Disney closes Childhood Obesity exhibit after complaints

[Bateluer]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46591678/#.T1EWu_Egc3U

ORLANDO, Fla. — Walt Disney World is retooling an Epcot exhibit on childhood obesity after critics complained it was insensitive to obese kids and reinforced stereotypes.

The interactive exhibit, Habit Heroes, featured animated fitness superheros Will Power and Callie Stenics and super-sized villains Snacker and Lead Bottom, who eat junk food and watch too much television. Critics said the exhibit reinforces stereotypes that obese children are lazy and have poor eating habits.

Doctors say obesity can sometimes be attributed to genetics and certain medications, and food can be used as a coping mechanism.

"We're appalled to learn that Disney, a traditional hallmark of childhood happiness and joy, has fallen under the shadow of negativity and discrimination," the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance said in a statement.

"I was really disturbed to see the most negative habits were attached to really fat bodies," Peggy Howell, a spokeswoman for the group, said after viewing a companion website. "These pictures further the stigma against people of higher body weight."
Oh, this statement really pisses me off. Unhealthy habits should have a negative stigma! How the fvck do you think these children got obese in the first place! 99.99% of the time, its because they're sitting on the butts playing game consoles and eating junk food.


The exhibit was closed shortly after its unofficial opening in February, the Orlando Sentinel (http://thesent.nl/ylHSlk) reported Thursday. The official opening has been postponed indefinitely.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield partnered with Disney to create the exhibit. Blue Cross spokesman John W. Herbkersman said the exhibit was meant to be helpful.

"Our goal is to ensure that the attraction conveys a positive message about healthy lifestyles in a fun and empowering way," Herbkersman said. "To work on further improving and refining the experience, the attraction is closed for the time being. We look forward to officially opening it soon."

Added Disney spokeswoman Kathleen Prihoda: "That's why we have a soft opening. So we can open it up to others and listen. We've heard the feedback."

We need to stop worrying about offending the obese.

Disney should have told the fatties to go pound sand, it would have been good for them. Burn some calories.

Edit - Fixed the quoted text.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Oh, gee. Steroids can cause Cushing-oid obesity, especially in children, and there are disorders that have obesity as part of their syndrome...but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of obese kids just drink too much soda and don't move enough. Disappointing. Really disappointing.

 

[QueBert]

should be closed, how do you think it makes the MILLIONS of children who have a legitimate thyroid condition feel? Ok so there are probably 10 who are big who don't have a condition for every 1 who does. But there muillions of Americans who suffer from obesity due to a condition which they have no control over? That's a good number of people imho. One of my nephews falls into the 'condition' category and it's absolutely disgusting how people treat him without even knowing shit about him.

 

[blinky8225]

should be closed, how do you think it makes the MILLIONS of children who have a legitimate thyroid condition feel? Ok so there are probably 10 who are big who don't have a condition for every 1 who does. But there muillions of Americans who suffer from obesity due to a condition which they have no control over? That's a good number of people imho. One of my nephews falls into the 'condition' category and it's absolutely disgusting how people treat him without even knowing shit about him.

To be fair, many thyroid conditions are diet and lifestyle related, so that's not cause for closing the exhibit. For instance, research has revealed a link between gluten and hypothyroidism. There's also some evidence that carbohydrate intake affects thyroid function.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

To be fair, many thyroid conditions are diet and lifestyle related, so that's not cause for closing the exhibit. For instance, research has revealed a link between gluten and hypothyroidism. There's also some evidence that carbohydrate intake affects thyroid function.

Probably far more significant is iodine deficiency.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Obesity isn't just a physical condition, but a psychological and emotional one at that. There is a better way of addressing it that is much more sensitive to the psyche of those individuals who are overweight. Yes, we get that they're fat. Most of the time, they're fat for multiple reasons. I mean, yeah, who doesn't love some fried food? But a lot of people have emotional connotations with it - perhaps comfort foods remind them of someone who died, perhaps they have self-esteem issues, etc. These are pretty common. For the same reason, you wouldn't just tell someone who tells cancer to just shut up and get chemo, you can't just tell someone who's fat to lose weight. I'm not comparing the source of the disease in that analogy, only the lack of insensitivity to the psychological needs of patients. People who are willing to lose weight will do it, if you address the reasons why they eat pathologically.

