Do I get Vista

[Cooler]

Do we even know what hardware vista supports yet?

 

[dnuggett]

Personally I don't see the point of it. It's a new OS but the only thing that is new is eye candy. Pointless. Of course I'm one of those that turns off all the visuals in XP so I can get it to look like 2kPRO.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: Cooler
Do we even know what hardware vista supports yet?

im sure it will support everything xp does plus more, like cable cards.

 

[NogginBoink]

I was running build 5270 on my 64-bit box and it just wasn't stable enough for everyday use.

I went back to W2K3 on that machine.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: dnuggett
Personally I don't see the point of it. It's a new OS but the only thing that is new is eye candy. Pointless. Of course I'm one of those that turns off all the visuals in XP so I can get it to look like 2kPRO.

If you think Vista is just eye candy you haven't read a single thing about it's capabilities.

Please refrain from speaking.

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: dnuggett
Personally I don't see the point of it. It's a new OS but the only thing that is new is eye candy. Pointless. Of course I'm one of those that turns off all the visuals in XP so I can get it to look like 2kPRO.

:roll: there's a lot more to it than that - check the many Vista posts for more information

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: dnuggett
Personally I don't see the point of it. It's a new OS but the only thing that is new is eye candy. Pointless. Of course I'm one of those that turns off all the visuals in XP so I can get it to look like 2kPRO.

If you think Vista is just eye candy you haven't read a single thing about it's capabilities.

Please refrain from speaking.

Wow. Really? Have you tried Vista yet? Or maybe you can enlighten me since I can no longer speak about the subject. Just what does Vista bring to the table for a home computer that XP Pro or MCE doesn't?

spherrod-
Most threads point to staying with XP. This poll does...

 

[stash]

Wow. Really? Have you tried Vista yet? Or maybe you can enlighten me since I can no longer speak about the subject. Just what does Vista bring to the table for a home computer that XP Pro or MCE doesn't?

How about finding some of the multitudes of information yourself. Google, or the search engine of your choice is a great start. channel9.msdn.com has a ton of videos of features in Vista. There are tons of reviews of the CTP builds that have been released.

Some Vista features:
* User Account Control (aka LUA)
* LoRIE (low rights IE)
* Improved firewall
* new network stack
* NAP
* Superfetch

Most threads point to staying with XP. This poll does...

Most Vista threads in AT are FUD-filled disasters, this one is no exception.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: stash

Wow. Really? Have you tried Vista yet? Or maybe you can enlighten me since I can no longer speak about the subject. Just what does Vista bring to the table for a home computer that XP Pro or MCE doesn't?

How about finding some of the multitudes of information yourself. Google, or the search engine of your choice is a great start. channel9.msdn.com has a ton of videos of features in Vista. There are tons of reviews of the CTP builds that have been released.

Some Vista features:
* User Account Control (aka LUA)
* LoRIE (low rights IE)
* Improved firewall
* new network stack
* NAP
* Superfetch

Most threads point to staying with XP. This poll does...

Most Vista threads in AT are FUD-filled disasters, this one is no exception.

So then as spherrod recommended to read the threads in AT is junk. Thanks that helps prove my point there.

As far as the rest😀o you even know what some of your quoted items do? Why the hell would you say a new network stack and NAP are a reason to upgrade from XP for a home user? It appears that you are the one with reading to do.

LUA- Depends on how that is implemented. The defaults are the key. My guess is after being prompted to extend privileges after every app install the user will go to silent, instead of being bothered. This type of of usability an be obtained with a least priviliged account in XP with "run as" being used. So XP does this.

LOWIE- Doesn't prevent malicious downloads, obviously. It only prevents malicious code from being run, and doesn't prevent it in ActiveX or script. Thsi is where a ton of the vulns are. Marginal benefit at best.

Improved firewall- There is not too much wrong with the one in place now. Again marginal benefit at best. Do you really think that the built in firewall MS will provide is worth the switch? Really? Even with all the freeware out there? Hardly.

new network stack- Great for enterprise users, no real benefit for home users. Looks like you need to do some reading yourself, this thread was started by someone looking for Vista for a personal PC (home use). No benefit over XP.

NAP- see above

Superfetch- ok this one may be worth it. Time will tell. Up your RAM or take up a USB slot cause you'll need it. Is there that much of a performance increase by prefetching dll's given todays boxes? maybe.. but prob not. Depends on implementation, and no you havent seen it yet.


You act like I don't know this stuff already. I stand behind my comment Vista is eye candy and not much else for a home user. No need to upgrade, unless you want to be upgrading for the new visuals. You haven't haven't proven your case or (Smilin's) at all. Smilin you want to take a shot at it, or are you going to tell me to read up and not speak? The homework has been done buddy.


I will add a caveat though, my point applies to XP Pro users only. After support drops of soon for XP Home and Vista is proven it may be worth it.

 

[stash]

So then as spherrod recommendation to read the threads in AT is junk. Thanks that helps prove my point there

An emotionally charged Internet message board is hardly the place to find quality information in abundance that can be used to make an informed decision. There are certainly posts scattered around that have good information, but you have to sift through all the trolls such as yourself to get to it.

