Do I have any Legal Recourse?

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Party poker has cancelled its Monster tournament structure.

The structure is

100k Weekly Tournament, 25% make it into the Monthly 8000 people

$1 million Monthly Tournament, 12.5% make it into the Final 8000 people

Final tournament, current prize pool $14 million 8000 people


Cut from their site


Cash values for each freeroll (not taking into account any future value):

Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player

Probability of advancing from one tournament to another:

Weekly to Monthly = ( 2,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 4

Monthly to Grand Final = ( 1,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 8


Future values for each freeroll:
Value of a Monthly freeroll to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * $125 = $31.25

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * ( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $ 56.27

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Monthly freeroll

( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $225.09
Total value for each unused freeroll:

Weekly: $12.50 + $31.25 + $56.27 = $100.02

Monthly: $125+$$225.09 = $350.09

Grand Final: = $1,800.72


8000 * (100+350) = 3.6 million
1000 * $1800 = 1.8 million

Total Monster Prize pool = $14,000,000

Net STOLEN by PP = $8.6million

As a ticket holder for the Grand Final, I expected the payout to be, whatever money is leftover after weekly and monthly disubrsement / 1000 players , which in this case would have been $10,400

dividing the total amount by 8000 is just asanine as there are only 1000 people who have an entry, and at most 2000 if you count those who might win it this month. That leaves a 6000 player vacuum, which would take millions of dollars in entries/attempts in order to fill, thust altering the value.

I may have to pursue this legally if they don't rectify it. $8600 or more is a major short. Though if they shorted me, they shorted everyone in their calcuations.

Either way I see it, they are keeping 8.6 million that they shouldnt be, by doing "bad" math.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,418
8,370
126
aren't they deciding to shut down US operations because of new US law? i bet they don't have to pay anyone in the US anything at that point due to their customer agreement.
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
aren't they deciding to shut down US operations because of new US law? i bet they don't have to pay anyone in the US anything at that point due to their customer agreement.

Err, yeah they do.... otherwise that is called stealing, which is also against the law.

But I guess since neither of us know for sure, we should keep quiet and hope that someone who does know for sure comes along.
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
Isn't this roughly the equivalent of illegally gambling with a bookie, then having the bookie arrested and being out your money?
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
I don't know the assumptions behind your math.

Did they take entry fees for a tournament and now aren't going to have the tournament?
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: kranky
I don't know the assumptions behind your math.

Did they take entry fees for a tournament and now aren't going to have the tournament?

The 14 million prize pool was being grown by rakes taken from players who played on tables where a higher rake was gathered in exchange for half of that going to the prize pool for this tournament series, and half going into a bad beat jackpot.

Basically PartyPoker collected 9 million, and then only returned 3.6 million of it. The tournament started with a $5 million seed.

Even working from the 9 million $ number, they are a ways off.
 

jadinolf

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
20,952
3
81
Sure you have recourse. Got on the phone stat and contact Johnny Coch............oops
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
I guess one question would be did they in fact collect the entire $14 million from the rakes, or did they cancel the tournament before they collected all the money.

And the fact the company is located in Gibraltar is going to be a real challenge to pursuing legal action.
 

chambersc

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2005
6,247
0
0
this is paypal. why they haevn't been sued into oblivion for keeping peoples money, i have NO fcuking clue.
 

altonb1

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2002
6,433
0
71
Originally posted by: jadinolf
Sure you have recourse. Got on the phone stat and contact Johnny Coch............oops

If you've got an Ace, whine at MySpace. ----------->
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
987
126
You don't have legal recourse for one reason.

You knowingly engaged in illegal activity. Online gambling was illegal in the US prior to the most recent bill. The most recent bill just enabled the enforcement of the original law.

It doesnt help you they are in Gibralter, as they would probably get favorable treatment there.
 

KLin

Lifer
Feb 29, 2000
29,500
125
106
Originally posted by: jadinolf
Sure you have recourse. Got on the phone stat and contact Johnny Coch............oops

Who's Johnny Coch? Is his middle name Harry?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,418
8,370
126
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: ElFenix
aren't they deciding to shut down US operations because of new US law? i bet they don't have to pay anyone in the US anything at that point due to their customer agreement.

Err, yeah they do.... otherwise that is called stealing, which is also against the law.

But I guess since neither of us know for sure, we should keep quiet and hope that someone who does know for sure comes along.

no, there is probably a force majuere or regulatory action clause in there, which you agreed to, so therefore it is not stealing.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
0
Originally posted by: chambersc
this is paypal. why they haevn't been sued into oblivion for keeping peoples money, i have NO fcuking clue.

You don't know how right you are!