 

[HNNstyle]

Obesity is a health problem. Disney should have taken that route and made the villains high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Obesity is a health problem. Disney should have taken that route and made the villains high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes.

In practise I would say that would be completely unworkable. They're far too abstract for most people to understand the need to change their entire lives to prevent. Even for people who have hypercholesterolaemia or hypertension, many of them don't take their pills because they don't see any kind of immediate benefit from them; even when counseled by their doctor, they're under the impression that these drugs are only there to make them comfortable. This isn't the case; they're there to help them live longer. But they don't get that.

The same would apply to kids. I was 11 when I first (and last, as it happens) went to Disneyland. When I was 11 I thought I was immortal. Things like heart disease and diabetes happened to old people. I wasn't really interested in how these things could affect my health decades down the tract. And it's the same for most people, adults and children alike. These are too abstract for people to view them with the importance and gravity they deserve.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Obesity isn't just a physical condition, but a psychological and emotional one at that. There is a better way of addressing it that is much more sensitive to the psyche of those individuals who are overweight. Yes, we get that they're fat. Most of the time, they're fat for multiple reasons. I mean, yeah, who doesn't love some fried food? But a lot of people have emotional connotations with it - perhaps comfort foods remind them of someone who died, perhaps they have self-esteem issues, etc. These are pretty common. For the same reason, you wouldn't just tell someone who (has) cancer to just shut up and get chemo, you can't just tell someone who's fat to lose weight. I'm not comparing the source of the disease in that analogy, only the lack of insensitivity to the psychological needs of patients. People who are willing to lose weight will do it, if you address the reasons why they eat pathologically.

my mom is going through cancer treatment. The only reason she is alive is because people put their foot down and told her to get her foot out of her ass. It's more complicated than this but it comes down to her feeling defeated which is probably a common feeling that obese people have. I encourage people wanting to loose weight. I don't act negative either I guess. But if it is someone close to me, I will tell them exactly what I think whether or not they want to hear it. That's what a true friend does. Even if the friendship ends in that moment, you did the right thing. PERIOD.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Curious .... what medical issues can exist that can cause people to gain weight while in a calorie deficit?

Are these temporary or permanent issues for the people suffering the issue?

This is a serious question.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Curious .... what medical issues can exist that can cause people to gain weight while in a calorie deficit?

Are these temporary or permanent issues for the people suffering the issue?

This is a serious question.

Well, genetics in general can do that. People have differing sensitivities to dropping their calories. Some people drop their BMR very readily and match their new caloric intake (to a certain extent). There are also hypothalamic conditions, thyroid disorders, and even viruses can affect how prone you are to obesity. In addition, there are other endocrine disorders (hypercorticism, type II diabetes - which has a genetic component) that promote obesity. In addition to that, some people are sensitive to certain macro/micronutrients. A lot of the contributing factors are environmental and can be changed (diet, nutrition, exercise, wellness), but a LOT are also genetic and cannot be changed.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

my mom is going through cancer treatment. The only reason she is alive is because people put their foot down and told her to get her foot out of her ass. It's more complicated than this but it comes down to her feeling defeated which is probably a common feeling that obese people have. I encourage people wanting to loose weight. I don't act negative either I guess. But if it is someone close to me, I will tell them exactly what I think whether or not they want to hear it. That's what a true friend does. Even if the friendship ends in that moment, you did the right thing. PERIOD.

You still have to be sensitive to her needs. You can't tell her to suck it up. You tell her that she deserves to live and that she should fight. That's completely different than just telling to STFU and stop having cancer. That's how obesity is treated a lot of the time and it's not a productive way of handling the issue.

 

[Bateluer]

Well, genetics in general can do that. People have differing sensitivities to dropping their calories. Some people drop their BMR very readily and match their new caloric intake (to a certain extent). There are also hypothalamic conditions, thyroid disorders, and even viruses can affect how prone you are to obesity. In addition, there are other endocrine disorders (hypercorticism, type II diabetes - which has a genetic component) that promote obesity. In addition to that, some people are sensitive to certain macro/micronutrients. A lot of the contributing factors are environmental and can be changed (diet, nutrition, exercise, wellness), but a LOT are also genetic and cannot be changed.

