Do I have to use the outgoing SMTP server of my ISP? I get errors all of a sudden!

[MulLa]

Hi all.

Here the situation. Let's say all e-mails for my domain is hosted by company E and I have ADSL connection to company A. I've been using the mail server of company E for both incoming and outgoing SMTP servers for weeks.

All of a sudden this afternoon I get errors saying "recipient rejected - relay access denied", for all e-mails to domains other than my own. E-mails between people in the company still goes alright.

I called up company E and complained. They told me that I can't use their SMTP server for outgoing mail and I have to use company A's because my ADSL connection is with company A.

Now my question is. Does that sound right? Why would things just all of a sudden stopped working? If what they told me was right. Why? I tried asking the support people "Why" but they are not sure themselves.

Anyone with into in regards to this would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks.

 

[Need4Speed]

yes that's right

 

[MulLa]

Thanks for the quick confirmation.

Would you care to explain why that is?

Now this could be a problem. What if a user has a laptop and a dial up connection with company E (the e-mail hosting company). They would use the company ADSL while in office and the dial up while away. That would mean I have to change their e-mail server address each time they go in and out of the office?

Thanks again.

 

[MulLa]

Hi all

Ok I've done a bit of research on me own, didn't find much one it but the little bit here about open relay shed some light on the situation.

So it sounds like company E (the e-mail hosting) company made a few changes to the way their e-mail servers handled open relay. They were telling me that it's my ADSL company (company A) was at fault.

Or am I the one who's misunderstood??!!

 

[Need4Speed]

its to keep unautherized people from using mail servers for spamming purposes

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Interesting, because I have Comcast cable, and I send all of my email from my domain, which is not hosted by Comcast. I've had no issues with doing that...

 

[mboy]

Depends on the ISP. Not very bright for an ISP (or SMTP host anyway) to allow open relyaing. VERY VERY stupid!

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Originally posted by: mboy
Depends on the ISP. Not very bright for an ISP (or SMTP host anyway) to allow open relyaing. VERY VERY stupid!

What do you mean? How would our friends SPAM us with penis enlargement ads if there were no open relays.

 

[MulLa]

Thanks all for the replies. While it's a good idea for ISPs to stop open relay in their policies. I think it's a bit silly not to notify their customers beforehand. Well I guess it's all written in their fine print.

 

[vortix]

Originally posted by: MulLa
Thanks all for the replies. While it's a good idea for ISPs to stop open relay in their policies. I think it's a bit silly not to notify their customers beforehand. Well I guess it's all written in their fine print.

You should only be using the SMTP server of the ISP you are connecting to the Internet through. Anyone else should not be expected to allow you to use their server, even if it is a company that is hosting your websites for you. Alternatively, you can run your own SMTP server....even on your local machine. Then you'll never have to worry about this "problem". Just make sure you restrict access to anyone but yourself!

 

[MulLa]

vortix: How would you host your own SMTP server on your local machine? Would I have to buy extra software to do that?

 

[Doh!]

Yes, you would need a software to run your own smtp server (linux is free or IIS in any MS server OS or any third-party applications: sygate, kerio for example).

 

[Basse]

Isn't email included in your ISPs package? Why not use your ISPs smtp server then instead, maybe they have authentication you can use if they don't have open relay?

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

As I have pointed out, a major broadband ISP, Comcast in my case, doesn't mind that I use my SMTP server at www.domaindirect.com, there is no restriction there.

In point of fact, it would be a real PITA for many businesses that have their own domain to have to use the ISP's mail server if they're trying to actually look like a business. I want my mail to come from my domain...

 

[MulLa]

Hm... In that case since all client machines are on windows I guess I should just give up the idea of running SMTP on client machines.

Yes I can always use my ISP's outgoing SMTP server but I find that their server is giving me a lot of trouble a few weeks back so I decided to switch to using my e-mail hosting co.'s SMTP. Guess what? This morning when I went to work, everything started working fine again. YES now if I use my e-mail hosting co.'s SMTP it would work again! What a weird day!

Thanks gunrunnerjohn for the domaindirect address. Something that I've been looking for but never had the time to search for it

 

[martind1]

Originally posted by: MulLa
Hm... In that case since all client machines are on windows I guess I should just give up the idea of running SMTP on client machines.

