do car shops make buttloads of money?

[Pacfanweb]

I totally disagree. I know PLENTY of mechanics who never had any more than a Craftsman box, maybe some odd Snap On or Mac wrenches, and mostly Craftsman basic other tools, and these guys were some of the biggest hour-turners and best mechanics I know.

As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about all the best guys I know, I'm having trouble thinking of a single one that has anywhere near a "modern" tool setup, and not a single one that doesn't have quite a bit of Craftsman and other "cheap" brands in his box.

You absolutely do NOT "need" a damn thing off the Snap On truck. That's just a rationalization that mechanics have developed over the years to justify paying 5 times what a tool should cost.

Tools from other places have come a long, long way. For example, the Kobalt wrenches you can buy at Lowes are excellent. Probably 98% as good a quality wrench as Snap On, and a fraction of the cost, and they're lifetime warranty as well.

Snap On is a hell of a price to pay for the convenience of the tool truck coming by every Thursday. All it is, is a mechanic's candy store on wheels. You go on it, you can't help but make up an excuse why you need this or that.

For some specialty tools...yes. Tool truck might be the only place. But you have to watch even that, because there's a lot of Snap On stuff that's just rebadged tools from other manufacturers that you could get a lot cheaper, too.

As far as tool boxes go.....all they do is hold your tools. When I was starting out, and some of my buddies started buying $3k (back then, that was a load) boxes, the excuse was, "well, they have roller bearing drawers" (big f-ing deal) and "they're heavier duty" (again, big f-ing deal...it's a box that sits there and holds your tools, you don't drive the damn thing)

There is zero legitimate reason to buy one of those over-inflated boxes off a tool truck. You can get a big-ass upper and lower box from Northern Tool, that has roller bearing drawers and it will hold just as many tools as a similar size "name" box, and won't cost 1500 bucks. And will still be there, faithfully holding your tools, 30 years later.

Not one single solitary legitimate reason for those huge-ass boxes, other than "I want it". And hey, it's your money, if you have it and want one, by all means get it. Fill it up with everything right off the Snap On or Mac truck. Just don't sit there and tell me you "need" it, and that you those high-dollar tools will make you one single dime more than less-expensive tools will, because I know different. And when you factor in the exorbitant cost, even if they DID make a $ difference here and there, it still wouldn't come close to making up the difference.

 

[Jimzz]

^



I agree with 99% of what you said, even when I was a mechanic and had my own shop I had no snapon/mac/etc... tools. It was more "mid" level tools.
My tool box is from harborfreight. Their nice boxes are roller and work great. Less than $400 with all the features of more costly boxes.




But I disagree about the "Kobalt wrenches you can buy at Lowes are excellent". They cheapened the line in the last year. They got rid of task force, their "low" end line and now most kobalt are made in china. I have some older kobakt wrenches and they are miles ahead in terms of quality of the new kobalts.


So yea for those that want to get into the auto world don't go into debt on "high" end tools and boxs.

 

[Wingznut]

When I first became a mechanic, I thought the same thing... "Who would spend that much money on Snap On stuff, when Craftsman is just as good?"

That "savings" was quickly lost when a Craftsman socket broke, and it took me twice as long to get the job done.

Remember, techs are paid flat rate. So, if changing an exhaust manifold pays two hours, and it took you three hours because you just rounded off a bolt due to a cheap wrench, you learn quickly how important it is to have the best tools.

Don't get me wrong... Craftsman and the like are just fine for the weekend mechanic. But when paying your mortgage depends on how quickly you can get jobs done, those cheap tools just aren't worth it.

 

[Jimzz]

^

In all my years I have only broke a socket a couple times and that was using a regular socket on a 1/2 air gun or large breaker bar. I've never broke a tool using it the proper way.

 

[Wingznut]

I've never broke a tool using it the proper way.

NEVER? I presume by "mid-level tool" you mean like Craftsman?

Then I'm calling shens on your absolute statement... I've seen plenty of sockets, ratchets (lots of ratchets!), air tools, breaker bars, etc. all break with "proper" usage.