My guess is after being prompted to extend privileges after every app install the user will go to silent, instead of being bothered. This type of of usability an be obtained with a least priviliged account in XP with "run as" being used. So XP does this.

I have no idea what your first sentence is trying to say, but suffice it to say, XP does not do what Vista does. This is not runas. Even users who are members of the administrator group get a split token, where they run with lowered rights most of the time.

LOWIE- Doesn't prevent malicious downloads, obviously. It only prevents malicious code from being run, and doesn't prevent it in ActiveX or script. Thsi is where a ton of the vulns are. Marginal benefit at best.

LoRIE is intended to isolate the user from vulnerabilities in IE. Right now, if someone exploits a vulnerability in IE, it runs in the context of the user (usually admin) and can do whatever it wants on the sytem. In LoRIE, even if you are an admin, exploiting a vulnerability in the browser will get you nothing. As for running malicious code, you are forgetting about LUA. To call LoRIE a marginal benefit is an ignorant troll.

new network stack- Great for enterprise users, no real benefit for home users. Look like you need to do some reading yourself, this thread was started by someone looking for Vista for a personal PC (home use). No benefit over XP.

Since when is the network stack restricted for enterprise users, genius? Vista users will see improved network performance, either between machines on their own networks, or on the Internet.

You act like I don't know this stuff already

You give no indication otherwise. You just continue to post trollish blather.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
Simple Poll: Do I get Vista for my home Computer?

Have a
840D @3.8
2GB ram
x800GTO2

Have the option to pick up the beta...should i?

Do whatever you want.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: stash

So then as spherrod recommendation to read the threads in AT is junk. Thanks that helps prove my point there

An emotionally charged Internet message board is hardly the place to find quality information in abundance that can be used to make an informed decision. There are certainly posts scattered around that have good information, but you have to sift through all the trolls such as yourself to get to it.

My guess is after being prompted to extend privileges after every app install the user will go to silent, instead of being bothered. This type of of usability an be obtained with a least priviliged account in XP with "run as" being used. So XP does this.

I have no idea what your first sentence is trying to say, but suffice it to say, XP does not do what Vista does. This is not runas. Even users who are members of the administrator group get a split token, where they run with lowered rights most of the time.

LOWIE- Doesn't prevent malicious downloads, obviously. It only prevents malicious code from being run, and doesn't prevent it in ActiveX or script. Thsi is where a ton of the vulns are. Marginal benefit at best.

LoRIE is intended to isolate the user from vulnerabilities in IE. Right now, if someone exploits a vulnerability in IE, it runs in the context of the user (usually admin) and can do whatever it wants on the sytem. In LoRIE, even if you are an admin, exploiting a vulnerability in the browser will get you nothing. As for running malicious code, you are forgetting about LUA. To call LoRIE a marginal benefit is an ignorant troll.

new network stack- Great for enterprise users, no real benefit for home users. Look like you need to do some reading yourself, this thread was started by someone looking for Vista for a personal PC (home use). No benefit over XP.

Since when is the network stack restricted for enterprise users, genius? Vista users will see improved network performance, either between machines on their own networks, or on the Internet.

You act like I don't know this stuff already

You give no indication otherwise. You just continue to post trollish blather.

How am I fogetting about LUA when I have already addressed it's usefulness. As far as you not knowing what I am saying I suggest you read up on the prompts. Any program requiring admin access will be prompted for permissions or did you not know that? Turn it on "no prompt" or silent and permissions are elevated silently.

What improved network performance do you think a home user will see? Are you serious? People like you who call people like me trolls are seriously pretty damn funny. A new TCP/IP stack will not improve a home users performance much at all if any.

Get off your high horse and stop calling people with different opinions than your's a troll. You have provided zero evidence of a compelling reason to upgrade. Unless you call a system like LUA that can and will be easily circumvented by a user let alone malicious intenders, or "improved" network performance when you can't quatify the improvement levels for a home user real reasons. You calling me a troll is the pot calling the kettle black.

We are agreed that there are few AT members who post useful knowledge. That may have something to do with knowledgeable people with diffrerent opinions than your's having to put up with the likes of you. Say what you will... I'll bow out, I haven't got the time to argue with you. If people choose to listen to you... what do I care? It's not like it's my money being thown away. It's not like they will be worse off OS wise (well I'd at aleast wait a bit before diving in.) It just doesn't make sense to upgrade. You believe it does.. I for one am willing to agree to disagree.. we'll see if you continue to troll about or move on.

 

[stash]

As far as you not knowing what I am saying I suggest you read up on the prompts. Any program requiring admin access will be prompted for permissions or did you not know that? Turn it on "no prompt" or silent and permissions are elevated silently.

I use Vista every day. Where is the option to suppress cred or consent UI prompts?

Get off your high horse and stop calling people with different opinions than your's a troll

I have no problem with differing opinions. I do have problems with FUD. LUA and low rights IE will be major reasons for people to upgrade. Sure you can do LUA on XP with runas and some tweaks, I do it on my laptop. But most people have no idea how to do that, nor do they have the inclination to figure it out.

