Do the FX chips really have a bug in them?

[Arachnotronic]

So, I need to do a build for a client. He's heard all about these 8 core FX processors and he wants one. He doesn't care about benchmark data or anything like that. He just wants to be the first on his block with an "8 core CPU".

That's fine. I'll build it, no problem. However, I have to know if these FX chips are actually as buggy as I've been reading. If this is the case, then I will refuse to do the build (assuming my client does not want to give up "8 COREZ")

 

[zlejedi]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1645506

 

[Idontcare]

To my knowledge there hasn't been any credible in-depth assessments published on the big-name sites (akin to the TLB bug debacle) so at best you will have anecdotal observations to go on.

I'd say give the customer what he thinks he wants. Let him decide for himself whether he chose wisely.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yeah, I saw that, which is why I do *not* want to touch these FX chips.

@IDC, I don't mind building it, but I don't want to be doing a lot of unnecessary and/or expensive tech support for this machine -- because I pay for replacements for broken components out of pocket (I run my little PC Biz out of my college dorm).

I think I'll try to talk him into a Phenom II X6 on AM3+...that way he gets "moar corez" and if he wants to upgrade to FX once the bugs are ironed out of these chips.

 

[apoppin]

To my knowledge there hasn't been any credible in-depth assessments published on the big-name sites (akin to the TLB bug debacle) so at best you will have anecdotal observations to go on.

I'd say give the customer what he thinks he wants. Let him decide for himself whether he chose wisely.

The issues that i had with FX-8150 centered around DE:HR and Shogun II - both Steam (and Gaming Evolved) games. They would crash upon launch and even BSoD the PC. No issues with a Phenom II 980 BE in the same ASUS AM3+CrossHair V MB. One other site confirmed this and AMD said that it was a Steam issue.

i currently have no issues with a Phenom II in that same AM3+ MB (i am working on a HyperThreading in PC Gaming article about Core i3-2105 vs Ph II X4). Since there is a new Catalyst driver and numerous updates to the Steam platform and these games, i will try it again with my FX-8150 later this week when i watercool it.

 

[formulav8]

To my knowledge there hasn't been any credible in-depth assessments published on the big-name sites (akin to the TLB bug debacle) so at best you will have anecdotal observations to go on.

I'd say give the customer what he thinks he wants. Let him decide for himself whether he chose wisely.

Yeah that tlb bug was so bad that it was never seen in the real world. :whiste: Way overhyped. The initial so-called fix was worse than the minute chance to hit the tlb bug.

Build the guy the system if he wants it. He won't run into any real bd based 'bugs', especially if he is just a typical computer user. Any bug out there would likely be related to performance than bsods and probably not directly cpu errata. Just build him what he wants with the agreement that it is brand new tech, ect... and you may have some teething issues. Thats all I do with all of my customers when they want the bleeding edge. Out of the many computers i've built I can't really recall a refund demand or anything from a buggy cpu/computer :\

 

[nanaki333]

i got to use my fx-8150 for not even a day. half the cores were bad out of the box when tested on an asrock & msi mobo (AMD 970 chipset AM3+)

 

[jhu]

So, I need to do a build for a client. He's heard all about these 8 core FX processors and he wants one. He doesn't care about benchmark data or anything like that. He just wants to be the first on his block with an "8 core CPU".

That's fine. I'll build it, no problem. However, I have to know if these FX chips are actually as buggy as I've been reading. If this is the case, then I will refuse to do the build (assuming my client does not want to give up "8 COREZ")

What is this person's budget? Looking on Amazon, a dual hexcore Opteron with dual socket motherboard can be had for a bit less than $800.

 

[Phynaz]

Yeah that tlb bug was so bad that it was never seen in the real world. :whiste:

Yeah, it was so bad they didn't spend 10's of millions on an emergency respin. :whiste:

 

[LoneNinja]

Yeah, it was so bad they didn't spend 10's of millions on an emergency respin. :whiste:

It was a bug that 99.9% of desktop applications would never be effected by, but server work loads were effected.

