DIY'ers - need some advice

[swanysto]

So I have been slowly renovating a home I bought about 10 months ago. Due to the previous owners taking shortcuts things have been a little more of a pain than they should, but I have dealt with it. Here comes a problem I am having a difficult time coming up with a solution for.

In the first floor bathroom, kitchen, dining room, and corridors, the previous owner laid 1/2" plywood over hardwood floor, then put 12"x12" tiles on top of that. The tiles are quality, however they are definitely styled for the 70's or 80's.

I can't pull the tiles and plywood up, unless I take it all the way past the hardwood floors, cause they glued the plywood(as well as nailed it) to the hardwood. It would be a pretty hefty demo fee, not to mention, I would have to buy all new floors.

So I was reading up on painting or staining the tile. There seem to be some really good tutorials. Seems there are mixed reviews though. Some use epoxy paints and seem to have luck as long as it isn't a bathtub that sees constant water. The tiles do not have grout, so I am not worried about that aspect. I am interested in ideas. I would like to paint and coat the floors a dark grey(graphite) with no pattern.

Anybody ever come across a project like this, or have a better idea?


For reference, the tutorial I thought sounded most useful had these steps:

1. clean floor thoroughly.
2. prime the floor with an epoxy or urethane primer. 1 coat. Let sit for 1-2 hours.
3. prime second coat. Let sit for a day or two.
3. 1st coat of epoxy garage floor paint. Let sit for 2-3 days.
4. 2nd coat. Let sit for 2-3 days.

 

[Greenman]

Using epoxy paint it would probably work, but you end up with a gas station bathroom floor.
There are times when you just have to bite the bullet and do the job right, or not do it at all. Painted tile is always going to look like painted tile.

 

[momeNt]

cringeworthy that they ensured that the original hardwood could never be used again. Nail or screwholes you probably could have restored and hidden fairly well, but glued down plywood is just godawful, not to mention you lose like 1.5" of ceiling height raising the floor up by another layer of subfloor and then tile on top.

 

[NetWareHead]

Who the hell needs to glue the plywood to the hardwoood? I did a job just like this in my own home. The old floor was nailed down to the original hardwood floor. After ripping out all of the nails, we sank the nails that broke (drove them all the way down so wouldn;t stick up. Sanded the hell out of it and then poly'd it. Now it looks great.

Never heard about staining tile. My only concern is the longevity of a painted surface that sees foot traffic. I've seen painted floors in garages and basements that were starting to peel. Post some before and after pics if you do so. I would be curious to know if this is possible. Can you share the tutorial you found about this?

As an alternative to painting the tile...it really is not that bad to remove the tile and put down a new tile floor. You can rent a machine from home depot. Forget what it is called but it is an electrically powered wheeled device with a flat blade that vibrates and essentially loosens the tile from the mortar holding it to the plywood floor. Look into that. Here is a movie of the machine in operation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwtaApMDok

 

[vi edit]

Eeewww. Painted tile? No thanks. If the plywood is glued then your best bet is probably to use an oscillating tool to pop the tile up and try to get as much thinset off the plywood as possible. You'll lose another quarter inch, but drop some 1/4" hardiboard down on it to affix whatever tile you chose to replace it with. Yes it'll cost more but will look a hell of a lot better than a paint job on tile. Plus over the long haul you won't have to do "touch up" jobs of questionable success when the paint does ultimately start to rub off.

 

[Scarpozzi]

1. Look at your door jams and thresholds. Did they have to cut them when they raised the floor 1/2" + tile thickness (probably 1/4")

Also inspect all your baseboards to see how much lower you think they'd have to go (and that may cause the walls to need work unless they're 4" baseboards and you could replace them with 6")

The work would be pretty rough to expose them, but you can hire out refinishing the existing hardwood and maybe patch those holes prior to staining.... You won't know until you see them, but it may be possible to pick a darker color and you won't notice the holes. Hard wood floors are nice to have and an upgrade over tile unless you live in the tropics.

 

[highland145]

Someone say tile tear out? I'm in. Not.

So far my good deed has cost me $1700.

 

[NoTine42]

I'd probably try appropriate leveling compound (fill in cracks) and sheet vinyl if at all possible.

Once you have a level floor, this stuff doesn't need glue to adhere.

http://www.menards.com/main/store/2...Instruct/TARKETT_FF_Tearpad_v3_MENTRPAD12.pdf

 

[SMOGZINN]

Pull the tile up, pull the nails out. Then take an adjustable skill saw and adjust the cut depth to just under the depth of the plywood they used and cut a grid pattern in the plywood. Now is the hard part. Get out your scrapper and get down there and pull up the plywood squares one at a time. If the glue it too strong, then rent a steamer with handheld attachment hit it with a bit of steam then scrape. Once you get them all up you will have glue residue on the hardwood floor, go rent yourself a floor sander from your local hardware store and sand it down.

Once you have done all that you have your choice on how to finish your hardwood floors.

