Yeah, but he's got a point. Just because you don't like it doesn't change its validity. However, what needs to come of this is a sober view of race relations and not the typical back and forth finger pointing.
Again I went to that High school. Well, the old Belleville West. (98 grad), they rebuilt in 2001. Belleville is a racist town, period. It was once on the show 60 Minutes for being "the most racist town in america". It's a wealthy german settlement town, with the only thing between it and downtown st. louis being the infamous East St. Louis. Belleville is about twice the size of East St. Lous, and Belleville "west" is the side that borders East St. Louis. West belleville has one of the richest zip codes in the entire St. Louis area( second only to towns like Ladue).
Jimmy Connors (tennis player) is from west belleville. All of the surround small farm towns send their kids to Belleville West. You basically have rich white kids, white farm boys, and then gutter trash ghetto black kids (who came up from east st. louis) going to the same school.
When you leave belleville, you go down a big hill into east st. louis. ESTL is often called "the bottom of the hill"
There was once a gate to belleville from east st. louis that said "no blacks allowed". There's been a huge migration of black people from east st. louis 'up the hill' into the western edge of belleville. Over the past 10-15 years there has been a huge influx of black culture into west belleville.
Jimmy Connors (tennis player) is from west belleville. All of the surround small farm towns send their kids to Belleville West. You basically have rich white kids, white farm boys, and then gutter trash ghetto black kids (who came up from east st. louis) going to the same school.
When you leave belleville, you go down a big hill into east st. louis. ESTL is often called "the bottom of the hill"
There was once a gate to belleville from east st. louis that said "no blacks allowed". There's been a huge migration of black people from east st. louis 'up the hill' into the western edge of belleville. Over the past 10-15 years there has been a huge influx of black culture into west belleville.
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
Wow a kid gets beat up on the bus, how underwhelming. Unless the kid got beat up with a burning cross or it was some vast conspiracy orchestrated by the Black Panthers I think it's safe to say that this is business as usual.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
I was underemployed when I came back from one of my Army Reserve deployments and I worked as a substitute teacher in a mid-size city for a few months. I was pretty bulked up, near shaved head and the school district would put me into either 1st Grade, 5th Grade or as a sub in the "alternative" HS used for disciplinary problems, pregnant girls, gang bangers, etc.
I loved being with the young kids, it was definitely more fun than work. The HS, however, was tough. Very, very similar racial mix of kids to that on the Belleville bus, though I had a number of Latinos in the mix as well.
There was some racial tension but mostly it was a lot of testosterone and estrogen being expressed in highly inappropriate ways. Everyone was in some kind of a bad boat so they were more similar than not. Violence was mostly from personal bullying, which could be stopped if noticed, and a need to vent rage which was much tougher, if not impossible, to resolve as school staff was not in a position to intercede outside of school.
Roughly half the kids really wanted to get an education. They all had multiple strikes against them. For them it was either a HS diploma and a halfway decent job or back into the even worse streets they came from. Maybe they had an option with the military, I got questioned about life there a lot. Most would not be a good fit or they had a record which precluded them from going in.
I used to get assigned by the HS staff to take on the physical education classes a lot because when they weren't playing basketball they were getting into gang fights. Sometimes I just let them fight, it wasn't like they really knew any moves, they were just flaying away at each other. When they got tired I would pull them apart and life went on. Unless there was a gang retaliation. I used to walk back home and would stop a few incipient fights I saw developing. Kinda reasoned with them. I would be very leery of that now with the easy availability of weapons.
I think early intercession with some tough love is essential but a lot of places don't have the right mix of the right kind of teachers/counselors or funding allocated for that or the rules keep everyone spinning in a circle.
Everyone on that bus should have been put into lockdown for a couple of days and counseled, individually and as a group, on violence and active prevention and intercession. But what you get is two kids on suspension that will come back and be high fived by their buddies. Lessons will be learned, but they will be all the wrong ones.
Such is life.
peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
- 81
If you listen closely to the audio during the video, and I mean really close as theres alot of background noise going on. You can clearly hear someone [a male for sure] saying 'cracker' shortly before the beating started. It sounds like 'get that cracka' but Im not sure, can only hear cracker definately.
So is it racist? I dont think theres a doubt about it, but the victim is white and its true - white getting beatdown or discriminated against is ok, if the roles were reversed and it was a lone black kid getting the beatdown [with yells of beat that n**** before hand] HELL would be raised.