 

[Pacfanweb]

NEVER? I presume by "mid-level tool" you mean like Craftsman?

Then I'm calling shens on your absolute statement... I've seen plenty of sockets, ratchets (lots of ratchets!), air tools, breaker bars, etc. all break with "proper" usage.

Thing is, why does breaking a Craftsman really cost you any time? Any competent mechanic has at least two of everything no matter what brand it is, so you take the broken socket off, put it on top of your box to take back to Sears later, and use your backup. I've broken plenty of Snap On, Mac and Cornwell tools, too.

I can definitely see having some good wrenches from Mac or the like. And even some sockets, if you can get a good deal on them somewhere like Craigslist. They DO fit tighter on nuts and bolts.

But there is absolutely ZERO reason for a mechanic to have 20k worth of tools. That's just ridiculously unnecessary. And the humongous toolboxes are just beyond any justification to own, other than "I want one".

As far as the Kobalts from Lowes, mine are almost ten years old, so if they've dropped in quality, I hadn't heard. I have the ones with the geared closed ends, and they've been excellent.

 

[Jimzz]

NEVER? I presume by "mid-level tool" you mean like Craftsman?

Then I'm calling shens on your absolute statement... I've seen plenty of sockets, ratchets (lots of ratchets!), air tools, breaker bars, etc. all break with "proper" usage.

Only time I have broken a normal socket was using it on a air gun, ratchet was by slipping a pipe on the end of it, breaker bar again pipe extension, etc... Right tool for the right job works fine. I've broke plenty of tools but that was using them outside their area or not as attended.

Never broke a good "mid" level tool by using it the way its designed. I've had harbor freight air tool go bad once, cheap $5 socket sets crap out, etc...

And I agree with Pacfanweb. I have several sockets/bits/wrenchs that I need in different styles/sizes so even if I lost one or a cheaper "I'll only use this once cheap one" breaks I have a backup. Mercedes uses a lot of T30 screws. But I needed different lengths and styles to work on them so I have several T30's from wrench, sockets, safety vs non safety, etc... Others its to cut up ones for special times, mostly modded cars but even regular ones as well.

 

[leper84]

As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about all the best guys I know, I'm having trouble thinking of a single one that has anywhere near a "modern" tool setup, and not a single one that doesn't have quite a bit of Craftsman and other "cheap" brands in his box.

You can cheap out on some stuff. Just plane jane impact sockets you'd most likely be find buying something like Pittsburgh. Craftsman non-ratcheting wrenches would even be fine. But what about everything else? Can you get anything equivalent to a power probe at Sears or Lowes? What about a tap and die set? Steering wheel/ pulley puller set? What about a set for those pressed on pulleys? Ball joint set? Swivel impact sockets? Snap ring pliers that last more than a day? Air hammer? Chisel set you don't have to grind into shape every use? Should I keep typing out a list, cause thats just scratching the surface of basic tools every single tech needs.

What about the stuff Craftsman makes that just isn't worth a damn. What about torque wrenches? Ever since Craftsman sent production overseas their torque wrenches have been absolute shit. What about air tools? Every single new Craftsman air tool I've seen in a shop broke within a couple months. They have like what, a 90 day warranty? They also won't honor the warranty on their 'professional' line of air tools if they find out you're using them for work. Then you have stuff like ratchets, screwdrivers, prybars, ratcheting wrenches, pliers that just plain look like toddler toys compared to how good Snap on is.

You absolutely do NOT "need" a damn thing off the Snap On truck. That's just a rationalization that mechanics have developed over the years to justify paying 5 times what a tool should cost.

Tools from other places have come a long, long way. For example, the Kobalt wrenches you can buy at Lowes are excellent. Probably 98% as good a quality wrench as Snap On, and a fraction of the cost, and they're lifetime warranty as well.

Snap On is a hell of a price to pay for the convenience of the tool truck coming by every Thursday. All it is, is a mechanic's candy store on wheels. You go on it, you can't help but make up an excuse why you need this or that.

For some specialty tools...yes. Tool truck might be the only place. But you have to watch even that, because there's a lot of Snap On stuff that's just rebadged tools from other manufacturers that you could get a lot cheaper, too.