EDIT: Hell, I guess I should say: Steam is hot and will burn you. Saws are sharp and will cut you. Use caution.

 

[rsutoratosu]

omg i did something similar in my kitchen, took me like 4 months, working only on weekends, to pull the old vinyl tiles out, took forever because it keep breaking apart. the adjustable circular saw is the best way and sand down the floor after.

 

[momeNt]

Pull the tile up, pull the nails out. Then take an adjustable skill saw and adjust the cut depth to just under the depth of the plywood they used and cut a grid pattern in the plywood. Now is the hard part. Get out your scrapper and get down there and pull up the plywood squares one at a time. If the glue it too strong, then rent a steamer with handheld attachment hit it with a bit of steam then scrape. Once you get them all up you will have glue residue on the hardwood floor, go rent yourself a floor sander from your local hardware store and sand it down.

Once you have done all that you have your choice on how to finish your hardwood floors.

EDIT: Hell, I guess I should say: Steam is hot and will burn you. Saws are sharp and will cut you. Use caution.

Wow! Great idea.

Take before and after pictures too. If you ever do sell the house, some people will love that you restored the original floors.

 

[vi edit]

Wow! Great idea.

Take before and after pictures too. If you ever do sell the house, some people will love that you restored the original floors.

And if it looks like hell after you leave saw marks all over the original flooring you just label it as "Beautiful distressed look hardwood floors!".

 

[SMOGZINN]

And if it looks like hell after you leave saw marks all over the original flooring you just label it as "Beautiful distressed look hardwood floors!".

Well, if you adjusted your saw right you shouldn't leave saw marks on the floor below the plywood. You should not be cutting all the way through the plywood, just scoring it so it breaks easily.

But if you should leave saw marks on the hardwood, just hit that area with the sander until smooth.

 

[vi edit]

Well, if you adjusted your saw right you shouldn't leave saw marks on the floor below the plywood. You should not be cutting all the way through the plywood, just scoring it so it breaks easily.

But if you should leave saw marks on the hardwood, just hit that area with the sander until smooth.

Just hope that it's the same depth subfloor across the whole space and that they didn't use something different in other areas if the floor is uneven.

 

[NetWareHead]

And if it looks like hell after you leave saw marks all over the original flooring you just label it as "Beautiful distressed look hardwood floors!".

lol or in other words "character"

there are apartment units for sale around me. Old building used to be a factory, now converted into residential spaces. Only thing they did to the wood flooring is throw a coat of poly on. Factory floor looks original. Gouges, huge wear patterns and tons of traffic from people or the wheeling of heavy machinery around. Good to know you can mess up and fall back on the character or distressed excuse

 

[swanysto]

1. Look at your door jams and thresholds. Did they have to cut them when they raised the floor 1/2" + tile thickness (probably 1/4")

Also inspect all your baseboards to see how much lower you think they'd have to go (and that may cause the walls to need work unless they're 4" baseboards and you could replace them with 6")

The work would be pretty rough to expose them, but you can hire out refinishing the existing hardwood and maybe patch those holes prior to staining.... You won't know until you see them, but it may be possible to pick a darker color and you won't notice the holes. Hard wood floors are nice to have and an upgrade over tile unless you live in the tropics.

1. The door jambs and thresholds were never touched. The bottom of the doors were cut to accept the higher floor.

2. Baseboards are removed. They were torn up, and not to our style, so when the floor gets figured out, we will put in new baseboard.

3. The holes are the least of my worry, we fixed the whole in the rooms where they put carpet over the hardwood. The issue is the glue they used. It basically destroys the floors. There is no coming back from that.

 

[swanysto]

Pull the tile up, pull the nails out. Then take an adjustable skill saw and adjust the cut depth to just under the depth of the plywood they used and cut a grid pattern in the plywood. Now is the hard part. Get out your scrapper and get down there and pull up the plywood squares one at a time. If the glue it too strong, then rent a steamer with handheld attachment hit it with a bit of steam then scrape. Once you get them all up you will have glue residue on the hardwood floor, go rent yourself a floor sander from your local hardware store and sand it down.

Once you have done all that you have your choice on how to finish your hardwood floors.

EDIT: Hell, I guess I should say: Steam is hot and will burn you. Saws are sharp and will cut you. Use caution.

That flooring has been there for over 20 years, I can't imagine that it will look even a little decent after removing the tile and underlay. It might be something to think about, but that could take a long time.

 

[Scarpozzi]

1. The door jambs and thresholds were never touched. The bottom of the doors were cut to accept the higher floor.

2. Baseboards are removed. They were torn up, and not to our style, so when the floor gets figured out, we will put in new baseboard.

3. The holes are the least of my worry, we fixed the whole in the rooms where they put carpet over the hardwood. The issue is the glue they used. It basically destroys the floors. There is no coming back from that.

I can't speak for old-school hardwood installations, but newer ones use these nails:

It has an L shape to it and there are typically 3-8 nails per board.

