Divorce rate among born-again Christians highest of any group.

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Does praying together really mean staying together?

Name the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation. It's the very state that Bush, the Pat Robertson-style political preachers, and others on the ultra-right constantly denounce as the absolute nadir of decadent liberalism: Massachusetts. It's divorce rate is barely half that of George's home state of Texas, for example.

Nor is Massachusetts some sort of statistical anomaly. The region with the lowest rate of family breakups in America is the Northeast, including such blue, blue states as New York, New Jersey, Maine, and leftie-crunchie Vermont. The highest rates are in, of all places, the Bible Belt, where you still see billboards piously proclaiming: "The family that prays together, stays together." George Barna, a born-again Christian and the head of a research group that does surveys among faith groups, finds that only 19 percent of Northeasterners have divorced, compared to 27 percent of Southerners and Midwesterners.

Barna's surveys also revealed another surprise ? the divorce rate among conservative Christians is much higher than for other faith groups. Twenty-seven percent of born-again Christians have been divorced, as opposed to 24 percent of other Christians, and ? Holy Moly! ? only 21 percent of atheists and agnostics.

A separate study I read indicated that the divorce rate is much lower among those who live together before marriage as compared with those who begin living together after marrying.

Gee. Maybe this fundie "Chrisitian" concept of morality doesn't work so well in practice, ya think?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
I remember that study. We discussed it up here quite some time ago (before you joined). ;)
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Well, I would argue that it's a complex issue, one that a single article doesn't necessarily prove wrong.

That being said, I think that many Christians (in particular) place a much higher level of expectation on marriage and what it brings than those who hold to a more secular role. When times get rough, they're more likely to look at what they have in reality and say, "why the heck am I putting up with this if it's so damn hard?!" Not much time to elaborate, but that's my thought in short.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: shira
Does praying together really mean staying together?

Name the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation. It's the very state that Bush, the Pat Robertson-style political preachers, and others on the ultra-right constantly denounce as the absolute nadir of decadent liberalism: Massachusetts. It's divorce rate is barely half that of George's home state of Texas, for example.

Nor is Massachusetts some sort of statistical anomaly. The region with the lowest rate of family breakups in America is the Northeast, including such blue, blue states as New York, New Jersey, Maine, and leftie-crunchie Vermont. The highest rates are in, of all places, the Bible Belt, where you still see billboards piously proclaiming: "The family that prays together, stays together." George Barna, a born-again Christian and the head of a research group that does surveys among faith groups, finds that only 19 percent of Northeasterners have divorced, compared to 27 percent of Southerners and Midwesterners.

Barna's surveys also revealed another surprise ? the divorce rate among conservative Christians is much higher than for other faith groups. Twenty-seven percent of born-again Christians have been divorced, as opposed to 24 percent of other Christians, and ? Holy Moly! ? only 21 percent of atheists and agnostics.

A separate study I read indicated that the divorce rate is much lower among those who live together before marriage as compared with those who begin living together after marrying.

Gee. Maybe this fundie "Chrisitian" concept of morality doesn't work so well in practice, ya think?

Uh, studies by the CDC show people that co-habitate have a 9% higher probability of divorce than those that havent cohabitated.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Ah...here's the thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1447733&enterthread=y&arctab=y


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Divorce rates among Christian groups:

The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is often seen. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8 [Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who marry...in the church after having received premarital counseling...and attend church regularly and pray daily together..." experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages -- or 0.00256 percent. 9

A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The sampling error is within 2 percentage points. The survey found:

11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were much higher than for other faith groups.

George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented: "While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

According to the Dallas Morning News, a Dallas TX newspaper, the national study "raised eyebrows, sowed confusion, [and] even brought on a little holy anger." This caused George Barna to write a letter to his supporters, saying that he is standing by his data, even though it is upsetting. He said that "We rarely find substantial differences" between the moral behavior of Christians and non-Christians. Barna Project Director Meg Flammang said: "We would love to be able to report that Christians are living very distinct lives and impacting the community, but ... in the area of divorce rates they continue to be the same."

