Do some processors not like 200FSB or is it another problem?

[BG4533]

First, my system specs:
Asus A7N8X Deluxe (1005 bios)
AMD Athlon XP1700+ DUT3C TBred B
Corsair PC3500C2
WD Raptor
MSI GF4 MX440VTP
Antec Truepower 430
MB Temp=21C, CPU=30c-35c

I set up this system yesterday and I have been trying to overclock it today. The system will run fine at 166FSBx12 at 1.6V with memory at 166-4-2-2-2 at 2.6V. The memory will run at 222-6-2-2-2 at 2.8V. The problem is that whenever I try a FSB over 166 (so far I have tried 175 and 200) the computer will not post regardless of memory speed. I have tried varying the CPU voltages and lowering the multipliers to keep the processor under 2GHz, but no luck. When I try one of these high FSBs I have to reflash the BIOS every few times because the computer will only post at a 100MHz FSB after. This seems like it would be a mobo problem to me, but these speeds are what the board is rated for. Any idea as to what could be causing this or settings to try? It seems like I got a good processor, but I cant even test it over 2GHz as 166FSB becuase I cant get multipliers above 12. I am not happy I spent $140 on memory if I cant even run it near its max speeds.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[pspada]

The problem is that it could well be any number of other pieces that can't do a 200Mhz FSB, including the processor and the motherboard. Also, if the FSB/AGP/PCI multiplier is locked, the failure might be in the AGP or PCI bus.

 

[BG4533]

Originally posted by: pspada
The problem is that it could well be any number of other pieces that can't do a 200Mhz FSB, including the processor and the motherboard. Also, if the FSB/AGP/PCI multiplier is locked, the failure might be in the AGP or PCI bus.

Do you mean if the AGP and PCI multipliers are not locked they can cause problems? This board is supposed to have them locked which should run them at their rated speeds always.

Brian

 

[ChampionAtTufshop]

waht revision is the board?

also, dont go in high jumps and dont make too many changes before you save and exit, some boards (quite afwe) have troubles saving to cmos and end up dying....or sometimes they just take a very long time to save and restart

like make one change (lock agp bus) and then save and exit
then change the mult, repeat save/exit bit
then change the vcore, repate save/exit bit
then change the freq to 166, repeate save/exit bit
then change the freq to 170, etc
keep going until it doesnt post then, ur gonna hate this, do it all over again lol

...the board, when it doesnt work how its suposed to, is a PITA!

 

[BG4533]

The board is a revisions 2. I just bought it from Newegg. Right now I have Windows up and running at 166FSBx12@1.6V with memory at 166-3-2-2-2 @ 2.6v. It flies so far without a problem, but I imagine a 200MHz FSB will still be better.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[BG4533]

I actually made it up to 184FSB doing what you said ChampionAtTufshop. As soon as I tried 187 though the board refused to boot and I had to flash the BIOS to get it running again. I am scared about falshing the BIOS so much, so I ordered a BIOS Savior just in case and will continue OCing when it arrives. No one thinks it is the board right? I would like to be able to upgrade to a real 400MHzFSB Athlon sometime and I will not be happy if the board can't do it.

THanks,
Brian

 

[MachoDonut]

You may want to try upping your chipset voltage a little bit.

 

[pspada]

Originally posted by: BG4533

Originally posted by: pspada
The problem is that it could well be any number of other pieces that can't do a 200Mhz FSB, including the processor and the motherboard. Also, if the FSB/AGP/PCI multiplier is locked, the failure might be in the AGP or PCI bus.

Do you mean if the AGP and PCI multipliers are not locked they can cause problems? This board is supposed to have them locked which should run them at their rated speeds always.

Brian

No, in most cases these multipliers are locked to either a 5:2:1 or 4:2:1 ratio (that is 1 = 33Mhz, the speed of the PCI bus; 2 = 66Mhz, the speed of the AGP bus; 4 = 133Mhz FSB; 5 = 166Mhz FSB). Therefore, if you go above the 166Mhz FSB speed, it will also increase the speed of the AGP and PCI buses. So if you move to a 175Mhz FSB, the AGP bus becomes 70Mhz, and the PCI bus becomes 35Mhz. And at a 200Mhz FSB, the AGP bus becomes 80Mhz, and the PCI becomse 40Mhz. So if you AGP video card has problems running at 80Mhz, it could cause problems even if the CPU and memory can handle the higher speed. And of course the same rational applies to the PCI bus, which tends to be even more fragile than the AGP bus.

The newer m/bs that can run at the 200Mhz FSB speed have an additional 6:2:1 ratio, or can be set manually.

