DO FWD cars actually feel different than RWD when driving

[Accipiter22]

oh ok, that answers it...thanks guys

[/thread]

 

[preslove]

My beat up volvo rwd drives vastly superior to that of ANY fwd car I've driven. Taking turns in the volvo is fun, while it is a chore in fwd cars.

 

[Brutuskend]

In a rear wheel drive car the center pivot point when turning is right about where the driver is sitting. In a front wheel drive car it is moved forward of the driver. When you go into a sharp turn it feels like you are on the end of a whip rather then the car turning around you.

Did that make any sense?

 

[Lurknomore]

YES, there was an immediate diff. going from my old FWD Jetta to the RWD Toyota Cressida. No torque steer, different cornering feel. And it wasn't just the HP difference- just the entire physics differed.

It was a '92 Cressida with 130,000 miles but it's no more. Bye-bye.

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
so WHY does it feel different; like why does it feel like being pulled instead of pushed as one poster put it.....considering the powers coming from the back in a RWD wouldn't THAT one feel like it's being pushed?


also what's torque steer/understeer feel like?

Yes, RWD feels like you're being pushed.

Torque steer is when the front wheels are spinning under so much power that they're not able to precisely steer the car because they don't have traction.

Understeer can be experienced in any car, but is most prevelant in FWD cars. It basically means when you turn in hard, the nose of the car doesn't want to turn as sharp as you want it to, so you run wide through the corner.

Do your homework. That's not what torque steer is. Torque steer is a side effect of having two different length half shafts supported independently.

 

[randomlinh]

RWD FTW!

 

[0roo0roo]

probably a little, my experience is only with vastly different vehicles so its hard to compare. rwd without stability control and such is very bad in snow/rain though. fwd has weight over driving wheels and is more forgiving when abused. people generally react correctly to understeer and very badly to oversteer. before all the computer safety systems rwd was definetly more dangerous. torque steer is irrelevant for normal driving, its just a thing for very high hp engines to worry about.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
probably a little, my experience is only with vastly different vehicles so its hard to compare. rwd without stability control and such is very bad in snow/rain though. fwd has weight over driving wheels and is more forgiving when abused. people generally react correctly to understeer and very badly to oversteer. before all the computer safety systems rwd was definetly more dangerous. torque steer is irrelevant for normal driving, its just a thing for very high hp engines to worry about.

MR has the weight-over-driving-wheels advantage too, but not quite so much on the forgiving side.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Falcon39
Do your homework. That's not what torque steer is. Torque steer is a side effect of having two different length half shafts supported independently.

Wrong. Although unequal-length half-shafts will make torque steer worse, that is not the underlying cause.

The cause is the gyroscopic effect of the steered wheels combined with the fact that the pivot axis of the steering is not centered in the width of the tread. If both wheels are spinning at the same speed, the net gyroscopic torque cancels itself out. When one wheel begins to spin faster than the other, the gyroscopic from that wheel overpowers the other and generates a steering force which is transmitted through the steering wheel and noticed by the driver. A limited slip differential will cure torque steer in the straight line. Unequal-length halfshafts will affect the torque distribution to the wheels with an open differential and will make torque steer worse, but it's not the underlying cause since even cars with equal length half-shafts will torque steer, albeit less than a car with unequal-length half-shafts.

Those saying that torque steer is only an issue for "very high HP", will please explain why it is an issue in my parents' Maxima which only has 190 hp.

ZV

 

[RU482]

I miss the 87 Cutlass Supreme I had in high school
donuts baby

 

[yhelothar]

My last car was a 92corolla, and my current car is a RWD Miata.
I'd say for normal street driving, if you drive like a regular person that doesn't go crazy or aggressively, there's no real difference IMO. Torque steer doesn't come in until you put a lot of power to the front wheels when you're turning.
But it's quite easy to oversteer with a RWD car, making it more dangerous for a new driver. One has to be very careful not to put to much power to the wheels when making a turn, or the car would start sliding out of control.
But then again, being able to oversteer really quickly can save you in certain situations, when you need to quickly get out of traffic's way when doing a left turn merge, for example.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
rwd without stability control and such is very bad in snow/rain though.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

RWD is no trouble at all in the rain in any car I've ever driven. None. You'd have to be an incredibly incompetant driver or have the world's crappiest tires to have issues with RWD in the rain.

RWD in the snow is perfectly fine too as long as the driver is even basically competant. I drove through 8-10 inches of un-plowed snow in my 924S with summer tires and didn't have a problem.

If you need FWD (or sh*t like traction or stability control) to get by in the winter on normal roads, you should not be allowed to drive because you obviously don't have even the most basic driving skills.

Up until the 1980's, nearly every car was RWD and people didn't have problems driving them in the winter.

ZV

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
rwd without stability control and such is very bad in snow/rain though.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

RWD is no trouble at all in the rain in any car I've ever driven. None. You'd have to be an incredibly incompetant driver or have the world's crappiest tires to have issues with RWD in the rain.

RWD in the snow is perfectly fine too as long as the driver is even basically competant. I drove through 8-10 inches of un-plowed snow in my 924S with summer tires and didn't have a problem.