The survey has come under some criticism:

David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is."

Tom Ellis of the Southern Baptist Convention suggests that the Barna poll is inaccurate because the people contacted may have called themselves born-again Christians, without having previously made a real commitment to God. He said: "We believe that there is something more to being a Christian...Just saying you are Christian is not going to guarantee that your marriage is going to stay together." 9

Some researchers have suggested that religion may have little or no effect on divorce rates. The apparently higher rate among born-again Christians, and lower rate among Atheists and Agnostics may be due to the influence of financial and/or educational factors.

One reason for the discrepancy of beliefs about divorce rates among born-again Christians may be that their churches are unaware of the true number of divorcing couples in their midst.

Many couples would find it difficult to continue attending services in the same congregation after their marital separation; meeting at church would be awkward. So, they drop out.

Many probably find that the climate in their church is very negative towards divorcing couples. So, they move to other congregations that are either more accepting of divorce, or are unaware of their marital status.


Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate) % who have been divorced
Non-denominational (small groups; independents) 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage."

Donald Hughes, author of The Divorce Reality, said: "In the churches, people have a superstitious view that Christianity will keep them from divorce, but they are subject to the same problems as everyone else, and they include a lack of relationship skills. ...Just being born again is not a rabbit's foot." Hughes claim that 90% of divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved."

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Ron Barrier, Spokesperson for American Atheists remarked on these findings with some rather caustic comments against organized religion. He said: "These findings confirm what I have been saying these last five years. Since Atheist ethics are of a higher calibre than religious morals, it stands to reason that our families would be dedicated more to each other than to some invisible monitor in the sky. With Atheism, women and men are equally responsible for a healthy marriage. There is no room in Atheist ethics for the type of 'submissive' nonsense preached by Baptists and other Christian and/or Jewish groups. Atheists reject, and rightly so, the primitive patriarchal attitudes so prevalent in many religions with respect to marriage."
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Well, I would argue that it's a complex issue, one that a single article doesn't necessarily prove wrong.

That being said, I think that many Christians (in particular) place a much higher level of expectation on marriage and what it brings than those who hold to a more secular role. When times get rough, they're more likely to look at what they have in reality and say, "why the heck am I putting up with this if it's so damn hard?!" Not much time to elaborate, but that's my thought in short.

Certainly a possible explanation.

Another (or additional) explanation I've read is that the average level of education among born-agains is significantly lower than in the general population, and that the divorce rate among the less-well-educated, regardless of religious affiliation, is much higher than in the general population.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
I can't consider any discussion of this study to be valid w/o the opportunity to read the study itself, which the OP doesn't link; instead, he links someone else's column interpreting the study for me, which I do not need. Any links to the study itself? Otherwise, it's too easy to say something like the reason divorce rates are higher in one region over another is because marriage rates are also higher in the same region. A full picture is always better than a partial picture.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Mursilis
I can't consider any discussion of this study to be valid w/o the opportunity to read the study itself, which the OP doesn't link; instead, he links someone else's column interpreting the study for me, which I do not need. Any links to the study itself? Otherwise, it's too easy to say something like the reason divorce rates are higher in one region over another is because marriage rates are also higher in the same region. A full picture is always better than a partial picture.
Should have read the full thread.


BTW,

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=170
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Uh, studies by the CDC show people that co-habitate have a 9% higher probability of divorce than those that havent cohabitated.
In searching the web just now, I'm seeing data supporting what you just wrote. But I know I read another, recent study with the opposite result. I'll see if I can find it.

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Mursilis
I can't consider any discussion of this study to be valid w/o the opportunity to read the study itself, which the OP doesn't link; instead, he links someone else's column interpreting the study for me, which I do not need. Any links to the study itself? Otherwise, it's too easy to say something like the reason divorce rates are higher in one region over another is because marriage rates are also higher in the same region. A full picture is always better than a partial picture.
Should have read the full thread.