 

[Shimmishim]

i believe thaton the asus the pci is locked to 33 mhz no matter what but the agp is adjustable from 66 mhz to some insane number like 100 (at least it is on the abit)

it is very interesting that you arenot able to hit at least 200 and i also do not understand why you keep flashing the bios

if the computer beeps at you because it was not able to post, then all you have to do is clear the cmos (via the jumper or by booting by holding the insert key) then go back into the bios, change your fsb speed to a speed that works and that'll fix your problem.... it seems that even with the abit board when you clear the cmos, the computer boots back up @ 11 x 100 (11 being the default mult for the 1700+)...

so try that... just go back into the bios, change the fsb to something that worked before, and your problem should be fixed w/o having to flash the bios again...

or maybe i just completely misunderstood you

also, i have tried upping my fsb from 100 to 200 and i did not corrupt the bios but i could just be lucky 50x

 

[BG4533]

When I try a high FSB that does not work the board just hangs after I restart, no beeps or voices or anything. Resetting the CMOS will get me back into the BIOS screen with the board at 100FSB. For some reason though, even if I just hit save settings without changing anything the computer will not post again. If I try changing things I get the same problems. The only way to get this to go away is to flash the BIOS again. This happens with both bios 1005 and UBER1005. I tried 1003, but that wouldnt update my CPU settings at all. Any ideas? This has made me think I may have got a bad board.

Brian

 

[Necrolezbeast]

it takes you into the bios at 11x100 but when you save/exit it saves the last settings you had in there, just load defaults then boot to bios again...everything should be fine then

 

[pspada]

That's correct, you may need to save the settings after clearing the CMOS to enable the board to boot.

But I've never seen a m/b where PCI was locked to 33Mhz, it is always lowest multiplier of the FSB.

 

[BG4533]

I have tried saving normally stable settings between 100FSB-166FSB, but it doesnt help.

I think all nForce2 boards have their PCI bus locked and have the ability to lock the AGP bus.

Brian

 

[Whitedog]

Originally posted by: pspada
That's correct, you may need to save the settings after clearing the CMOS to enable the board to boot.

But I've never seen a m/b where PCI was locked to 33Mhz, it is always lowest multiplier of the FSB.

Well, you don't own an A7N8X then. The PCI is locked at 33 on these boards, so that's not it, and you can manually set the AGP to 66 and it's Locked.

Try:
Set the bios to defaults (Uhmm, you don't have to flash the bios to do this, as shim said). Now, just mess with the "Multx, FSB, and CPU voltage" settings... leave everything else alone (default), especially the memory timings and stuff (for now).

Once you get the FSB/MEM running where you want, then go in and mess with the timings...

I wouldn't mess with 1.6 volts on the CPU, sounds like you need to give it a boost.

I cant even test it over 2GHz as 166FSB becuase I cant get multipliers above 12.

That doesn't make sense... that board goes up to like x17 or something. Scroll up to the top of the Multx list. They are NOT in order.

Good luck

 

[BG4533]

Originally posted by: Whitedog

Originally posted by: pspada
That's correct, you may need to save the settings after clearing the CMOS to enable the board to boot.

But I've never seen a m/b where PCI was locked to 33Mhz, it is always lowest multiplier of the FSB.

Well, you don't own an A7N8X then. The PCI is locked at 33 on these boards, so that's not it, and you can manually set the AGP to 66 and it's Locked.

Try:
Set the bios to defaults (Uhmm, you don't have to flash the bios to do this, as shim said). Now, just mess with the "Multx, FSB, and CPU voltage" settings... leave everything else alone (default), especially the memory timings and stuff (for now).

Once you get the FSB/MEM running where you want, then go in and mess with the timings...

I wouldn't mess with 1.6 volts on the CPU, sounds like you need to give it a boost.

I cant even test it over 2GHz as 166FSB becuase I cant get multipliers above 12.

That doesn't make sense... that board goes up to like x17 or something. Scroll up to the top of the Multx list. They are NOT in order.

Good luck

I will try actually setting it to default after one of these crashes instead of trying to set my own. Actually I get multipliers up to 12.5. The XP1700s only have access to the multipliers 12.5 and lower unless you mod them somehow. I can see the higher ones, but when I try to use them I get really low clock speeds. Thanks for all the help. I have done some mild overclocking recently, but nothing like this. I miss the days when OCing was as easy as throwing a 600MHz Duron in and running it at 1GHz.

Brian

 

[pspada]

You are correct, I have yet to play with any NForce2 motherboards. Interesting tho, do you think they specifically considered oc'ing and that's why they set the PCI and AGP to lock or be locked?

 

[Whitedog]

Originally posted by: pspada
You are correct, I have yet to play with any NForce2 motherboards. Interesting tho, do you think they specifically considered oc'ing and that's why they set the PCI and AGP to lock or be locked?

Absolutly. nForce2 = GOD mobo's for OCing.

