Do the Dell cases conform to the ATX standard?

[Konig]

I was thinking of buying a Dell computer since they are so cheap, but I want a system that I can upgrade when the time comes. I have a Dell at work and am really impressed with the case. It's quiet, and opens easily. I just don't want to buy a case I'll have t throw away in a year when I want to upgrade the mobo. I'm looking at buying the 4500 that has had a lot of special prices lately. Does it or any of the other towers used in Dell systems comform to the ATX standard?

Thanks,
Konig

 

[DongTran]

No at least not with Optiplex GX150 and GX240s

 

[Jhhnn]

Any compliance with atx standards is strictly a matter of convenience for Dell. Even if the box will accept a standard board, the psu pinouts would need to be modified to work, otherwise bzzerrtt-poof.

A Dell is a Dell, not an ATX compliant IBM compatible PC. If you're serious about upgradeability, start with something else. I'm not really sure how valid the concept really is, anymore. With prices falling and hardware changing almost daily, it's tough to say what might be truly feasible/cost effective down the road. Probably smarter to just get something new when the time comes, keep the old box as a spare.....

 

[Neuroanatomist]

Dell definitely has a different powersupply pin-out spec than standard ATX. I once saw a special adapter that you could get to convert from Dell powersupply to standard pinouts.

..but it would probably be better/easier to just replace the Dell powersupply and MB with a standard ATX one when you upgrade.

I do agree that Dell's cases are better engineered than most (even though they are out of spec)

 

[mechBgon]

The popular Antec and Antec-clone cases would be a good alternative if you decide to build your own system. They have good airflow characteristics, so you can use very quiet fans and still have effective cooling. In fact, just a pair of ~20dB exhaust fans in the rear would work fine for a typical system. Just pick a quiet power supply and a quiet-running CPU heatsink/fan unit, and you should be set.

As long as I'm rambling on, if you wanted to build a quiet office PC:

• Antec PerformancePlus 860 (beige with no side fan to make noise) and TruePower 330W PSU
• Asus A7N266-VM (microATX nForce board, no fan, no noise, onboard video plus an AGP slot, onboard high-performance audio with S/PDIF, onboard high-performance LAN)
• AthlonXP 1800+
• Alpha PAL8045 heatsink
• Seagate Barracuda ATA IV hard drive
• Sony DVD or CD drive
• Floppy drive
• Memory (duh)
• and three quiet 80mm fans, one for the Alpha heatsink and two for the exhaust positions in the case. I know they're not cheap, but some of the Papst fans would be a nice touch if you really want to take things to the extreme (12dB/19cfm or 19db/26cfm, ~$20 each)

You could brew up an equivalent Pentium4 rig too, with an Alpha 8942. I'm betting it would still come in quite a bit less than Dell, although you won't get a bundle deal on Office with it.

edit: the stock Antec fans would get sidelined in my scheme above, since they would probably be the loudest thing in the system. The vented front of the case is so free-flowing that the two exhaust fans are not really going to need help from additional intake fans.

 

[ElFenix]

the PS pinout is not ATX spec and the front plate connector is not spec. i've seen the diagram of what pin on the PS is what, so you should just be able to pull the pins and put them in a new order. you could follow the leads from the power switch, or make up your own, to convert them.

used to be that palo alto products sold those cases seperately (it was review on anandtech here) but they've been bought by flextronics (the makers of the xbox) and i don't know if dell still sources cases from them or not.

 

[Konig]

So the PSU pinout the only difference? The reason I'm so hot on a Dell is becauseI can get it for cheaper than I build a system for my self.

 

[mechBgon]

Here's Dell's own explaination, you be the judge:

DURING THE WEEK we've run a number of stories about the upgradability, or otherwise of Dell PCs.
The company has now provided us with its official position on this in the form of the following statement:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Dell does not make generic ATX boxes - this is well known throughout the industry. Customers that would be affected by this are up graders, and the reality is that only a very small percentage of users will actually attempt this type of upgrade. We have made many improvements to the original ATX standard to meet the growing needs of customers over time. Companies like Intel are helping to drive an industry standard specification surrounding this.

