long as you don't criticize the government" Or in some case you can openly criticize the government if you are very rich.

Oh btw, the communism government did have a few undeniable accomplishments. It got rid of the Feudalism, it got rid of the warlordism, it got rid of polygamy, it actually was pretty good in terms of gender equality in government jobs, and it got rid of a lot of backwards traditions, i.e. prearranged marriages etc..

 

[dexvx]

I consider Jiang a 2nd generation leader (after the first generation of Mao, which was just hardline Communism). He dont think he will unify China because he doesnt understand Taiwan. More or less, it will take a "newer" generation to unify Taiwan. A generation that looks towards liberal government and one that forgets the Civil War and all the crap thats happened to China since the last emporer.

His Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution was a huge failure. I think few people who didnt go through the experience will know what it was like (back at least to Imperial Chinese times, not just 10-20 years).

And yes, the rural areas are very dismal places to live. That is another problem and it is the infrastucture problem. A lot of Chinese leaders want to look good on the outside, so they pour a lot of resources into the cities (where are the foreigners are) and make them like very modern. This leaves the rural areas not enough money to build up.

 

[prontospyder]

<<I suppose you would want a Facist Chinese government instead of a Communist one huh? I'm not saying that would've happened for sure, but from the looks of the highly militaristic Nationalists, it would've been a high probability. >>

Nope, but I prefer the current Taiwanese government to rule all of China instead of the ones in Beijing right now.

 

[soccerbud34]

double post sorry ...

 

[prontospyder]

<<His point was that the Mainland has accomplished a lot against all odds. >>

Same goes for Japan, Germany, and Taiwan. Many countries were in shambles after WWII.

 

[Pennstate]

Not exactly the same. The others had the Marshall plan.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: prontospyder
<<His point was that the Mainland has accomplished a lot against all odds. >>

Same goes for Japan, Germany, and Taiwan. Many countries were in shambles after WWII.

Yes, but Germany, Japan and Taiwan got lots of help, especially germany and japan.

China did not.


That is his point..that the chinese had to beat much greater ods than these other countries.

 

[prontospyder]

<<Yes, but Germany, Japan and Taiwan got lots of help, especially germany and japan.

China did not.


That is his point..that the chinese had to beat much greater ods than these other countries. >>

Well, China takes in lot's of $ from corporate companies. For example, Taiwanese companies alone have poured hundreds of billions into China. In the meantime, China tries to discourage foreign companies from investing in Taiwan via blackmail, etc...

And I don't even want to go into the mind boggling trade deficit that the US has with China.

 

[alphatarget1]

I think the Taiwanese crime rate skyrocketed after democracy. IMO the Taiwanese government is still filled with corruption today, Chen didn't change any of it.

As someone pointed out, Nationalist (the supposedly "democratic" party) did terrible things with its own people just because they supported the communists. After commies took over, tyranny comes again as Mao started his public persecution of his political enemies and the cultural revolution took place.

West Germany and East Germany reunited peacefully... i hope China and Taiwan as well as the Koreas can do that peacefully, too.

 

[satori]

Cuba's healthcare is ranked as one of the top in the world. They do healthcare for non-profit unlike <cough> HMOs </cough>. An example is that in America, women get ... 1 day? to deliver a baby and go back to work. In Cuba/China, women get about a week off.

Huh? American women only get 1 day off? My manager had a kid and was out for 2 months, and she could've stayed out for another month, but is coming in half-days now.

 

[chuckieland]

to clarify something
there are extreme independantist who's opinion does not speak for all taiwanese
even thought they think that's what tw want.
there are about 20-30% of people in TW that want independant, and call it Republic of Taiwan. which is not recongize by the world, and even the Taiwanese government doesn't recongize it.
rest of 79-80% of people in tw just want to stay the same or unify.(which mean NO to independant)
If you read some of thread carefuly, you'll know who the extreme independantist are?
there are those who twist the wording to make other see in their point of view.(same as Lie)
1.ALL TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF PEOPLE REPUBLIC OF CHINA
2.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN
3.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELF "REPUBLIC OF CHINA"

