Do the Illuminati exist?!

[1prophet]

Everything you wanted to know about freemasonry, Illuminati, secret organizations, etc. but were afraid to ask.


The New Atlantis - Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMhkf5mAGgA

 

[Sinsear]

Lol, op is a fool

 

[Doppel]

No to any meaningful degree, no. Considering every government gets hit with scandal from time to time, even the most powerful ones, it stretches belief to think some super secret order of people exists and yet the only time they are ever exposed are by people on infowars.com and similar sites (i.e. whackos).

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I always thought that the "all seeing eye" was derived from the "eye of the providence" and would not fit in with the Illuminati.

 

[HAL9000]

Yes, it seems that some do that.

Fair enough.

My guess is that if the Illuminati exists now it's similar to the Masons in that the history of it is interesting, but today it's really just a social club.

Yeah that makes sense, is that just an educated guess?

What are you seeking comment about? Can you summarize your question?

In summary I'm asking: Do you believe in the existence of (the modern notion of) the Illuminati, and if so, what draws you to that conclusion?

 

[HAL9000]

hi im on my phone so no proofs atm HAL,, but if you sawed the amounts of horus eyes on mmovie dvd covers in the last 50 years, your would blow ur top, heh maybe you need a new eye of ur own if you havent seen any.......?????? whats the point of the question though hmmmmmmmmmm? your are just trying to mock us '"truthers'"'?

I have no intention of mocking anyone, someone put this question to me the other day (I won't mention a name) and now I'm looking for some clarification, perhaps from someone more knowledgeable on the subject....

neckbeard--your friend is crazy.

Or... very misguided.

That is not to say that long-running secret societies do not exist and, while some of them likely do have very absurd power bases, I think the conspiracies surrounding these--controlling religion, money, government, blah blah blah whatever--is frankly just a bunch of horse dung.

Conspiracy theories rely on inevitability. They work on the weak-minded because the base arguments sound true and plausible enough to anyone, because they are. The problem is that linking them all into one massive conspiracy just for the sake of proving an expected outcome, is precisely why they become inherently implausible...well, to educated people, anyway.

It seems as though you are of the same opinion I am, agreed on almost all bases. I'm just looking to hear from someone well versed in the subject who can perhaps help my friend out, with what seems like a very poorly thought out theory / argument. He tends to get irritated when I press him, so I'm looking for someone who can explain to me from a believers point of view, whilst keeping a level head.

Alien reptilian shapeshifters? No.

A kabal of men who influence world politics? Maybe...

The alien perspective is one I'm yet to read into.

 

[HAL9000]

Honestly, I think there are some people who believe they are, but the reality is that they don't have the type of control they think they do.

You refer to "they" as an existent entity, am I to infer from this that you believe in them to some degree or other?

Short answer; No.

Long answer; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Could you expanded on your longer answer?

Thank you Merchant

You truly are my greatest ally

That may well make his day.

:wub:

 

[HAL9000]

Many proofs, very worfied.

What is proofs? I want be worified!

I have no idea if the illuminati is now, or ever has been anything real. My understanding is that the term did refer to an actual group at some point in the past, but whether that group was anything like what people envision now when they say the word, I don't know and I doubt it.

Here's what I do know: whether there is an illuminati, a new world order, or not - there is a systematic destruction of western civilization going on from within. I believe that 99% of those who are key to this process are doing it believing completely that they are doing good. And that they are completely unaware of the consequences. In other words, idealistic naifs. Could there be a small group at the top who are engineering all of this for malevolent reasons? I have no idea. I would tend to think it's more likely that the naivety extends all the way to the top, but becomes increasingly mixed with greed as you enter the upper echelons.

This doesn't really require some group of men in a mansion somewhere in black cloaks scheming. Short-sightedness, selfishness, and greed at the top with utopian naivety for the rest are probably more than sufficient to explain it.

I truly hope that it is not deliberate, because if it's something we've just been stupidly stumbling toward, there's a better chance we can wake up and reverse it. Whereas if it's a deliberate, orchestrated destruction, they will very effectively suppress any corrective backlash until the point where such a backlash could no longer remedy it anyway.