Since apparently these improvements are not enough to sway you to upgrade, I wonder what you would deem worthy of an upgrade. I have laid out several new features that will be beneficial to both home and business users. There are over 2000 new features in Vista, so there is much more than what I've listed.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: stash

As far as you not knowing what I am saying I suggest you read up on the prompts. Any program requiring admin access will be prompted for permissions or did you not know that? Turn it on "no prompt" or silent and permissions are elevated silently.

I use Vista every day. Where is the option to suppress cred or consent UI prompts?

Get off your high horse and stop calling people with different opinions than your's a troll

I have no problem with differing opinions. I do have problems with FUD. LUA and low rights IE will be major reasons for people to upgrade. Sure you can do LUA on XP with runas and some tweaks, I do it on my laptop. But most people have no idea how to do that, nor do they have the inclination to figure it out.

Since apparently these improvements are not enough to sway you to upgrade, I wonder what you would deem worthy of an upgrade. I have laid out several new features that will be beneficial to both home and business users. There are over 2000 new features in Vista, so there is much more than what I've listed.

What would sway me to upgrade is when the tasks I rely on my OS to accomplish can no longer be accomplished or can be accomplished much easier or faster with no degredation of security. I know that is highly general, but it is the rationale I use. Vista has not been proven in the wild, therefore it fails on all accounts for me. the upgrade to XP Pro for me just "happened", no real rhyme or reason for it, I also use 2000 Pro everyday as well and I am pretty much content with it.

I will agree that Vista may provide some security enhancements for home users, but it is yet to be seen if these are "real" or pie in the sky. They appear real on paper, but as I previously mentioned if the features can be disabled for ease of use, they very well may be.

As for where the supression of UI prompts is located see the Tech Net here.

Here it is pulled from the site:

Name of Policy Description

UAC: Behavior of the elevation prompt


-Determines how the user is prompted prior to running a program with higher permissions


-No Prompt - Silently elevate


-Prompt for Consent - Ask the user whether to continue (Yes/No)


Prompt for Credentials - Require the user to enter login password before continuing (*)

This policy is only in effect when UAC is enabled.

Note: For most situations, the No Prompt selection is NOT recommended. No Prompt elevation would permit UAC applications to launch admin applications without your knowledge or consent.



Additionally do you happen to know how many applications there are that will not function correctly unless full admin access is granted by default? According to MS it is any program not designed to run under UAC. How many are there? It appears that everything designed or 2000 and up will work...

 

[stash]

Most of the information on that technet page is way out of date. The group policy setting on that page controlling the prompt behavior doesn't exist in that form anymore. There are currently about six GPO settings for UAP, and the closest one gives two options: prompt for credentials or no prompt. There is no option to allow the user to use the consent UI, where credentials are not entered.

If an administrator configures these settings, the user will be unable to change them without knowing the administrator password. And if the user knows the administrator password, there isn't much that can be done to prevent them from reconfiguring things. That will always be the case. However, if users leave the settings alone, it will be very difficult for malware to run within an elevated context.

Additionally do you happen to know how many applications there are that will not function correctly unless full admin access is granted by default? According to MS it is any program not designed to run under UAC

I do not know how many, but there will be a virtualization layer to help work around crappy applications. So when an app requires access to an area of the file system or registry that is restricted to a regular user (HKLM, Program Files, etc), it will be redirected to a virtual store in the user's profile that holds those files and registry settings. This will not fix all crappy applications, but it will definitely help.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: stash
Most of the information on that technet page is way out of date. The group policy setting on that page controlling the prompt behavior doesn't exist in that form anymore. There are currently about six GPO settings for UAP, and the closest one gives two options: prompt for credentials or no prompt. There is no option to allow the user to use the consent UI, where credentials are not entered.

If an administrator configures these settings, the user will be unable to change them without knowing the administrator password. And if the user knows the administrator password, there isn't much that can be done to prevent them from reconfiguring things. That will always be the case. However, if users leave the settings alone, it will be very difficult for malware to run within an elevated context.

Additionally do you happen to know how many applications there are that will not function correctly unless full admin access is granted by default? According to MS it is any program not designed to run under UAC

I do not know how many, but there will be a virtualization layer to help work around crappy applications. So when an app requires access to an area of the file system or registry that is restricted to a regular user (HKLM, Program Files, etc), it will be redirected to a virtual store in the user's profile that holds those files and registry settings. This will not fix all crappy applications, but it will definitely help.

Yeah I just loaded my copy on VMware since you have hightened my interest. My settings were accessable through the start panel. Anyways.. I have decided to toy around with Vista a bit, but you aren't going to get me to change. 😛

 

[essasin]

no

 

[stash]

My settings were accessable through the start panel

Your UAP settings? Yeah that was in Beta1, but was removed after that. If you want to play, I would recommend the February CTP that will be out in a few days. It is the first public build that is feature complete. Hell, I'll even sign you up for the beta if you want.

 

[Link19]

Just stick with Windows XP. Windows XP is already a good OS. Why run an OS that will eat up more system resources? It is not necessary for the power user and gamer that desires the most system resources for user land applications.

Vista can wait until quad core CPUs and 4GB+ of RAM is the norm in home desktop computers.