Do DVI LCD Monitors look as good as Apple Cinema Display Flat-panels?

[Idoxash]

Yeah a Widescreen would be kewl! The thing is as I know there are none for x86 base computers.

--Idoxash

 

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by: Idoxash
Yeah a Widescreen would be kewl! The thing is as I know there are none for x86 base computers.

--Idoxash

Here's a nice Sony.

And a little Samsung

 

[Gunbuster]

Now I have read in some other forums people talking about their Cinema displays putting black bars on the side and not stretching it out

In your vid. card settings look for the strech to fit box and un check it, then just set it to the native vertical resolution

 

[isaacmacdonald]

I have the 17" studio display. It's certainly bright as hell, but the dmax is a little weak. Everything from dark grey -> black looks black. Sucks for proofing.

I agree with the store model statement though. For some bizarre reason, compusa/circuit city/et al seem to put out a bunch of low quality lcds on display. For a rare treat, go to BB and check out their mitsubishi LCD. It blows the studio display away. Very bright, much better dmax range.

 

[sciencewhiz]

I heard that Apple has two different grades of cinema displays. One of which is cheap and sucks, and the one that they generally display (and costs quite a bit more) that looks beautiful. Granted, I heard this on slashdot, but buyer beware.

 

[addragyn]

The first Cinema Display was 22" (1600x1024) and introduced in 1999. It sold for $3,999. Remember LCD prices in 1999? That was a giant panel then. Some of the earliest 22" Cinemas made have a DVI connection.

Apple's new Cinema Displays come in 20" (1680x1050) and 23" (1920x1200) sizes. They cost $1,299 and $1,999 respectively. These newer panels have a few years of technology on their older brother. When the 23" was introduced it had a price of $3,999. It was discounted in January of this year. Feel sorry for those early adopters!

The current 17" panel has been around for a very long time. It's expected that it will be replaced by a widescreen 17" soon. This makes sense as Apple is using a widescreen 17" LCD on the iMac and the PowerBook.

Suprisingly Apple is actually very price competitive with their Cinema Displays.

How The 23-Inch Cinema Compares

There are several 22 to 24-inch high resolution LCD displays on the market. And, until today, Apple's 23-inch unit was among the most expensive. Let's see where it fits in today.

* Samsung 241MP (16:10 aspect ratio) $4,400 (street price) - 1920x1200
* Samsung 240T (16:10 aspect ratio) $3,000 (street price) - 1920x1200
* KDS RAD-23 (4:3 aspect ratio) $2,900 (street price) - 1600x1200
* LG Electronics LM295 (4:3 aspect ratio) $3,000 (street price) - 1600x1200
* Sony SDM-P232 (16:10 aspect ratio) $2,600 (street price) - 1920x1200
* Viewsonic VP230MP (4:3 aspect ratio) $2,900 (street price) - 1600x1200
* Apple 23" Cinema Display (16:10 aspect ratio) $1,999 MSRP - 1920x1200

Where The 20.1-Inch Cinema Fits

The 20-inch range of LCDs is more crowded, so we're restricting our comparison to displays from name brand manufacturers, and to units with comparably strong specifications. Here's how they look.

* Formac Gallery 2010 (4:3 aspect ratio) $1,699 MSRP - 1600x1200
* NEC-Mitsubishi LCD2080UX (4:3 aspect ratio) $1,300 (street price) - 1600x1200
* Viewsonic VP201MB (4:3 aspect ratio) $1,500 (street price) - 1600x1200
* Sony SDM-X202 (4:3 aspect ratio) $1,700 (street price) - 1600x1200
* Apple 20" Cinema Display (16:10 aspect ratio) $1,299 MSRP - 1680x1050 link

Now some of those prices may be a bit high. But the point is not so much the specific numbers as it is where they sit in relation to the others.


isaacmacdonald: I have the 17" studio display. It's certainly bright as hell, but the dmax is a little weak. Everything from dark grey -> black looks black. Sucks for proofing.

If you're not doing any hardware color correction you can still do some manual calibration. SuperCal is a great program for OS X(don't know about 9) and Display Mate will work on Windows.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: jasonsRX7

Originally posted by: Idoxash
Yeah a Widescreen would be kewl! The thing is as I know there are none for x86 base computers.

--Idoxash

Here's a nice Sony.

And a little Samsung

That's what I want. Right freakin there. The 17" Widescreen Samsung!

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: jasonsRX7
And a little Samsung

That's what I want. Right freakin there. The 17" Widescreen Samsung!