You don't need a damn thing off the Snap on truck, except the huge amount of crap no one else sells. Its not just some specialty tools, its almost every single thing you use. Being a technician is a little bit more than box end wrenches and sockets. You can get some Lisle and OTC stuff cheaper, and guess what? Tool trucks sell those too. Find a good tool guy and he won't dare sell you on the Snap on or Mac set when something specific from Lisle is half the price and still wont break.

You can also find some sets for cheaper online. Which would I rather do? Buy a tool off Amazon, it breaks. Call up, spend forever setting up a return, mail it in, hope that the warranty isn't out yet, wait forever them to inventory the return and ship the replacement out; if it is out of warranty buy it again. OR, I can make an investment, buy the Snap on brand and never have to spend a single cent on that set ever again. Not for the rest of my life. If it breaks, Snap on guy comes to my work, fixes or trades out on the spot. I spend more up front but less in the long run. That is what the 'hell of a price to pay' is for. The highest quality with the absolute best warranty.

As far as tool boxes go.....all they do is hold your tools. When I was starting out, and some of my buddies started buying $3k (back then, that was a load) boxes, the excuse was, "well, they have roller bearing drawers" (big f-ing deal) and "they're heavier duty" (again, big f-ing deal...it's a box that sits there and holds your tools, you don't drive the damn thing)

There is zero legitimate reason to buy one of those over-inflated boxes off a tool truck. You can get a big-ass upper and lower box from Northern Tool, that has roller bearing drawers and it will hold just as many tools as a similar size "name" box, and won't cost 1500 bucks. And will still be there, faithfully holding your tools, 30 years later.

Actually, yeah it will cost 1500 bucks. The most reasonable, usable box Northern Tool has is the 56" Homak that goes for $1300 + shipping + tax. You can go on craigslist and find even a used Snap on box for that price. Don't even get me started on the two cabs US general makes, the ones that aren't even 20in deep. I can agree with you that people buying the Epiq series type boxes are just doing it for pride. But there is a valid point for having a solid box with room and to me $4k is worth it.

Not one single solitary legitimate reason for those huge-ass boxes, other than "I want it". And hey, it's your money, if you have it and want one, by all means get it. Fill it up with everything right off the Snap On or Mac truck. Just don't sit there and tell me you "need" it, and that you those high-dollar tools will make you one single dime more than less-expensive tools will, because I know different. And when you factor in the exorbitant cost, even if they DID make a $ difference here and there, it still wouldn't come close to making up the difference.

....and when its those 'snap on overpriced tool truck crack candy store' tools help me get shit done faster so I'm flagging 15-20 hours a day instead of around 10... tell me again I'm wasting my money?

 

[Pacfanweb]

LOL at Snap On tools making someone able to turn 15-20 hours a day instead of 10. Riiight.

Again, people are certainly entitled to their own opinions, but there is no factual evidence that a box full of Snap On tools helps anyone make a dime more than a box full of mostly Craftsman, or even SK, supplemented with a few specialty tools that might only be available on a tool truck.

There's a middle ground here, but it's a LONG way from

I spend 2x as much on tools as I do on food per month. Do you have any idea how much (real) tools cost?

If you are spending 2x as much on tools per month on tools than food, you're doing it wrong. Unless you just started out and just bought a whole shitload of stuff off the truck and are making payments every week on it. But if you're an established mechanic with decades of experience like me and all the guys I know, and you're spending this kind of money on tools, you must not be netting much money after expenses.

 

[DVad3r]

The shop where I take my car makes a ton of cash. Good reputation, good prices, most of the customers he has spread from word of mouth and have been recommended by friends to a friend, etc etc. He also builds trusting relationships with some of his customers like me where I can repair my car and pay him 4 months down the line.

He has people lined up outside the door in the morning before the shop even opens, 7 days a week. That's the only downside, getting anything done on your car takes 1 full day or more lol, so I just leave it there.

I'm sure business is amazing for him, if it wasn't I'd be super surprised and would question why on earth he puts in all that hard work/hours...