So is it racist? I dont think theres a doubt about it, but the victim is white and its true - white getting beatdown or discriminated against is ok, if the roles were reversed and it was a lone black kid getting the beatdown [with yells of beat that n**** before hand] HELL would be raised.
peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
- 81
Also i was surprised not many other ppl commented on cracker being present in the video, i picked up on it pretty quick when the video first aired yesturday...maybe its been edited to be 'PC' ?
As for the kids they are scum and i dont care if they end up in jail or rotting somewhere...schools in S.florida are similar to that school. As a white kid growing up here in S.florida, i was usually only one of a few white kids present [hispanic and black majority schools]. And while id love to say racism doesnt exist or that its only a white/kkk thing id be lying my eyes out if i said that. I was called cracker by blacks and hispanics more times than i can count, and threatened for being white in a 'black' part of school. I was never attacked though but that was likely due to me toughening up...if you allow yourself to be a target in a school like that - as a minority in that type of school your gonna be treated like garbage for what race you are, since you allow it. So give me a break, that video is a piece of reality, the racism door swings in every direction there are plenty of racists in every race.
edit- this was the late 90s to btw, i graduated in 2000. So this isnt 'way back then 70s' school, but recent.
1:26 on that vid is when hes called a cracker.
As for the kids they are scum and i dont care if they end up in jail or rotting somewhere...schools in S.florida are similar to that school. As a white kid growing up here in S.florida, i was usually only one of a few white kids present [hispanic and black majority schools]. And while id love to say racism doesnt exist or that its only a white/kkk thing id be lying my eyes out if i said that. I was called cracker by blacks and hispanics more times than i can count, and threatened for being white in a 'black' part of school. I was never attacked though but that was likely due to me toughening up...if you allow yourself to be a target in a school like that - as a minority in that type of school your gonna be treated like garbage for what race you are, since you allow it. So give me a break, that video is a piece of reality, the racism door swings in every direction there are plenty of racists in every race.
edit- this was the late 90s to btw, i graduated in 2000. So this isnt 'way back then 70s' school, but recent.
1:26 on that vid is when hes called a cracker.
I hope that kid gets jailed for a fucking long time racially motivated or not
love how the video reinforces the racial stereotype too
edit: just noticed it was 2 fucktards
So is everyone in this forum. What's the difference?
Well, the difference with Limbaugh is, there almost always was a sentence spoken either before or after the sentence used for the quote, that changes the context of the statement. Not knowing this particular instance, but from past history I'm sure it's just as true here.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
If a black guy spills a drink on me in a bar, and I say "dick move man". He says "watch where you're walking a-hole." We then get into a fight because we're both drunk idiots and I kick his ass (hey, it's my hypo). While we're fighting I call him some racial slurs cuz I know it'll piss him off.
Newspaper report the next day reads: "Hate crime? Man beats another man in bar while screaming racial slurs."
this doesn't = racially motivated.
So far there's no evidence at all they beat him up because he was white. If these kids come out and say, yeah, we like to beat up whitey, that's one thing. So far all we have is a school bus fight and the victim happened to be white, and the attackers black.
And to you people calling for the black kids to be "jailed for a very long time": where the fuck did you go to HS that you never saw a fight?? There were no knives, guns, chains involved here. A kid got beat up a bit. I saw worse and I grew up in an affluent neighborhood.
That said, the attackers should catch hell, but being jailed for a few years is going to help what exactly? It's simply going to produce a person with a record who now can't get a decent job anywhere.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
2 different things.
White kid beat up by black kid, everyone jumps: Racially motivated!! no evidence for that.
Carter made the observation that a segment of the opposition to Obama is racially motivated. It'd take about 2 seconds of perusing the crowd at the 9/12 rally to support that conclusion. He still shouldn't have said it because it doesn't help anyone, and only hurts Obama and the admin. Now Obama has to answer questions about whether he agrees with Carter. I doubt you'll get a straight answer out of him or Gibbs. Likely they'll say the former Pres has the right to his opinion and it's not for Obama to blah blah blah etc. There will be calls for him to distance himself from Carter, I don't think he'll do that either. He can't really win on it, which is why Carter should've shut his fuckin trap.
peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
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No evidence other than him being called a cracker numerous times, other than the only attackers being black. Other than the only people cheering are black. Oh did I mention they called him cracker, referring to his race ? If the roles were reversed and it was a black kid getting beatdown on a bus where 90% of the ppl are white, and being called a n**** i guarantee youd be hear saying how awful that racist attack was and how 'things need to change'?.
So predictable. Some of you are obviously very sheltered on this forum [probably live in 100% white neighborhoods where its easy to be a incredibly wrong 'armchair judge' on society]. Lol.
peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
- 81
Using your logic, and only your logic...Your dead wrong about Carter's assumption. Why ? Well I seen a picture of a single black supporter at the tea party, being in opposition to Obama. there you go! Your wrong. So you have no evidence for your belief that Carter is right.
