• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Do Keynesians believe that depressions can last forever?

A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
How long would the Great Depression have lasted if the budget had been balanced, no additional regulations legislated, and taxes not increased?

The Panic of 1857 was a short panic all while James Buchanan recommended more deflation via tougher bankruptcy laws in States that had loose credit policies.

The Panic of 1837 was only the 4 years of Martin Van Buren's presidency and he didn't intervene one bit.

The Panic of 1893 didn't last long either.

The Panic of 1819 subsided with very little govt intervention (although Monroe did loosen bankruptcy laws he didn't loosen them that much) and huge govt surpluses.
 
Remember the major financial crashes from 1933 to 1969?

No you don't, becuase it's the only long time without one, with more regulation.

Extend that through Carter, because while there some nasty inflation, there was the Nixon administration and oil embargo as factors; it was solved under Paul Volcker.

The crashes started again only with Reagan's deregulation, followed soon by the S&L crisis - and repeated problems ever since with more deregulation.
 
Craig234 said:
Remember the major financial crashes from 1933 to 1969? No you don't, becuase it's the only long time without one, with more regulation. Extend that through Carter, because while there some nasty inflation, there was the Nixon administration and oil embargo as factors; it was solved under Paul Volcker. The crashes started again only with Reagan's deregulation, followed soon by the S&L crisis - and repeated problems ever since with more deregulation.
Click to expand...
But do you believe that depressions can last forever?
 
In the old days the government did not try to rescue the economy as much so it ran its course and things got better, but if you try to prop up a bad economy you are just prolonging the pain. Of course at the end of the 1800's houses were not as big. By buying more than you can afford you are setting yourself up for failure.
 
Anarchist420 said:
Then why do Keynesians advocate govt intervention if depressions don't last forever?
Click to expand...

Well, as pointed out, forever is a really long time, in fact, forever will outlast our solar system.

However since depressions don't last forever that doesn't mean they don't last a relatively long time. Keynesians seek to make a depression last as short as possible.

Do you have some sort of point you are trying to make.
 
Anarchist420 said:
Then why do Keynesians advocate govt intervention if depressions don't last forever?
Click to expand...

Because the government can reduce the harm done to the economy and increase the growth.

A good example is the recession when President Kennedy softened the impact with governmental activities. stimulating the economy by speeding up government spending.

How man people will the downturn make unempoyed? How many companies will it put out of business? How much growth will be lost? Government policy can change the answers.
 
ivwshane said:
Well, as pointed out, forever is a really long time, in fact, forever will outlast our solar system. However since depressions don't last forever that doesn't mean they don't last a relatively long time. Keynesians seek to make a depression last as short as possible. Do you have some sort of point you are trying to make.
Click to expand...
I don't have a point to make, but I will say ... as an Austrian-minded person, Keynesian economic doesn't make any sense to me because no one from the present can know the future.
 
Anarchist420 said:
If Keynesians seek to make an economic depression as short as possible, then they think they can predict the future.
Click to expand...

Note: Your previous post asked if Keynesians think they "know" the future. Now you're shifting the goal-post to "predict" the future.

If I drop a bowling ball from the top of a six-story building, I predict that in roughly two seconds there'll be a bowling ball on the ground. Am I magician who knows the future? Or am I, just like the Keynesians, a man with a time-tested model that's proved well-suited for our environment?

But thank you for so perfectly demonstrating the utterly childish thinking of libertarianism. It's all black-or-white. Government policies aren't perfect, so they must always be completely bad. Personal property rights are good, so people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons. There's no such thing as looking at data and weighted probabilities, people making predictions must think they "know" the future.
 
GreenMeters said:
Note: Your previous post asked if Keynesians think they "know" the future. Now you're shifting the goal-post to "predict" the future.

If I drop a bowling ball from the top of a six-story building, I predict that in roughly two seconds there'll be a bowling ball on the ground. Am I magician who knows the future? Or am I, just like the Keynesians, a man with a time-tested model that's proved well-suited for our environment?

But thank you for so perfectly demonstrating the utterly childish thinking of libertarianism. It's all black-or-white. Government policies aren't perfect, so they must always be completely bad. Personal property rights are good, so people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons. There's no such thing as looking at data and weighted probabilities, people making predictions must think they "know" the future.
Click to expand...


Is it libertarianism or is it just stupid people thinking out loud? I have a hard time believing an ideology like libertarianism wouldn't have some basis in reality.

Then again the only outspoken libertarians I see are crazy.
 
ivwshane said:
Is it libertarianism or is it just stupid people thinking out loud? I have a hard time believing an ideology like libertarianism wouldn't have some basis in reality.
Click to expand...

Without derailing this thread too much (not that the particular topic commands respect), there is value in libertarian philosophy in countering authoritarianism. And there are reasonable people with libertarian leanings (I believe this forum's progenitor identifies as such). But movement libertarianism, in the U.S., is dominated (perhaps in total numbers, certainly in loudness) by cranks and charlatans relying on black-or-white rhetoric.
 
The very discussion of libertarianism tends to shut off rational analysis and turn on the ideology machines.

The OP shows this problem, turning away from the legitimate discussion of Keynesian policies to try to force the issue into dogma.
 
Last edited:
Anarchist420 said:
But do you believe that depressions can last forever?
Click to expand...

You're presenting a flawed premise. Keynesians expect and plan for both boom & bust cycles. Ups & downs are practically a requirement of Keynesian economics. To minimize the damage and maximize the gains, they advocate spending during recessions while saving & cutting spending during economic booms.

Keynesian economic doesn't make any sense to me because no one from the present can know the future.
Click to expand...

I can't predict the weather 3 years from now, but I don't think anyone would dispute my prediction that it will rain in New York at some point during the summer of 2016. You're right, I can't know the future. But I can, with relative certainty, predict that the sun will rise tomorrow. Keynesian economics do the same thing. They predict that there will be recessions and bubbles. Nobody disputes that. It's what you do during those times that matters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top