BTW,

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=170

Thanks for the link, which revealed:

Although many Christian churches attempt to dissuade congregants from getting a divorce, the research confirmed a finding identified by Barna a decade ago (and further confirmed through tracking studies conducted each year since): born again Christians have the same likelihood of divorce as do non-Christians.

Among married born again Christians, 35% have experienced a divorce. That figure is identical to the outcome among married adults who are not born again: 35%.

George Barna noted that one reason why the divorce statistic among non-Born again adults is not higher is that a larger proportion of that group cohabits, effectively side-stepping marriage ? and divorce ? altogether. ?Among born again adults, 80% have been married, compared to just 69% among the non-born again segment. If the non-born again population were to marry at the same rate as the born again group, it is likely that their divorce statistic would be roughly 38% - marginally higher than that among the born again group, but still surprisingly similar in magnitude.?

So is the OP's title accurate? Is the divorce rate of born-agains 'highest of any group', or the same as any group?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.


So you admit you got a double standard?

Answer the fvcking question.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.


So you admit you got a double standard?

Answer the fvcking question.

Oh man, I LOVE it. Great question.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: shira
Does praying together really mean staying together?

Name the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation. It's the very state that Bush, the Pat Robertson-style political preachers, and others on the ultra-right constantly denounce as the absolute nadir of decadent liberalism: Massachusetts. It's divorce rate is barely half that of George's home state of Texas, for example.

Nor is Massachusetts some sort of statistical anomaly. The region with the lowest rate of family breakups in America is the Northeast, including such blue, blue states as New York, New Jersey, Maine, and leftie-crunchie Vermont. The highest rates are in, of all places, the Bible Belt, where you still see billboards piously proclaiming: "The family that prays together, stays together." George Barna, a born-again Christian and the head of a research group that does surveys among faith groups, finds that only 19 percent of Northeasterners have divorced, compared to 27 percent of Southerners and Midwesterners.

Barna's surveys also revealed another surprise ? the divorce rate among conservative Christians is much higher than for other faith groups. Twenty-seven percent of born-again Christians have been divorced, as opposed to 24 percent of other Christians, and ? Holy Moly! ? only 21 percent of atheists and agnostics.

A separate study I read indicated that the divorce rate is much lower among those who live together before marriage as compared with those who begin living together after marrying.

Gee. Maybe this fundie "Chrisitian" concept of morality doesn't work so well in practice, ya think?

Hmm, have you checked the marriage rate in Massachusetts?

You can't get divorced if you never marry.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.


So you admit you got a double standard?

Answer the fvcking question.

Oh man, I LOVE it. Great question.

It IS a good question. So much so that I'd like to hear your answer and raildogg's answer. After all, if you can blame Islam for terrorists, surely you can blame born-again Christianity for the higher divorce rate.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.


So you admit you got a double standard?

Answer the fvcking question.

Oh man, I LOVE it. Great question.

It IS a good question. So much so that I'd like to hear your answer and raildogg's answer. After all, if you can blame Islam for terrorists, surely you can blame born-again Christianity for the higher divorce rate.

But is the divorce rate for born-agains higher? See my quote from the study itself, above.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: raildogg
So Conjur, the terrorism problem in the muslim world is not related to their religion. That is your opinion.

Is the marriage problem with born-again Christians related to their religion?
Fvck off with the trolling.
Raildogg's precision zinger QFT. And yet, response from Conjur won't warrant even a blink from the mods. Yet CAD (who worst swearing was the using the word ASSumed) gets perm banned. Funny how that works.

So back on topic, I suppose posting thread that show that muslims have the highest terrorist rate amongst any religious group WOULD be a worthy topic of discussion right? Or perhaps domestic abuse would be a better correlary. We know the divorce rate is low, because the women have no property rights and will be beaten to death if they try.

Or maybe we should correlate prison populations with Aetheism? I bet you'd see a very high number there too? Or perhaps we should just shift to race and crime? Homosexual populations and aids? All worthy of threads perhaps...

And I must say - excellent source! Alternet.org, the pinnacle of journalistic integrity.

