Dists and defrag

[jema]

Thought Id put my money where my mouth is and buy meself a linux dist so I whats the word from the crowds on RH8, SuSE8.1 and Mandrake 9?

Im also currious about if the file systems linux use dont get fragmented becasue I cant find any defrag tools.

Thank you.

 

[Mucho]

The general consensus is RH8 and Mandy9 are newbie friendly, I had no problem installing RH8 it detected all my hardware except my scanner. IMHO if you are new to Linux the best thing is a dual boot because it takes some time to figure out. For info on dual boot go here.

 

[cleverhandle]

Please read through at least the first couple pages of the posts on this forum - the "Which distro is best for a noob?" question is asked almost once a day, and gets pretty damn tiring after a while.

As for defragging, Linux filesystems do not need to be defragged. IIRC, it is possible for a Linux filesystem to lose performance due to fragmentation, but it takes absolutely vast numbers of file IO's in very specific patterns for this to happen.

 

[jema]

I dont visit the forums daily and if its so damn tiring why bother with replying in the first place?

Anyone else care to explain why and how linux files systems avoid becoming fragmented?

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: jema
I dont visit the forums daily and if its so damn tiring why bother with replying in the first place?

Possibly because the people that do visit the forums daily want the rest to get into the habit of searching so that we can see more interesting problems and questions and less of the same old stuff. Of course, if you want the knowledgeable people to ignore your problems, that's your choice.

Anyone else care to explain why and how linux files systems avoid becoming fragmented?

I see you still want more information fed to you... have fun using Linux, okay? If "because the filesystem is more efficient" is not good enough for you, you can read this lecture. I assume you have a strong background in filesystem design.

 

[jema]

Originally posted by: cleverhandle
Of course, if you want the knowledgeable people to ignore your problems, that's your choice.

ROFL!!! If the "knowledge people" includes the likes of you (that cant even answer the question...) I'll be just fine. No problem here mate, if you did read my questions you ought to have noticed that Im looking for info, not trying to get a problem fixed. While we're on the topic of problems one do has to wonder why you resorted to that conclusion, prehaps it is time to address issues closer to home so to speak...

 

[n0cmonkey]

To quote myself yet again:

Knoppix and the SuSE live eval cd are ways to see linux from a distance. They are run off of cdrom so no tough installation is necessary. Of course, you do not get a real feel for the system, but if you stilll arent sure you really want to try, this is probably the way to go.

Choices like RedHat, Mandrake, and SuSE are generally what you hear given to newbies looking to dip their toes in the water. These three companies are breaking new ground in usability on the linux front. They each have utilities to help install software and maintain older software. Their gui tools are typically installed on only their systems, so moving to another distribution after using one of these may be sort of a culture shock, especially if you choose one of the other distros I mention. 😉 These distros also generally go with bleeding edge, or damn close to it, software. They are also known to modify the default kernels a bit, but its typically not a problem. If you want to use it without necessarily learning much, this is the way to go.

Debian, Gentoo, and Slackware are a different breed:
Slackware wants to be the most "unix-like" and may be tough for some newbies. I personally liked Slackware 7 better than the current RedHat (at the time) because it was tough. I got to do things by hand instead of letting a system that may fail handle them for me. It taught me a lot by forcing me to do things.
Debian is for the GPL nut (yes, I say that just to annoy Nothinman 😉). Debian has a confusing install, if you dont read the instructions. It forces you, like Slackware, to do the work yourself. However, unlike Slackware, Debian has one of the most advancned software installation systems out there, for *any* OS. Using simple front-ends you can select from thousands of software packages, have the software download that package and any dependencies it may have, and install them for you. Typically this is a pain-free procedure. It can also update the base system and all packagess you have installed.

I will take a break for a second before going on to Gentoo to make a quick note abotu both Debian and Slackware. Both of these ditributions are fairly serious. If you want to learn the nitty gritty, this is the way to go. A nice mix of pre-built system, with dependancy on knwoledge. Both distros are a bit behind, but security fixes have been back-ported. They are very stable (even their unstable branches are pretty much production ready).

And on to Gentoo. I have not used this distro yet, but I have heard good things about it. It requires software to be compiled locally (and most of the system from what Im told) using their "emerge" system (similar to BSD ports). It is supposed to be fast (unless you are waiting for software to compile 😉) and fairly stable. They do however, have some fairly bleeding edge software. It sounds like a mix between the Debian/Slack camp and RH/Mandrake/SuSE camp.

I recently posted this in the FAQ thread, if you looked through it you might have seen it, not to mention the minimum of 1 other "which linux" thread on the front page. Probably more since I have 100 or whatever show up. Forget the search feature, its overrated. 😉

As far as the "not necessary to defrag because of solid development" thing goes, Im looking for documentation, when I get something Ill post it up. Meanwhile, look at the code.

 

[n0cmonkey]

This may not be as technical as you want, but check out this mailing list thread (here.

Also, check some of the white papers on the individual filesystems. I recommend looking into XFS, ext3fs, and JFS.

EDIT: And if you really want to learn the system, dont bother dual booting. Dive in head first.

 

[Bremen]

Meanwhile, look at the code.

hehe :0) Linux filesystems like ext2 do very well in allocating block spaces, basically it will always use contiguous blocks if possible, and if thats not possible will write out so they are as close together as possible. Of course ext2 dosn't do very well on internal fragmentation, ReiserFS does very well in this area though (almost none!), also on par with ext2 on external fragmentation. Dunno about JFS or XFS.

Generally ext2 will only become fragmented to any major degree when the media is almost totally filled, and undergoes alot of write/deletes.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Bremen

Meanwhile, look at the code.

hehe :0) Linux filesystems like ext2 do very well in allocating block spaces, basically it will always use contiguous blocks if possible, and if thats not possible will write out so they are as close together as possible. Of course ext2 dosn't do very well on internal fragmentation, ReiserFS does very well in this area though (almost none!), also on par with ext2 on external fragmentation. Dunno about JFS or XFS.

Generally ext2 will only become fragmented to any major degree when the media is almost totally filled, and undergoes alot of write/deletes.

My money on a total guess would be XFS because of its history.

 

[Toxic]

I use and recommend SuSE. Not because it's easy to install (it is), but of all the distro's I've used (Slack, RH, Debian) I enjoy the SuSE distro better than any of them. Is it better? No. Is it worse? No. Just my pref.

Unlike MS stuff, with Linux you have alot of choices. D/L a couple of iso's and play around with a few of them, then settle with what distro you like the best. (Note: Not all distro's are available for iso images - checkout Linuxiso's to download a few. Hope you have broadband 😉 ).

Good Luck.

 

[Nothinman]

My money on a total guess would be XFS because of its history.

It uses the same basic techniques all/most unix filesystems use to minimize file fragmentation. And if you feel it necessary it does come with a program (xfs_fsr) to reorganize the file extents more contiguously.