Nevermind the fact he is only 1 black person out of 75,000 white people present there. And also, nevermind that the bus that that beating took place on was nearly entirely black and the kid getting beat was white and called racist names. They both are not racist...since there was another white on the bus. Oh and 1 black in that crowd at the tea party.
Great logic.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
I have a pretty strong level of doubt as to whether this attack started off specifically as a racially motivated assault. I tend to see it as another example of the bullying dirt bag majority, which happens to be black, attacking someone who is seen as weak. In this case, the victim is a white nerdy type, but it could easily, though less likely, have been a black or Latino nerd.
There are a number of white kids on that bus. All of them stayed in their seats, unwilling or afraid to defend the kid under assault. This implies, but does not confirm, that they believe they are powerless. I guarantee you that none of those white kids are part of the gang culture that might or might not be formalized in that particular school.
Change the setting to a prison. How do all of these low lifes survive? They quickly identify with a group and rely on group power. You are in a self defined group like the Black Guerrilla Family, Mexican Mafia, Neta, Aryan Brotherhood and the like. Many urban schools are just like prisons, just the names of the gangs are different. If you don't belong to a strong supportive group you are going to be victimized.
Is it racist for a racial majority to intimidate and beat down a racial/demographic minority. Sure. Racism has no color distinctions. And the distinctions are sometimes too subtle to comprehend. Just look at what happened in Rwanda with black on black genocide, in Bosnia Herzegovina with white on white, Europe with Aryan vs Slav, etc. etc. etc.
This is a human condition that requires intervention wherever it occurs. My guess, however, is that the community and the school system there is too far gone down the road of acceptance of the worst of behaviors.
There are a number of white kids on that bus. All of them stayed in their seats, unwilling or afraid to defend the kid under assault. This implies, but does not confirm, that they believe they are powerless. I guarantee you that none of those white kids are part of the gang culture that might or might not be formalized in that particular school.
Change the setting to a prison. How do all of these low lifes survive? They quickly identify with a group and rely on group power. You are in a self defined group like the Black Guerrilla Family, Mexican Mafia, Neta, Aryan Brotherhood and the like. Many urban schools are just like prisons, just the names of the gangs are different. If you don't belong to a strong supportive group you are going to be victimized.
Is it racist for a racial majority to intimidate and beat down a racial/demographic minority. Sure. Racism has no color distinctions. And the distinctions are sometimes too subtle to comprehend. Just look at what happened in Rwanda with black on black genocide, in Bosnia Herzegovina with white on white, Europe with Aryan vs Slav, etc. etc. etc.
This is a human condition that requires intervention wherever it occurs. My guess, however, is that the community and the school system there is too far gone down the road of acceptance of the worst of behaviors.
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2006
- 15,456
- 389
- 121
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
No evidence other than him being called a cracker numerous times, other than the only attackers being black. Other than the only people cheering are black. Oh did I mention they called him cracker, referring to his race?
[/quote]
I addressed the racial slurs, it's simply what you yell at someone you are fighting with. If a black dude was going around telling lies about me and I punched him and called him a darkie, that still wouldn't make my actions "racially motivated." At this point all you have is attackers black, victim white. When some evidence arises that the black kids colluded one day to beat up a white kid, I'll be happy to listen. Until then, people like you inflame every single situation between blacks and whites by screaming racism.
I do agree that if a white guy beat up a black guy on a bus full of screaming white people, Rev Al (who is a douche) would be jumping up and down. Is your argument that Rev Al is right every time he screams racial bias?
Sorry, but I like to know the full story before sentencing someone.
Bullshit. I can prove you wrong right now.
The asshole who commited this act, as atrocious as it was, is being investigated by the FBI for a "hate" crime. The argument started over something that had nothing to do with the lady's race, but slurs were said in the heat of the moment.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/20940073/detail.html
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Carter said a segment of the opposition is racially motivated.
Some signs at the 9/12 rally exhibited blatant racial bias.
The existence of opposition at the rally who were not part of the racially motivated segment does nothing to disproves the existence of the former.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
Not in my decade.
I went to high school in the 1980's. Something like this occurring on the bus then would have got students suspended or expelled. Then when the kids got home they would have wished they could have stayed at school by the time the parents got through with them.
I guess times have changed. Then I knew if I caused trouble at school I would catch hell at home. Even the teachers were respected, nobody ever talked back to them. When I see kids talking back to parents and authority figures it just makes me sick.
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