Kinda funny I think - Shira the big "I hate rip" guy - making a bizarro-rip post!
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: alchemize

Kinda funny I think - Shira the big "I hate rip" guy - making a bizarro-rip post!

Hate Rip? Of course not. He's a sociopath and can't help himself. You know: "Hate the intellectual dishonesty, not the intelectually dishonest".

Of course, I refuse to respond to anything he posts now, because it's clear he has no interest in truthful dialog (witness his continued use of the same quote-mined lies).

However, holding up "Christianity" to the light of day is completely appropriate, since born-agains claim to be following the moral path, as defined by their holy book, and self-righteously condemn anyone who deviates from the path they proclaim as righteous.

Athiests, agnostics, homosexuals - none of these groups makes any claim of special morality. So I suppose you can dredge up statistics on them if you like, but it won't produce the same delicious flavor of hypocrisy as that produced by members of a group proclaiming the sanctity of marriage, yet producing divorces at rates higher than anyone else.

 

realsup

Senior member
Oct 10, 2004
357
0
0
Since when is a survey proof?

People can make any numbers up they want with these surveys.
 

NJDevil

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
952
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: shira
Does praying together really mean staying together?

Name the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation. It's the very state that Bush, the Pat Robertson-style political preachers, and others on the ultra-right constantly denounce as the absolute nadir of decadent liberalism: Massachusetts. It's divorce rate is barely half that of George's home state of Texas, for example.

Nor is Massachusetts some sort of statistical anomaly. The region with the lowest rate of family breakups in America is the Northeast, including such blue, blue states as New York, New Jersey, Maine, and leftie-crunchie Vermont. The highest rates are in, of all places, the Bible Belt, where you still see billboards piously proclaiming: "The family that prays together, stays together." George Barna, a born-again Christian and the head of a research group that does surveys among faith groups, finds that only 19 percent of Northeasterners have divorced, compared to 27 percent of Southerners and Midwesterners.

Barna's surveys also revealed another surprise ? the divorce rate among conservative Christians is much higher than for other faith groups. Twenty-seven percent of born-again Christians have been divorced, as opposed to 24 percent of other Christians, and ? Holy Moly! ? only 21 percent of atheists and agnostics.

A separate study I read indicated that the divorce rate is much lower among those who live together before marriage as compared with those who begin living together after marrying.

Gee. Maybe this fundie "Chrisitian" concept of morality doesn't work so well in practice, ya think?

Hmm, have you checked the marriage rate in Massachusetts?

You can't get divorced if you never marry.

It's the rate of divorce, not the #. The # doesn't really matter unless it's small enough to be statistically insignificant. I'm not drawing the same conclusions from this as Conjur, but you can't really refute the data directly, just interpretations of it.

If only 10000 people marry in Mass, and 50 get divorced, that's better than 1 million Christians w/ 350k getting divorced (hypothetically).
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Stupid and misleading..........Just like: the vast majority of deaths from drowning occur in less than three feet of water...and most people die within ten miles of their homes....and other such stupid surveys and polls.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
I see - so when Christians are sinners, then that's delicious hypocrisy.

But when non-christians are sinners, well, that's expected because they have no consistently definited morals.

Gotchya :D

 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Let me make the point plain as day:

Evangelical Christians are wont to proclaim how God has entered their lives, making miracles. I realize this isn't all born-agains, but it's certainly a sizeable chunk.

Now, this Christian God who looks down in favor at his Jesus-following children, making miracles, do ya think just maybe he might help out in the marriage department? I mean, the Christian defenders here are happy if their divorce rate EQUALS the general population. Don't you think a miracle-inducing Christian God might produce divorce rates HALF or a TENTH of the norm in good, Christian marriages?

Oh, I know, I know. "Man has free will".

But you can't have it both ways. Either you claim that God intervenes (gives gays AIDS, gives worthy football teams the crucial win) or He doesn't. If he doesn't intervene, don't selectively claim that he does when it suits your argument. If he DOES intervene, then why oh why are Christian marriages just as rocky as the rest?

(crickets)