I see alot of people leave out the "second and third point"
and if there are election about independance now. Independance WILL CERTAIN LOSE
that is why we have not seem an Indenpendance electron in Taiwan YET. (consider right now is indenpendance party in power)
Last electrion resoult
Chen from Indenpendance Party 39% (current President of Republic of China)
Soong from self representive 38% -favorite of unification
leung from nationalist party 23%- favoirte of unification
indenpendance vote 39%
unification vote 61%
but the extreme indenpendance party call that majority of people in tw want independance
FOR ALL OF YOU KNOW. TW IS VERY CORRUP. THIS RESOULT IS THE WORK OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF R.O.C, MR. LEE WHO BACKSTAB HIS OWN PARTY.
1. THERE USED TO BE A LAW, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE 50% OR GREATER VOTE TO WIN THE ELECTION. LEE CHANGE THAT, BECAUSE HE KNOW THE INDENPENDANCE PARTY WILL NEVER GET ANYWAY NEAR THAT 50% MARK.
2. SOONG AND LEUNG ARE FROM THE SAME NATIONALIST PARTY, IT'S LEE THAT PUSH SOONG OUT OF NATIONALIST PARTY. SO THAT INCREASE CHEN'S CHANCE OF WINNING THE ELECTION.
(the election resoult could of been 61% and 39% in favorite of nationalist.)
AS YOU CAN SEE WITHOUT LEE, CHEN NEVER HAS A CHANCE.

 

[soccerbud34]

Originally posted by: kenleung
I think the Taiwanese crime rate skyrocketed after democracy. IMO the Taiwanese government is still filled with corruption today, Chen didn't change any of it.

Alrhough Taiwan does have its fair share of corruption and crime, however, is is not as bad as you make it sound to be.

For example, according to 2001 Global Corruption Report, here are the rankings of Taiwan, China and few other countries for comparison.

(higher the rankings, less the corruption)

Finland: 1
Singapore: 4
Hong Kong:14
US:16
Japan:21
Taiwan:27
South Korea:42
China, Argentina:57

here is a link to the Global Corruption Report

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: chuckieland
to clarify something
there are extreme independantist who's opinion does not speak for all taiwanese
even thought they think that's what tw want.
there are about 20-30% of people in TW that want independant, and call it Republic of Taiwan. which is not recongize by the world, and even the Taiwanese government doesn't recongize it.
rest of 79-80% of people in tw just want to stay the same or unify.(which mean NO to independant)
If you read some of thread carefuly, you'll know who the extreme independantist are?
there are those who twist the wording to make other see in their point of view.(same as Lie)
1.ALL TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF PEOPLE REPUBLIC OF CHINA
2.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN
3.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELF "REPUBLIC OF CHINA"

I see alot of people leave out the "second and third point"
and if there are election about independance now. Independance WILL CERTAIN LOSE
that is why we have not seem an Indenpendance electron in Taiwan YET. (consider right now is indenpendance party in power)
Last electrion resoult
Chen from Indenpendance Party 39% (current President of Republic of China)
Soong from self representive 38% -favorite of unification
leung from nationalist party 23%- favoirte of unification
indenpendance vote 39%
unification vote 61%
but the extreme indenpendance party call that majority of people in tw want independance
FOR ALL OF YOU KNOW. TW IS VERY CORRUP. THIS RESOULT IS THE WORK OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF R.O.C, MR. LEE WHO BACKSTAB HIS OWN PARTY.
1. THERE USED TO BE A LAW, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE 50% OR GREATER VOTE TO WIN THE ELECTION. LEE CHANGE THAT, BECAUSE HE KNOW THE INDENPENDANCE PARTY WILL NEVER GET ANYWAY NEAR THAT 50% MARK.
2. SOONG AND LEUNG ARE FROM THE SAME NATIONALIST PARTY, IT'S LEE THAT PUSH SOONG OUT OF NATIONALIST PARTY. SO THAT INCREASE CHEN'S CHANCE OF WINNING THE ELECTION.
(the election resoult could of been 61% and 39% in favorite of nationalist.)
AS YOU CAN SEE WITHOUT LEE, CHEN NEVER HAS A CHANCE.

yes, chuckieland is absolutely right. i remember right after the election there were MANY people from taiwan who were angered by this elelction result. it was completely due to the corruption in the political system in taiwan. if you didnt understand what he posted, reread, he has some very important points that were really obvious during and after the election.

 

[soccerbud34]

Originally posted by: chuckieland
to clarify something
there are extreme independantist who's opinion does not speak for all taiwanese
even thought they think that's what tw want.
there are about 20-30% of people in TW that want independant, and call it Republic of Taiwan. which is not recongize by the world, and even the Taiwanese government doesn't recongize it.
rest of 79-80% of people in tw just want to stay the same or unify.(which mean NO to independant)
If you read some of thread carefuly, you'll know who the extreme independantist are?
there are those who twist the wording to make other see in their point of view.(same as Lie)
1.ALL TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF PEOPLE REPUBLIC OF CHINA
2.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN
3.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELF "REPUBLIC OF CHINA"