I'm still seeing reports of people who bought an FX cpu on launch, it was DOA, and they're still waiting for the RMA because AMD has none in stock. If he wants the most cores why doesn't he just get a 12 core opteron, he clearly doesn't care about per core performance if he simply wants the most cores. lol

 

[dma0991]

I'd say give what he wants, if he wants moar cores instead of more performance then so be it. It is his money at the end of the day and the customer is always right principal applies. You could try explain to him the problems that might happen if he is going with a BD build.

If he still strongly insist that he wants 8 moar cores then make him sign the black and white disclaimer stating that you're not responsible for any problems related to BD that might occur and the person who wants it fully understands the implications of his decision.

 

[formulav8]

Yeah, it was so bad they didn't spend 10's of millions on an emergency respin. :whiste:

Yeah that respin didn't allow time for other errata fixes, yield improvements, and clockspeed improvements. And so many people had that nasty tlb bug blow up their computer as well. :whiste:

 

[Arachnotronic]

Talked him out of it. We're going with a Phenom II X4. *phew*

 

[nenforcer]

Talked him out of it. We're going with a Phenom II X4. *phew*

Smart Move. Just make sure you get him an AM3+ motherboard and you can sell them on an upgrade path to the FX Piledriver early next year.

 

[tulx]

All of the reported problems are with games launching through Steam. Means it is an incompatability issue which will probably be fixed quite soon.
FX might not be as fast as a lot of people wished it to be, but that shouldn't be a reason to proclaim it bugged and otherwise broken.
I wouldn't rely on Forum post for CPU errata analysis.

 

[nanaki333]

All of the reported problems are with games launching through Steam. Means it is an incompatability issue which will probably be fixed quite soon.
FX might not be as fast as a lot of people wished it to be, but that shouldn't be a reason to proclaim it bugged and otherwise broken.
I wouldn't rely on Forum post for CPU errata analysis.

while a lot of forum posts are true, you are correct in that you should not rely on them for the analysis. the most vocal folks are the ones that have problems. so even 1 person rings really loud.

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah that respin didn't allow time for other errata fixes, yield improvements, and clockspeed improvements. And so many people had that nasty tlb bug blow up their computer as well. :whiste:

Unless you work for AMD's RMA dept, what you don't know is how widespread the problem was for AMD's customers. You have your opinion of it and that is all.

Meanwhile, AMD had their data along with their customer reports. Based on their facts, not opinion and speculation, they decided spending millions on a respin to address the bug versus spending those millions to improve performance was the best path forward.

Surely you can see how absurd it is that you would hold yourself out as knowing more about the depth and magnitude of the issue than AMD?

Evidently, despite what you think to be true or false about the TLB situation, AMD's decision (made with the benefit of actual data on the impact to customers) suggests they had their reasons for doing what they did.

You might never know their reasons, just as you might never know the true extent of the customer impact caused by the TLB bug, but you do know that a company felt it was a necessary step and that alone is very telling.

 

[nanaki333]

Unless you work for AMD's RMA dept, what you don't know is how widespread the problem was for AMD's customers. You have your opinion of it and that is all.

Meanwhile, AMD had their data along with their customer reports. Based on their facts, not opinion and speculation, they decided spending millions on a respin to address the bug versus spending those millions to improve performance was the best path forward.

Surely you can see how absurd it is that you would hold yourself out as knowing more about the depth and magnitude of the issue than AMD?

Evidently, despite what you think to be true or false about the TLB situation, AMD's decision (made with the benefit of actual data on the impact to customers) suggests they had their reasons for doing what they did.

You might never know their reasons, just as you might never know the true extent of the customer impact caused by the TLB bug, but you do know that a company felt it was a necessary step and that alone is very telling.

you know, being an avid early adopter of everything, i had an issue with my original phenom 9500. it would lock up and bsod running at stock clocks. i had to take it down to 2ghz from 2.2ghz for it to be stable.

 

[tulx]

you know, being an avid early adopter of everything, i had an issue with my original phenom 9500.

In an industry that tends to screw things up as often as the PC/games industry, early adoption hardly ever pays off... You very rarely hear of car manufacturers saying "oops, the car we just released doesn't work, we were too busy picking our noses and didn't ever test-drive it, nvmnd, we'll patch it sooner or later".

I like the idea behind FX - the Bulldozer architecture works very well on paper, and it most likely will work as good in reality...just not today - maybe in a few months, maybe a year. Which is why I'll wait with upgrading.