Well, it doesn't look too bad, but the horizontal resolution is no greater than Samsung's "standard" 5:4 17 inch LCD, and the vertical resolution is the same as your typical 15 inch flatpanel. I'd rather have one of the famous 17 inch SGI LCDs that did 1600x1024... if I could find (and afford) a used one (sadly, they've been discontinued).

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: jasonsRX7
And a little Samsung

That's what I want. Right freakin there. The 17" Widescreen Samsung!

Well, it doesn't look too bad, but the horizontal resolution is no greater than Samsung's "standard" 5:4 17 inch LCD, and the vertical resolution is the same as your typical 15 inch flatpanel. I'd rather have one of the famous 17 inch SGI LCDs that did 1600x1024... if I could find (and afford) a used one (sadly, they've been discontinued).

Yup, my thoughts exactly. This isn't a stretched out 17" screen. It's a stretched out 15" screen. IMO its going to be a bit small for watching movies, and not offer much more screen space than a normal aspect 17 incher, that you can probably get for a similar or lower price.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: SexyK
Yup, my thoughts exactly. This isn't a stretched out 17" screen. It's a stretched out 15" screen. IMO its going to be a bit small for watching movies, and not offer much more screen space than a normal aspect 17 incher, that you can probably get for a similar or lower price.

At newegg right now, the 172T (5:4 version) is US$575, while the 172W is US$609. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to pay more to get less (i.e. the chopped off version).

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: SexyK
Yup, my thoughts exactly. This isn't a stretched out 17" screen. It's a stretched out 15" screen. IMO its going to be a bit small for watching movies, and not offer much more screen space than a normal aspect 17 incher, that you can probably get for a similar or lower price.

At newegg right now, the 172T (5:4 version) is US$575, while the 172W is US$609. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to pay more to get less (i.e. the chopped off version).

Right, that's my point, the 172T gives you 1310720 pixels for $575 and the 172W gives you 983040 pixels for $609. I'd love a widescreen, but i'd want at least 1600x1024 resolution at a price comparable to a 17" 5:4 screen.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: SexyK

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: SexyK
Yup, my thoughts exactly. This isn't a stretched out 17" screen. It's a stretched out 15" screen. IMO its going to be a bit small for watching movies, and not offer much more screen space than a normal aspect 17 incher, that you can probably get for a similar or lower price.

At newegg right now, the 172T (5:4 version) is US$575, while the 172W is US$609. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to pay more to get less (i.e. the chopped off version).

Right, that's my point, the 172T gives you 1310720 pixels for $575 and the 172W gives you 983040 pixels for $609. I'd love a widescreen, but i'd want at least 1600x1024 resolution at a price comparable to a 17" 5:4 screen.

Ha, good points....I guess it would be better to either get a larger widescreen, or a standard 17".

 

[Nutdotnet]

What about the Mitsubishi NXM76LCD-BK? Supposedly it has DVI and it priced at $450 after MIR.

That sounds like a pretty good deal for a 17".

 

[Viper96720]

The samsung is cool I got one and it looks great. Well to me anyways since it's the first LCD I got. If you set the resolution anything other than native. There's a setting to
make the image normal or fullscreen. Normal will leave black bars and fullscreen will stretch it out.

 

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster

Now I have read in some other forums people talking about their Cinema displays putting black bars on the side and not stretching it out

In your vid. card settings look for the strech to fit box and un check it, then just set it to the native vertical resolution

Thank you for the tip Gunbuster. I had never even thought to look in the driver settings. I thought it was something the monitor did on its own. But sure enough, setting it to 'Centered output' keeps it from stretching the display....

Thanks!

 

[Ryan]

Hell, the only widescreen I'd drop money on woudl be the SGI 1600SW - it kicks your LCDs asses!

 

[Viper96720]

SGI and the Samsung screen size is about the same. But the SGI's dot pitch is way better .23 vs .29 hence the higher resolution for the SGI.

 

[Apex]

Apple quietly upgraded the 23" Cinema HD display in February, 2003. Before, it was the same old 40ms total average response time LG-Philips panel that the 23" Sony uses. Now, it uses the one that Accord99 has (correctly) posted. It's also rumored that they pay about $500 for the bare 23" panel now. The new 23" is a real contender, up there with the Samsung 240T. The old one was too slow for gaming for most people who call themselves gamers. Except for the ugly casing and ADC plug, it's an extremely desirable display.