I'm inclined to agree, I'm sure that there are some of the super rich, powerful people on the planet, who on occasion will discuss world events and endeavour to bring about favorable outcomes through their power and influence, with some notion of the greater good behind their motives, but a group of "Satan worshiping" people who conspire together and have done over decades, dictating the course of world politics... I'm not so sure.

 

[HAL9000]

Everything you wanted to know about freemasonry, Illuminati, secret organizations, etc. but were afraid to ask.


The New Atlantis - Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMhkf5mAGgA

Next time I have a spare 3 hours, I'll watch 20 minutes of it.

Lol, op is a fool

Or is he.... ()

No to any meaningful degree, no. Considering every government gets hit with scandal from time to time, even the most powerful ones, it stretches belief to think some super secret order of people exists and yet the only time they are ever exposed are by people on infowars.com and similar sites (i.e. whackos).

Yarp. Preaching to the choir.

 

[Jaskalas]

THE ALL SEEING EYE!

Yeah... there are even two of them in every mirror! The Illuminati are everywhere! :awe:

 

[cyclohexane]

No. The real shady groups are Goldman Sachs et al.

 

[Moonbeam]

H: In summary I'm asking: Do you believe in the existence of (the modern notion of) the Illuminati, and if so, what draws you to that conclusion?

M: Thank you. I know nothing about it. I caught the picture of the eye on they pyramid which obviously is rather an old symbol of something or other I have thought about. I believe that people who know the truth would suffer a worse fate than I do at the hands of this forum if hands could extend through the internet, and that in the past anybody who knew anything would have to exercise caution, secret societies and the like. I also know that the truth itself is a secret that hides in plain sight behind the fact that it is instantly dismissed as an impossibility.

Judging from the pretentiousness of the name, Illuminati, however, I conclude they would not want me, a member of the Society of Fools.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I have no idea if the illuminati is now, or ever has been anything real. My understanding is that the term did refer to an actual group at some point in the past, but whether that group was anything like what people envision now when they say the word, I don't know and I doubt it.

Here's what I do know: whether there is an illuminati, a new world order, or not - there is a systematic destruction of western civilization going on from within. I believe that 99% of those who are key to this process are doing it believing completely that they are doing good. And that they are completely unaware of the consequences. In other words, idealistic naifs. Could there be a small group at the top who are engineering all of this for malevolent reasons? I have no idea. I would tend to think it's more likely that the naivety extends all the way to the top, but becomes increasingly mixed with greed as you enter the upper echelons.

This doesn't really require some group of men in a mansion somewhere in black cloaks scheming. Short-sightedness, selfishness, and greed at the top with utopian naivety for the rest are probably more than sufficient to explain it.

I truly hope that it is not deliberate, because if it's something we've just been stupidly stumbling toward, there's a better chance we can wake up and reverse it. Whereas if it's a deliberate, orchestrated destruction, they will very effectively suppress any corrective backlash until the point where such a backlash could no longer remedy it anyway.

It's good to know that you have soooo much concern. It's good to be concerned because, you know, concern is a good thing to have.

So, please, continue to be concerned.

 

[Fern]

No to any meaningful degree, no. Considering every government gets hit with scandal from time to time, even the most powerful ones, it stretches belief to think some super secret order of people exists and yet the only time they are ever exposed are by people on infowars.com and similar sites (i.e. whackos).

I don't know anything about the Illuminati. But the very very wealthy and powerful I have on rare occasion come into contact with were not people who had a public face like those you refer to who fall into scandal.

These people stayed well behind the scenes. Through the use of trusts and such their wealth remains largely unknown and they've never popped up on any lists like the Forbes Wealthiest 100 etc.

Fern

 

[DigDog]

the answers are both yes and no.

(secret) collaborations between rich people are a fact. they imagine themselves to be of a higher order, and historically, humans have even quantified such unions with names, structures, organizations.

But this is consequential behaviour - to assume they set out to purposefully create this, is wrong .. statistically.
Such an operation is above the complexity which people can muster, and these patterns only appear when examining huge swathes of population.

Unless you believe that a bunch of bankers can be intimate friends with say, five million people, all individually.

Then sure, rosacrux all the way.

 

[TeeJay1952]

If there is a conspiracy that rules the world, then why would they manipulate us. They already rule the world. (and own it)