Dell is catering for its customers needs by using components that keep prices low so the majority who do not upgrade get a better price. We made changes to better the product not to simply reduce costs, but to improve quality and reliability levels as well as to help meet regulatory requirements in certain instances.

MOTHERBOARDS AND POWER SUPPLIES
Background
* In the mid 90s the industry moved to a higher use of 3.3V motherboard components
* Dell engineers designed a connector that supported the increased use of 3.3V current which differed from the industry proposed designs that we deemed less than robust
* The decision to move to this new connector was based solely on the impact to quality and reliability of the system
* Additionally, Dell's motherboards have custom form factors to optimise for the best cooling solutions, emissions control, and for quick and easy serviceability

The Situation Today
* All Dell desktop motherboards now in production support the industry standard ATX connector but the motherboard form factor will continue to be custom and optimised for each chassis.

* Customers with older generation platforms that use the custom connectors will still have to buy parts from Dell if they want to upgrade. We recommend that they buy parts from Dell in all cases so that they can be assured that they have parts that have been tested with the systems. This helps meet the quality, reliability, regulatory, safety, and performance standards that we have set when developing the product.

* Some OEMs deviate from the ATX standard but it is not our place to comment directly about our competitor's products.

Recommendations for Users
* It is recommended that only Dell power supplies be used with Dell systems as it protects the efforts of Dell engineers to meet electrical, regulatory, environmental and safety concerns.

DELL'S CHASSIS IMPROVEMENTS
* Dell has made many improvements to the original ATX standard to meet the growing needs of the customers over time which include:

* Changing the power connector by adding additional 3.3V lines to handle higher current loads as system demands increased

* Modifying the motherboard dimensions to allow for the most efficient way for service and support personnel to remove and replace a faulty board

* Changing the orientation of the memory modules, processor socket, and other high temperature components by 90 degrees to allow for better front to back airflow

* Modifying the cooling solutions to accommodate a rear chassis fan to pull air across the processor versus the standard ATX specification that had air pulled through the power supply

* Eliminating the large collection of individual wires that had to be manually connected for front panel lights and buttons with a single ribbon cable (separate two wire cables could still be used and plugged into the individual pins of the new connector on the board simply for legacy support).

Copyright 2002 Dell Computer Corporation. All rights reserved. Dell disclaims any proprietary interest in the marks and names of others.

I think the cheapest way to buy, is to buy the right thing the first time. Get a Dell, with a proprietary

250-watt

PSU and a proprietary motherboard, and you're golden, as long as it keeps working and you don't want to change boards or PSU's. Better factor in the $180 3-year extended warranty, dude.

If you care to specify your budget, I bet we could come up with something that competes with what Dell has to offer. If you do, don't forget to say what operating system and software suite (if any) you want. Keep in mind that if you're heading back to school and just need word processing and basic spreadsheet/database/email capabilities, then MS Works Suite 2002 may be just the ticket (it comes with full-version MS Word 2002, just like in OfficeXP). Or there's the MS Office For Students & Teachers if you need full-blown Access, Excel and Outlook too.

 

[Konig]

Well, I guess Dell knows best...heh. Thanks mechBgon. That was some great info.

Actually, I've been thinking about it and, while I hate the thought of throwing anything away, I realize that it won't be for a long while. The system I buy will eventually be handed down to the kids and will be in use for many years. When it does grow too long in the tooth, I can try replacing the mobo and PSU. If I can't, then I'll just get a new Dell-which will likely be cheaper than the equivalent system built by me. It's not that I'm inexperienced with picking and building systems (I have 15 under my belt), I just don't trust ASUS, MSI, EPOX and the rest. I've been burned by all of them. I have a nice Giga-byte system now, but I think I'm done building my own for a while.

Now I just have to wait for the $500 4500 Dell system deal to come back. I'll be checking gotapex daily.

Thanks for the info,
Konig

 

[Kingofcomputer]

I just don't trust ASUS, MSI, EPOX and the rest. I've been burned by all of them. I have a nice Giga-byte system now, but I think I'm done building my own for a while.

