Do Intel MLC SSDs support the new TRIM command?

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taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
there are two basic questions:
1. Will trim work for a non member drive with the controller in RAID mode...
A: according to anandtech intel's should soon.
2. Will trim work for a raid member drive.
A: according to various sources, probably not. not without buying a new controller that explicitly supports it out of the box that is.
 

Qbah

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2005
3,754
10
81
Originally posted by: taltamir
there are two basic questions:
1. Will trim work for a non member drive with the controller in RAID mode...
A: according to anandtech intel's should soon.
2. Will trim work for a raid member drive.
A: according to various sources, probably not. not without buying a new controller that explicitly supports it out of the box that is.

Since I'm only interested in the first question (and running on the ICH9R), let's hope Anand is right! :)
 

Cavicchi

Member
Sep 30, 2009
26
0
0
There are significant limitations to TRIM at this point. The instruction only works in a supported OS (Windows 7 and some Linux builds) and only with supported drivers. Under Windows 7 that means you have to use a Microsoft made IDE or AHCI driver (you can't install chipset drivers from anyone else).

Unfortunately if you?re running an Intel controller in RAID mode (whether non-member RAID or not), Windows 7 loads Intel?s Matrix Storage Manager driver, which presently does not pass the TRIM command. Intel is working on a solution to this and I'd expect that it'll get fixed after the release of Intel's 34nm TRIM firmware in Q4 of this year.

So that would appear to mean installing Windows 7 is all you need to do with regard to drivers for TRIM to work in either AHCI or IDE (SATA in native IDE).

But why even bother with AHCI if there is no need for hot swapping or not running in an enterprise environment?

"Just a quick reminder for everyone on NCQ. It provides no performance benefit whatsoever in a typical desktop PC. In fact having it enabled usually imposes a small performance penalty, although it too is pretty small. It is only in enterprise environments, in which access patterns are far more random than in windows, and spread out all over the surface of a drive, that any real-word benefit is derived."

http://www.intelforums.net/sho...p=4137199&postcount=11
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
"Just a quick reminder for everyone on NCQ. It provides no performance benefit whatsoever in a typical desktop PC. In fact having it enabled usually imposes a small performance penalty, although it too is pretty small. It is only in enterprise environments, in which access patterns are far more random than in windows, and spread out all over the surface of a drive, that any real-word benefit is derived."
That is simply incorrect.

As for why AHCI.
AHCI allows a variety of modern functions, including NCQ, TRIM, and hotplug.
NCQ allows drives to better control their writing if they support it. Some drives are known to have horrible NCQ implementation as a "checkmark feature" which degrades performance a lot across the board, but those are fairly rare and old... (I think, the very first gen raptor was one... fixed in later gens)

There is another performance "degradation" referred to found in all SPINDLE Drives using NCQ, where there is a loss in sequential speeds and a boost in random access speed. It was believed, in the past, that only sequential speeds matter to the "home user" and random does not; but that is simply not true and it greatly benefits even home users to have it enabled...

This myth is how we got thing like the terrible jmicron controller. Not all beleived it, as an example, the raptor series focused a lot on random speeds.
Today it is known that random speeds are more valuable even to the home user, which is part of the huge benefit of the intel and vertex SSDs. (although they are faster in sequential too).
 

hunterthomson

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2009
1
0
0
Yes, Linux has had Kernel support for TRIM for a long time now. In Linux TRIM works, unlike in Windows. I am using TRIM on my OCZ Vertex right now. Also, there are other filesystems you can use with Linux that function in a better way for SSD's . NILFS is one of them. NILFS makes nearly all writes "Sequential Writes". So with a SSD that makes for a 10x faster average real world write speed.

TRIM doesn't work well in Windows probably because Microsoft is trying to pervert the standards so TRIM will only work with Windows. They did this with the HTML standards back in the 90's. ACPI standards are a good example. The US Supreme Court even found them guilty of perverting the ACPI standards. An e-mail Bill Gates wrote saying just that was submitted as evidence. Well, also the HTML standards and the like. That is why they were "Suppose To" brake IE off into it's own company. Will it work.? Probably they own a large market share. Thats how monopoly's stay on top.
 

dfedders

Member
Dec 18, 2004
136
0
0
Originally posted by: hunterthomson
Yes, Linux has had Kernel support for TRIM for a long time now. In Linux TRIM works, unlike in Windows. I am using TRIM on my OCZ Vertex right now. Also, there are other filesystems you can use with Linux that function in a better way for SSD's . NILFS is one of them. NILFS makes nearly all writes "Sequential Writes". So with a SSD that makes for a 10x faster average real world write speed.

TRIM doesn't work well in Windows probably because Microsoft is trying to pervert the standards so TRIM will only work with Windows. They did this with the HTML standards back in the 90's. ACPI standards are a good example. The US Supreme Court even found them guilty of perverting the ACPI standards. An e-mail Bill Gates wrote saying just that was submitted as evidence. Well, also the HTML standards and the like. That is why they were "Suppose To" brake IE off into it's own company. Will it work.? Probably they own a large market share. Thats how monopoly's stay on top.
Thats how tinfoil companies stay in business.

Windows 7 supports trim.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
single post person claiming a vast conspiracy and backing it up with "facts" (which he provides and is the only source of)... tell me more?
 

TheBeagle

Senior member
Apr 5, 2005
508
0
0
I believe that all this negative tone bantering is really counter-productive. Perhaps Rodney King said it best (shortly after he got a serious ass-whooping from the California cops), when he is quoted as having remarked, "Can't we all just get along?" Think about it.