Yes I can always use my ISP's outgoing SMTP server but I find that their server is giving me a lot of trouble a few weeks back so I decided to switch to using my e-mail hosting co.'s SMTP. Guess what? This morning when I went to work, everything started working fine again. YES now if I use my e-mail hosting co.'s SMTP it would work again! What a weird day!

Thanks gunrunnerjohn for the domaindirect address. Something that I've been looking for but never had the time to search for it

Ok first of all you coudl set up 1 smtp server on your own network for ALL the client computers can use. they dont each need a seperate one.

also since they all use windows, there are plenty of smtp software out there you can install to use.

 

[Need4Speed]

the problem with running your own smtp server, is that many domains including aol and time warner block inbound emails from smtp smtp servers hosted on residential IP addresses...meaning, that you can send the mail, but there is a good chance that the ISP that you are sending the mail too will block it. also done to fight spam

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

True, but my SMTP server is not on my machine, but rather on www.domaindirect.com and that doesn't seem to be an issue with anyone I know of. I regularly send email to AOL addresses with no issues.

 

[cleverhandle]

gunrunnerjohn: Do you use SMTP AUTH to connect to that SMTP server? That would be the standard practice for servers that have to send mail for machines outside of the immediate network. I very much doubt they would let the server be a totally open relay.

MulLa: As others have pointed out, you generally have to send outgoing mail through the mail server belonging to the network you're accessing the Net through. The server will check your IP address to decide whether or not you're connecting to it from the right place. SMTP AUTH adds a password to the connection, and thus can ignore the address check. You may want to check with your email hosting company to see if they support SMTP AUTH in case of future problems - if they're not using it already, they should be.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

I have authorization allowed, but when I select "last SSL info", it always says I haven't done any SSL negotiation since starting Eudora.

 

[cleverhandle]

SSL != SMTP AUTH, though they're often used together. Sometimes you can tell that you're using SMTP AUTH by the presence of a username/password for the outgoing mail server that's different than the one you use to receive mail. But sometimes they're the same, and the client defaults to using the same credentials both ways. To be really sure, you'd want to check out the logs of the communications, if your client has that feature. An "AUTH" command in a send transaction means you're using SMTP AUTH. Also note that, if you're not using SSL, you're most likely transmitting your password in plain text, so don't choose a tremendously important password for the job if you have a choice.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Hmm... I thought I used the name/pw for the SMTP server, but I configured Agent to send mail with no name/password, and it came to another account just fine.

 

[MulLa]

Need4Speed: Won't that be a problem for companies that host their own e-mails. ie by way of Exchange, MDaemon etc? I suppose they can just configure it to forward all outgoing mail to the SMTP server of their ISP. Then again these companies with internal mail systems would still be relying on their ISP's mail servers. If they go then so does internal mail servers.

cleverhandle I figured as much. That they would prevent people from other IPs connecting to their mail servers. My boss is currently contemplating on setting up internal mail servers. Due to problems with relying on ISP's mail servers.

 

[cleverhandle]

Won't that be a problem for companies that host their own e-mails. ie by way of Exchange, MDaemon etc? I suppose they can just configure it to forward all outgoing mail to the SMTP server of their ISP. Then again these companies with internal mail systems would still be relying on their ISP's mail servers. If they go then so does internal mail servers.

A company hosting their own mail should not be using residential DSL service. They should have business class service or a T1+, neither of which will have any blacklisting problems.

I figured as much. That they would prevent people from other IPs connecting to their mail servers. My boss is currently contemplating on setting up internal mail servers. Due to problems with relying on ISP's mail servers.

What exactly is the problem you're having with the ISP's mail servers? You should be quite certain that the problem is on their end before you go and run your own SMTP. Usually there's not much to go wrong with an ISP's mail relays apart from basic connectivity problems.

 

[MulLa]

A company hosting their own mail should not be using residential DSL service. They should have business class service or a T1+, neither of which will have any blacklisting problems.

Very true.

What exactly is the problem you're having with the ISP's mail servers? You should be quite certain that the problem is on their end before you go and run your own SMTP. Usually there's not much to go wrong with an ISP's mail relays apart from basic connectivity problems.

Well just random error messages coming up in Outlook can't remember what they were, got them written down at work. Peole's e-mail would stop working intermittently sometimes. I know Australia is having a bad e-mail problem recently so I can understand that. Hm... but try explaining that to your average joe worker. They just keep asking why and you just keeping saying the same things to them!

Hope it'll just go away soon!