 

[InfraggableKrunk]

Originally posted by: Apex
Apple quietly upgraded the 23" Cinema HD display in February, 2003. Before, it was the same old 40ms total average response time LG-Philips panel that the 23" Sony uses. Now, it uses the one that Accord99 has (correctly) posted. It's also rumored that they pay about $500 for the bare 23" panel now. The new 23" is a real contender, up there with the Samsung 240T. The old one was too slow for gaming for most people who call themselves gamers. Except for the ugly casing and ADC plug, it's an extremely desirable display.

Finally someone who knows what they are talking about

are some of you guys such Mac haters that you cant even give them credit when its due

maybe its because its youve never seen a new apple 23" cinema display WITH CORRECT GAMMA LEVELS, i mean most of you are basing your opinions on a stock unfixed screen

How many here can say that they havent changed their gamma settings, if you happened consider yourself a noob

Simply put with the Apple Cinema Display setting the 23" IS THE BEST MONITOR I HAVE ever seen

you want more proof

Open a new photoshop canvas, make it about 1600X1200, just draw with different shades and different gradients
now save the picture as a level 12 jpg, then save it again as a level 11 jpeg

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A MONITOR so pure, so clear, so vibrant that I could actually see a slight difference between theese settings

Can your LCD do that.. i doubt it


btw first post here, can i get a Woot from my UCLA peeps

 

[amgkid]

w00t

<-- gonna try what you said with my 2000FP

 

[geimd03]

I was debating about getting the Apple Cinema Display then I read reviews on Samsung 24inch LCD 240T. I believe this monitor blows away Apple in 3 areas. First there is not much ghosting when you play dvd or fast moving games compared to apples display. Second this monitor has svideo and composite inputs allowing you to connect vcr, dvd etc. Third it has PIP and split screen ability so you can use computer and video source at same time. Also the price has dropped from 3k to $2569.


240t review pcstat

240t review edgereview

gamepc review

 

[Cadaver]

Replaced a PowerMac with an Athlon XP machine about 8-9 months ago... but kept the 22" Apple Cinema Display (1600x1024).
Beautiful. Absolutely fantastic picture. Crystal clear text (NO blurriness at all even with ClearType). A wee bit of ghosting on fast moving games, but really not significant. For text/2D graphics, just can't do better.
All the resolutions seem to be supported by my Radeon 8500. Works perfectly thru a $79 ADC to DVI converter (even the USB ports on the monitor work thru the adapter).
Maybe not as bright as my Dell 1800FP, but much sharper with far better contrast and greyscale.

Edit- the 22" model is the only Apple LCD that has physical brightness control buttons. All the other models (17, 20, 23") have software controls, and AFAIK there is no Windows driver for the software-controlled models.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: jasonsRX7

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
How do Digital LCD Monitors compare? I haven't seen one in action, as I have an Analog 15".

The Cinema displays are digital LCD monitors. They simply use a proprietary connector called ADC rather than your standard DVI connector. The ADC connection provides video signal, power, and USB to the monitor, all in one cable.

I have long been using a device called the DVIator to convert the DVI connection on my PC to an ADC connection so that I can use a Cinema display on my PC. It works very well, although as JackBurton noted in another thread today, the DVIator has not been tested with the 23" Cinema Display, and may not work (although I don't have an idea as to why). I can tell you it does work beautifully on the 22" display, and even Anand himself has used one in the past on his own PC.

here's some pics

I haven't read all the replies so this may have come up but doesn't Anand have a dual display for the Apple Cinema Displays?

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Gunbuster
I think the main reason everyone gets a boner for apple screens (in the store) is that the apple is on DVI to one machine, the rest (PC) are usualy on a monitor farm/splitter in analog mode at the wrong resolution in worse lighting.

...tis very true.

 

[Eug]

The Samsung 172T is definitely superior to the Apple 17" Studio Display last I checked. Plus the 172T is DVI and VGA. The Apple is ADC only, which is a pain. Even Mac laptops don't sport ADC connectors, and the converter costs $$$.

The old Apple Cinema Displays were nice, but nothing special. The new ones are truly breathtaking, but as others have already mentioned, the praise shouldn't really go to Apple but to the companies like Samsung and LG (or whoever) who actually make them.

I am glad they finally reduced the price. The old prices truly were suck. I should have figured something was up when I bought my TiBook, and Apple offered me CAD$600 off the 17" Studio Display price. (Despite the fact that the Samsung 172T was better, it was still cheaper, even after the Apple $600 discount.)

BTW, DVI and ADC quality will be identical with the same screen. ADC is simply DVI in a different package, with power and other stuff thrown in.