If you wanted to remove the hardwood flooring, it wouldn't be too bad to demo if you used a 3/4" deep cut on a circular saw to cut out a good sized section to start pulling with claw hammers and crowbars. Since it's tongue and groove, you just want to start pulling it up from the tongue side as that's the side with the nails. Once you get a few of the rows up, it will get easier...especially if you get enough space to use a longer pry bar for leverage (away from walls).

Laying hardwood floors isn't bad, but time consuming when doing 1"-2.25" strip flooring. 3.25"+ plank flooring definitely goes quicker. I've laid around 4000 square feet of the stuff and will soon be doing another 1000 on a project I'm working on. My back hates it when I do that stuff, but the work can go quick once you get the hang of it.

If you're only doing a kitchen, you could pull the floor up, check the subfloor, replace any weak plywood...then decide what to put back down.

 

[alien42]

Pull the tile up, pull the nails out. Then take an adjustable skill saw and adjust the cut depth to just under the depth of the plywood they used and cut a grid pattern in the plywood. Now is the hard part. Get out your scrapper and get down there and pull up the plywood squares one at a time. If the glue it too strong, then rent a steamer with handheld attachment hit it with a bit of steam then scrape. Once you get them all up you will have glue residue on the hardwood floor, go rent yourself a floor sander from your local hardware store and sand it down.

Once you have done all that you have your choice on how to finish your hardwood floors.

EDIT: Hell, I guess I should say: Steam is hot and will burn you. Saws are sharp and will cut you. Use caution.

this is what i would do, it may take a little more time and elbow grease but the finished product would be worth it.

 

[NetWareHead]

That flooring has been there for over 20 years, I can't imagine that it will look even a little decent after removing the tile and underlay. It might be something to think about, but that could take a long time.

we thought the same thing about our current hardwood floor that we restored. We found 2 floors on top of the hardwood. The previous owners first glued down roofing paper with hot tar indoors! Then on top of this roofing paper, they laid vinyl tiles. Years later, they nailed down plywood with another layer of vinyl.

Ripping the plywood out was the easiest part if you use the chainsaw technique set to the correct depth as explained earlier. The worst part was getting the tar paper off of the original oak floor. I made a thread about it here long time ago. But the pics of the remodel are here: https://plus.google.com/photos/115736731636406090285/albums/5866700865606242161 First pic shows the black crap all over the floor. A drum sander with 80 grit rented from home depot took all of that crap clean off. I'm sure glue will be no problem either.

EDIT: found the thread, here it is: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2313860&highlight=

 

[highland145]

I can't speak for old-school hardwood installations, but newer ones use these nails:

It has an L shape to it and there are typically 3-8 nails per board.

If you wanted to remove the hardwood flooring, it wouldn't be too bad to demo if you used a 3/4" deep cut on a circular saw to cut out a good sized section to start pulling with claw hammers and crowbars. Since it's tongue and groove, you just want to start pulling it up from the tongue side as that's the side with the nails. Once you get a few of the rows up, it will get easier...especially if you get enough space to use a longer pry bar for leverage (away from walls).

Laying hardwood floors isn't bad, but time consuming when doing 1"-2.25" strip flooring. 3.25"+ plank flooring definitely goes quicker. I've laid around 4000 square feet of the stuff and will soon be doing another 1000 on a project I'm working on. My back hates it when I do that stuff, but the work can go quick once you get the hang of it.

If you're only doing a kitchen, you could pull the floor up, check the subfloor, replace any weak plywood...then decide what to put back down.

This. Rip it all out instead of trying to save the hardwood. Haven't seen the epoxy paint but if it looks nice it sure would be the easiest solution.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Quite frankly, you wouldn't be out too much money if you painted it first to see what happens. That said, I have found the folks in this forum are typically correct and you might want to consider just doing it right the first time. It's ultimately up to you, of course.

 

[KlokWyze]

Rip it all out. Save money if you need to. Do it right.

 

[NoCreativity]

If you are planning on staying in the house do it right the first time (either rip it all out or try SMOGZINN's method).

If you just do a cover-up you'll be unhappy with it in a few years and end up spending the time and money to correct it.

 

[SMOGZINN]

3. The holes are the least of my worry, we fixed the whole in the rooms where they put carpet over the hardwood. The issue is the glue they used. It basically destroys the floors. There is no coming back from that.

The glue is not as bad as you think. The hardwood can be sanded down to remove the residue, and the glue will come up with a little steam and elbow grease.

That flooring has been there for over 20 years, I can't imagine that it will look even a little decent after removing the tile and underlay. It might be something to think about, but that could take a long time.

I did this exact process on a nearly 100 year old house that we discovered had it's original hand made pecan wood floors under plywood that was glued down that (we guess) was put in in the late 70's and had several layers of linoleum tile over it. I actually sanded it with a hand sander because I'm stupid and thought that it would get better results and save me some money (it didn't).