I don't trust dell, ibm, compaq, hp and the rest.

If you buy intel cpu + intel motherboard + crucial or kingston memory + a well designed case (such as Chieftec, Compucase, Enlight, In-win, etc), you could make a stable system same as those brand names or even better.

Those brand name computers also use Intel, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, etc motherboard. Top tier motherboard manufacturers make the oem version motherboard for them.

Since you've been doing building your own, you should stick to building your own.

 

[RossMAN]

Excellent posts mechBgon, thanks for the info.

Konig - Last month I bought a loaded Dell Dimension 4500 for $489 after coupons, rebate, eBates and price adjustment with FREE shipping. It took some work but in the end I got a pretty nice fast & quiet system for under $500.

DIM 4500,P4,1.8AGHZ,MMT,INT SND
128MB DDR SDRAM AT 266MHZ,TIED
DELL QUIETKEY KEYBOARD,104,ENGLISH,TIED
VIDEO READY W/O MONITOR,DIM2,XPS2
64MB GEFORCE4 MX 420 W/TV OUT VIDEO
40GB ATA-100 7200 RPM,TIED
3.5IN,1.44MB,FD,MG
WIN XP HOME,ENG,DIM,TIED
DELL SUPPORT 1.2,DIMENSION,TIED
DELL APPLICATION BACK-UP CD,FACT
MICROSOFT INTELLIMOUSE,MG
NO NETWORK CARD REQUESTED,DIM
NO MODEM REQUESTED
16X DVD-ROM DRIVE
DECODING SOFTWARE FOR DVD-ROM DRIVE,4500
INTEGRATED ADI 1885 AUDIO,TIED
HARMAN KARDON HK-206 SPEAKERS,MG
DPS IMAGE EXPERT STANDARD,DIM
AOL 7.0 CD FOR US
DELLNET BY MSN 7.0 FI 6-MONTH
MS WORKSUITE 2002,CDWD,OEM,US ENG,DIM
NBD,DIM,BSC,INIT YR,BSD
NO WARRANTY,YRS 2/3(DIM,INSP,NBD)
BSD TRACKING
24X/10X/40X CD-RW DRIVE,DIM01,2ND BAY
TRACKING,D AND C

http://www.xpbargains.com/ (maintained by our very own bit) usually has the latest and greatest Dell deals, don't worry you don't have to check his website daily because he usually posts the deals in AT Hot Deals.

 

[mechBgon]

That is certainly a lot of system for <$500!

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
That is certainly a lot of system for <$500!

That's what compelled me to buy it. I would have preferred building my own but I'm not a mad gamer or enthusiast who needs the latest and greatest. It's A LOT of machine for under $500 and I didn't get it barebones either, all I skimped on was RAM which I bought 2x256 PC2100 DDRAM for $30 each @ BB B&M after rebates, I had a Netgear FA310TX laying around, a FREE after rebate 56k modem and $40 Win XP Pro. I paid Dell for the 16x DVD-ROM and 24/10/40 CD-RW because I'm lazy.

 

[Konig]

RossMAN-you make my point exactly!

I was just priceing some components and at newegg a 2.4GHz P4 costs $319. The Dell site has Dimension 4500 with that CPU for $749 as I configured it (comes with a free Palm M105-I'm waiting for the $100 rebate instead). The difference between the 2.4B and 2.0A on the Dell site is only $40. If I wanted a comperable system the CPU alone would be almost half the cost of the Dell sytem... I can get by with a 2.0A P4 and cut the cost of the CPU to $194(retail). I can take the DVD drive and a 60GB HD out of my current system and come in at about $750 for all components I'll have to buy. The advantage of that is I can get 512MB PC2700 and find a motherboard that will run it at the full DDR333 speed. The case I use will be upgradable, also-though may be a little louder.

 

[Jugernot]

I just bought a Dell Dimension 4500 last month and it's uses a standard PS with a standard pinout. So the propriatary pinout could be a thing of the past?