If you need FWD (or sh*t like traction or stability control) to get by in the winter on normal roads, you should not be allowed to drive because you obviously don't have even the most basic driving skills.

Up until the 1980's, nearly every car was RWD and people didn't have problems driving them in the winter.

ZV

Wow some people defend their cars as if it was their religion. :roll:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Wow some people defend their cars as if it was their religion. :roll:

No, some people are just sick of people who push blatantly false information as fact. The idea that RWD is automatically bad in rain and snow is complete bullcrap and it needs to be refuted.

How the hell do you get the idea that I'm defending my own car out of my post anyway?

ZV

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
rwd without stability control and such is very bad in snow/rain though.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

RWD is no trouble at all in the rain in any car I've ever driven. None. You'd have to be an incredibly incompetant driver or have the world's crappiest tires to have issues with RWD in the rain.

RWD in the snow is perfectly fine too as long as the driver is even basically competant. I drove through 8-10 inches of un-plowed snow in my 924S with summer tires and didn't have a problem.

If you need FWD (or sh*t like traction or stability control) to get by in the winter on normal roads, you should not be allowed to drive because you obviously don't have even the most basic driving skills.

Up until the 1980's, nearly every car was RWD and people didn't have problems driving them in the winter.

ZV

Wow some people defend their cars as if it was their religion. :roll:

no kidding,i was talking about the normal common person, not a l337 driver like him

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
There's a HUGE difference on snow and ice.

Its not a bug, its a feature! we at <insert car company> designed the <insert car> with a poor weight distribution with the intent of increasing winter traction!

:roll:

just thing of all the money GM could have saves if they made that argument for the Corvair.

 

[preslove]

Somewhat offtopic: What's the cheapest rwd model made today? Can you get one for under $19 grand? Also, WTH are fwd cars cheaper than RWD?

 

[AdamK47]

pushed > pulled

 

[dug777]

It's a world of difference. Just hit a roundabout & you'll immediately be able to tell. If you haven't already spun the tires

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no kidding,i was talking about the normal common person, not a l337 driver like him

I'm no great driver. My mother and grandmother grew up driving RWD in snow and rain, so did your mother and grandmother. The simple fact is that anyone can manage it safely if he or she is willing to pay attention. "normal common" people were driving RWD cars in all kinds of inclement weather for decades without incidents.

ZV

 

[0roo0roo]

eh don't go into the past, accident and death statistics were pretty grim in the past.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove
Somewhat offtopic: What's the cheapest rwd model made today? Can you get one for under $19 grand? Also, WTH are fwd cars cheaper than RWD?

Probably the least expensive RWD car in America right now is the base Miata.

FWD cars are cheaper because they cost slightly less to manufacture (mainly materials cost because of the space savings) and because inexpensive cars are typically small in terms of exterior dimensions which makes the packaging efficiency of FWD a superior choice for vehicles where space is the most important factor. Look at the exterior dimensions of the Mustang and then get inside. It's very small inside for its size because the RWD drivetrain takes up a lot of room. A Focus is dimensionally smaller on the outside, but offers more room inside because it's FWD. Inexpensive cars are FWD because of both the cost advantage and the space-saving.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
eh don't go into the past, accident and death statistics were pretty grim in the past.

Can't compare modern cars that have three-point seat belts and airbags with cars that didn't even have lap belts or padded dashboards.

ZV

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Somewhat offtopic: What's the cheapest rwd model made today? Can you get one for under $19 grand? Also, WTH are fwd cars cheaper than RWD?

Probably the least expensive RWD car in America right now is the base Miata.

FWD cars are cheaper because they cost slightly less to manufacture (mainly materials cost because of the space savings) and because inexpensive cars are typically small in terms of exterior dimensions which makes the packaging efficiency of FWD a superior choice for vehicles where space is the most important factor. Look at the exterior dimensions of the Mustang and then get inside. It's very small inside for its size because the RWD drivetrain takes up a lot of room. A Focus is dimensionally smaller on the outside, but offers more room inside because it's FWD. Inexpensive cars are FWD because of both the cost advantage and the space-saving.

ZV

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense. But the non-gt mustang is cheaper ($19ish?) than the base miata, so I guess that's the cheapest. Man, I'm probably going to have get a used fwd car because my volvo is falling apart. It makes me

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Somewhat offtopic: What's the cheapest rwd model made today? Can you get one for under $19 grand? Also, WTH are fwd cars cheaper than RWD?

Probably the least expensive RWD car in America right now is the base Miata.

FWD cars are cheaper because they cost slightly less to manufacture (mainly materials cost because of the space savings) and because inexpensive cars are typically small in terms of exterior dimensions which makes the packaging efficiency of FWD a superior choice for vehicles where space is the most important factor. Look at the exterior dimensions of the Mustang and then get inside. It's very small inside for its size because the RWD drivetrain takes up a lot of room. A Focus is dimensionally smaller on the outside, but offers more room inside because it's FWD. Inexpensive cars are FWD because of both the cost advantage and the space-saving.

ZV

a bit tangential but FWD is also a little more efficient in terms of drivetrain losses assuming same transmission type. Thus better fuel economy, another reason econoboxes are all fwd.