 

[soja]

Wow I'm behind the times. locked pci/agp bus, amazing

 

[MoonPie]

I've had the same problems as you but i have my agp set "auto"

currently still testing but i've got it upto 186 FSB/ multi 11, stable with "xp2100 dut3c"

but i'm using 256 hyperx 3000.....if i push further i get error in prime95......

i'm kinda stuck at the moment.....

you should bump vcore little bit and try bumping fsb by 5 increments and try not to make lot of changes in bios then save ..

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: pspada
That's correct, you may need to save the settings after clearing the CMOS to enable the board to boot.

But I've never seen a m/b where PCI was locked to 33Mhz, it is always lowest multiplier of the FSB.

Guess you've never seen an Nforce2 based motherboard than have you? Basicall all Nforce 2 motherboards do this. The pci and agp buses are set independent of the FSB.

 

[pspada]

Originally posted by: NesuD

Originally posted by: pspada
That's correct, you may need to save the settings after clearing the CMOS to enable the board to boot.

But I've never seen a m/b where PCI was locked to 33Mhz, it is always lowest multiplier of the FSB.

Guess you've never seen an Nforce2 based motherboard than have you? Basicall all Nforce 2 motherboards do this. The pci and agp buses are set independent of the FSB.

Thanks, I understood this about 10 posts ago.

 

[BG4533]

Well...I just got my BIOS Savior today and I am happy I did. It is a great product for those that are considering it. As for the pursuit of a 200MHz FSB, I have all but given up. For my attemps I tried voltages up to 1.85v with memory at 100%@2.8V with timings varying from 6-3-3-2 to 7-3-3-2.5 and a few others. I got up to 185 stable, but the processor took 1.85V(1.89 actual) to do it. I then tried for 189FSB but the board would not do it. The board had problems posting and the times it did, it crashed before it got to Windows. The furthest it actually got was to just after the RAID controller posted. It hung there and after 5 minutes I restarted, but it resfused to do anything. I tried resetting the CMOS, pulling the battery, everything, but the board would not post. That is why I am so greatful I had the BIOS savior, a little flip of its switch and I was going again instead of RMAing the board or trying to find a new BIOS chip. Anyway, right now the computer has been running Prime95 for about 1hr at 180x11.5(2070MHz) @1.7V. To get to 180x12 I needed 1.775v. I am still hoping this isnt the board, but I guess I just got a "dud" processor. I bought this processor from Googlegear if it matters. How are other people going with their DUT3Cs they bought from Googlegear a few weeks ago for $44? Thanks for all the help.

Brian

 

[Anonemous]

Originally posted by: Shimmishim
i believe thaton the asus the pci is locked to 33 mhz no matter what but the agp is adjustable from 66 mhz to some insane number like 100 (at least it is on the abit)

it is very interesting that you arenot able to hit at least 200 and i also do not understand why you keep flashing the bios

if the computer beeps at you because it was not able to post, then all you have to do is clear the cmos (via the jumper or by booting by holding the insert key) then go back into the bios, change your fsb speed to a speed that works and that'll fix your problem.... it seems that even with the abit board when you clear the cmos, the computer boots back up @ 11 x 100 (11 being the default mult for the 1700+)...

so try that... just go back into the bios, change the fsb to something that worked before, and your problem should be fixed w/o having to flash the bios again...

or maybe i just completely misunderstood you

also, i have tried upping my fsb from 100 to 200 and i did not corrupt the bios but i could just be lucky 50x

I see that you're using Abit NF7, does the same thing apply to the A7n8x deluxe? Whenever my the computer wouldn't post I always had to pull the plug, take out the battery, move a jumper over, move the jumper back, hook up the power, and restart and hit INS on bootup. Is that the correct way of doing it?

edit: also it was freaking me out when the mobo started talking and saying my CPU fan was dead (which it wasn't) when it wouldn't post... =|

 

[BG4533]

I guess 180FSBx12@1.7V was even to much. After 2 hours of Prime95 it stopped and I got a rounding error. Right now I am back to my original speeds of 166x12@1.65v with memory at 3-2-2-2@2.6v. This setup runs rock solid and has passed many hours of Prime95 and Memtest 86. I think my processor adds proof that not all TBred Bs can do 200FSB or even close. Sorry Shimmishim I wish your arguement was true about this, but it doesnt seem to be. If I wanted to I could successfully run the processor at 180FSBx12@1.725 or but I am more confident with it where it is now and it is much easier to keep quiet. I guess this is an excuse to buy another processor in the next couple of months.

Thanks again,
Brian

 

[MiExStacY]

i got my asus deluxe 2.0 from newegg yesterday and the 1700+ i've heard of people having problems with 1005 bios overclocking so when i got my board yesterday i flash it to 1004uber did you try that yet cause 1003 i couldnt do 200fsb but with 1004 i could