I see alot of people leave out the "second and third point"
and if there are election about independance now. Independance WILL CERTAIN LOSE
that is why we have not seem an Indenpendance electron in Taiwan YET. (consider right now is indenpendance party in power)
Last electrion resoult
Chen from Indenpendance Party 39% (current President of Republic of China)
Soong from self representive 38% -favorite of unification
leung from nationalist party 23%- favoirte of unification
indenpendance vote 39%
unification vote 61%
but the extreme indenpendance party call that majority of people in tw want independance
FOR ALL OF YOU KNOW. TW IS VERY CORRUP. THIS RESOULT IS THE WORK OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF R.O.C, MR. LEE WHO BACKSTAB HIS OWN PARTY.
1. THERE USED TO BE A LAW, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE 50% OR GREATER VOTE TO WIN THE ELECTION. LEE CHANGE THAT, BECAUSE HE KNOW THE INDENPENDANCE PARTY WILL NEVER GET ANYWAY NEAR THAT 50% MARK.
2. SOONG AND LEUNG ARE FROM THE SAME NATIONALIST PARTY, IT'S LEE THAT PUSH SOONG OUT OF NATIONALIST PARTY. SO THAT INCREASE CHEN'S CHANCE OF WINNING THE ELECTION.
(the election resoult could of been 61% and 39% in favorite of nationalist.)
AS YOU CAN SEE WITHOUT LEE, CHEN NEVER HAS A CHANCE.

Ahh ... someone's caps lock is stucked i see

Anyways, here is the figures i saw of a survey conducted 3 days ago ...

20% favors an urgent Taiwan independence
12% favors an eventual Taiwan independence (independence sometime down the road, but not now)
8% favors an urgent reunification
17% favors an eventual reunification (maintain status quo as of now, but eventually, Taiwan and China will reunify)
25% favors the status quo as of now, non-independant but not reunification either.

for those of you who can read chinese (Big 5), here is the llink

edit** as the figure to the question of one country, 2 rules (sorry for the bad translation) 24% are for and 57% against **

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: soccerbud34

Originally posted by: chuckieland
to clarify something
there are extreme independantist who's opinion does not speak for all taiwanese
even thought they think that's what tw want.
there are about 20-30% of people in TW that want independant, and call it Republic of Taiwan. which is not recongize by the world, and even the Taiwanese government doesn't recongize it.
rest of 79-80% of people in tw just want to stay the same or unify.(which mean NO to independant)
If you read some of thread carefuly, you'll know who the extreme independantist are?
there are those who twist the wording to make other see in their point of view.(same as Lie)
1.ALL TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF PEOPLE REPUBLIC OF CHINA
2.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELF REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN
3.MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELF "REPUBLIC OF CHINA"

I see alot of people leave out the "second and third point"
and if there are election about independance now. Independance WILL CERTAIN LOSE
that is why we have not seem an Indenpendance electron in Taiwan YET. (consider right now is indenpendance party in power)
Last electrion resoult
Chen from Indenpendance Party 39% (current President of Republic of China)
Soong from self representive 38% -favorite of unification
leung from nationalist party 23%- favoirte of unification
indenpendance vote 39%
unification vote 61%
but the extreme indenpendance party call that majority of people in tw want independance
FOR ALL OF YOU KNOW. TW IS VERY CORRUP. THIS RESOULT IS THE WORK OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF R.O.C, MR. LEE WHO BACKSTAB HIS OWN PARTY.
1. THERE USED TO BE A LAW, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE 50% OR GREATER VOTE TO WIN THE ELECTION. LEE CHANGE THAT, BECAUSE HE KNOW THE INDENPENDANCE PARTY WILL NEVER GET ANYWAY NEAR THAT 50% MARK.
2. SOONG AND LEUNG ARE FROM THE SAME NATIONALIST PARTY, IT'S LEE THAT PUSH SOONG OUT OF NATIONALIST PARTY. SO THAT INCREASE CHEN'S CHANCE OF WINNING THE ELECTION.
(the election resoult could of been 61% and 39% in favorite of nationalist.)
AS YOU CAN SEE WITHOUT LEE, CHEN NEVER HAS A CHANCE.

Ahh ... someone's caps lock is stucked i see

Anyways, here is the figures i saw of a survey conducted 3 days ago ...

20% favors an urgent Taiwan independence
12% favors an eventual Taiwan independence (independence sometime down the road, but not now)
8% favors an urgent reunification
17% favors an eventual reunification (maintain status quo as of now, but eventually, Taiwan and China will reunify)
25% favors the status quo as of now, non-independant but not reunification either.

for those of you who can read chinese (Big 5), here is the llink

edit** as the figure to the question of one country, 2 rules (sorry for the bad translation) 24% are for and 57% against **

i hate the idea of one country 2 system (whatever you want to call it). It's pointless to have 2 different system in a country. China must become democratic before any unification, force is definitely not an option.

BTW, some interesting facts from the interview: they successfully interviewed 885 adults, 307 declined interview. Does it mean the 307 who declined didn't care what was going on?