PS - and I'd find it terribly uninspiring to just buy a 2500k like everyone else and his dog has done. When PC building becomes a hobby, one cares for more than just benchmark scores.

 

[bryanW1995]

In an industry that tends to screw things up as often as the PC/games industry, early adoption hardly ever pays off... You very rarely hear of car manufacturers saying "oops, the car we just released doesn't work, we were too busy picking our noses and didn't ever test-drive it, nvmnd, we'll patch it sooner or later".

I like the idea behind FX - the Bulldozer architecture works very well on paper, and it most likely will work as good in reality...just not today - maybe in a few months, maybe a year. Which is why I'll wait with upgrading.

PS - and I'd find it terribly uninspiring to just buy a 2500k like everyone else and his dog has done. When PC building becomes a hobby, one cares for more than just benchmark scores.

Well, I also care for how fast my computer is in real world usage. And I can say based upon personal experience that an i7 cpu is significantly faster in everything that I do, from office apps to games, DC, surfing the internet, spreadsheets, etc etc etc. Most of us are hobbyists who also want top performance and don't want to break the bank with the power bill, so AMD's best bet is to get one out of three. That's not enough for me to stay with them.

 

[12andy]

PS - and I'd find it terribly uninspiring to just buy a 2500k like everyone else and his dog has done. When PC building becomes a hobby, one cares for more than just benchmark scores.

Agreed.

It seems the trend is spawning out of spite nowadays, and I can't help but chuckle inside when people claim FX/ AMD/ etc. is crap, followed by a screenshot of a benched result at 1024x768.

The childish outrage is a bit disconcerning, IMO.

 

[podspi]

In an industry that tends to screw things up as often as the PC/games industry, early adoption hardly ever pays off... You very rarely hear of car manufacturers saying "oops, the car we just released doesn't work, we were too busy picking our noses and didn't ever test-drive it, nvmnd, we'll patch it sooner or later".

I like the idea behind FX - the Bulldozer architecture works very well on paper, and it most likely will work as good in reality...just not today - maybe in a few months, maybe a year. Which is why I'll wait with upgrading.

PS - and I'd find it terribly uninspiring to just buy a 2500k like everyone else and his dog has done. When PC building becomes a hobby, one cares for more than just benchmark scores.

Then why skip the first gen? Seems like that'd be more fun as a hobby if not as useful in daily usage :biggrin:

I probably will pick up an AM3+ board + FX-8xxx if there are decent sales during black friday... because why not? I really just want to see how high an overclock I can get w/out having to worry about spending a ton of money if I blow it up... ATM it is priced too high for that, but once the supply issues are worked out, I expect the prices will drop.

 

[formulav8]

Unless you work for AMD's RMA dept, what you don't know is how widespread the problem was for AMD's customers. You have your opinion of it and that is all.

Meanwhile, AMD had their data along with their customer reports. Based on their facts, not opinion and speculation, they decided spending millions on a respin to address the bug versus spending those millions to improve performance was the best path forward.

The respin did more than just fix the bug. It was also for public image to fix it. It increased yields and especially clockspeed. The B3 respin got them up to 9950 models unlike B2 and 3ghz+ oc's. So from My pov, they were able to do more than just scramble to fix a bug only respin. B3 was coming anyways. It was in their best interest to fix it in the new revision. If you remember it was found out in-house not because 10000 customers were complaining. And of course they are going to fix errata that they deem as needing fixed. Internal testing have showed that its in their best interest to fix it.

Again, my opinion, I Never claimed I have inside info or anything. If you don't agree, thats fine. I am just going by what the new respin brought aside from the TLB bug fix.

And since neither of us truly knows the entire story, its only opinion based on some evidence anyways.

So in the end, My opinion is: It was a majorly overblown bug. Thats all. Again just opinion. I'm also pretty much done with this thread. PM would be ok.

Looks like he didn't get a buggy BD afterall.

 

[formulav8]

Talked him out of it. We're going with a Phenom II X4. *phew*

You should have at least got him an x6 :hmm:

 

[nanaki333]

You should have at least got him an x6 :hmm:

if he got him a thuban x4 then he's still good to go