While there is some genetic affect, to blame more than 1% of obese people on genetics is load of crock. 99% of them of obese because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. You can go from there and speculate on the unavailability of healthy food, a lack of knowledge about what is healthy and what isn't, parental influences, etc. But, it still boils down to taking in too many calories and not burning enough. No disease or illness or genetic history will magically create matter from thin air.

Cancer analogies aren't even applicable. Cancer isn't caused by the victim sitting on their ass on the couch playing console games. Obesity is. Aside from cancers caused by doing stupid things like tanning, etc, cancer isn't something you can fix by eating decent and taking up a little exercise. Obesity is.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

While there is some genetic affect, to blame more than 1% of obese people on genetics is load of crock. 99% of them of obese because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. You can go from there and speculate on the unavailability of healthy food, a lack of knowledge about what is healthy and what isn't, parental influences, etc. But, it still boils down to taking in too many calories and not burning enough. No disease or illness or genetic history will magically create matter from thin air.

Cancer analogies aren't even applicable. Cancer isn't caused by the victim sitting on their ass on the couch playing console games. Obesity is. Aside from cancers caused by doing stupid things like tanning, etc, cancer isn't something you can fix by eating decent and taking up a little exercise. Obesity is.

This isn't really true either. While few people can blame genetics as a cause for their obesity, a lot of people can blame genetics as a factor; just like how having an HNPCC mutation doesn't mean you'll get colorectal cancer, but it is a factor.

And actually, a lot of cancers are preventable and due to easily fixable lifestyle factors. The largest is actually tobacco smoking (which I know a few people here are still in denial about... 😛) but fibre is a factor in colorectal cancer, alcohol is a factor in hepatocellular carcinoma, tea and coffee (and other hot drinks) are a factor in oesophageal cancer, etc.

Also, I think you underestimate the difficulty of changing your lifestyle drastically enough for it to be effective in reducing cardiovascular risk. To be in the optimal risk bracket, you would have to almost completely eliminate almost all processed foods from your diet (not just ready-made meals but also cured/processed meats and fish, canned vegetables and fruit, etc.) as well as all salt, most white carbohydrates, as well as most of your meat consumption. It's not easy, especially for people for whom eating is an emotional, rather than a physical, affair.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

While there is some genetic affect, to blame more than 1% of obese people on genetics is load of crock. 99% of them of obese because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. You can go from there and speculate on the unavailability of healthy food, a lack of knowledge about what is healthy and what isn't, parental influences, etc. But, it still boils down to taking in too many calories and not burning enough. No disease or illness or genetic history will magically create matter from thin air.

Cancer analogies aren't even applicable. Cancer isn't caused by the victim sitting on their ass on the couch playing console games. Obesity is. Aside from cancers caused by doing stupid things like tanning, etc, cancer isn't something you can fix by eating decent and taking up a little exercise. Obesity is.

And cancer victims also don't experience the clear prejudice than those who are obese do. Direct diseases are responsible for something like 10-20% of obesity cases. However, there is a lot we don't understand. In animals, obesity can be CAUSED by simply being infected with a certain virus. Humans can too. Granted, many are sedentary, but there are some people who can do nothing and stay thin. We don't make fun of them because of their genetics. There is a lot higher contribution of uncontrollable environmental factors that everyone likes to forget - the nutrition and diet of their mother while pregnant, pollution, BPA, etc. There are people whose metabolism changes even if they modify their diet, making it more difficult to lose weight. Some people can literally drop their BMR by 500cal to not lose any weight while on a typical caloric deficit.

Obesity is a more complicated problem than your simple, "You're lazy, quit being lazy." It has a place in psychology's DSM-IV for a reason - there is a massive psychological component. As most people wouldn't get pissed at someone for being depressed, you have to treat someone with obesity due to psychological issues the same way. To not do so would be discrimination. Not all people who are fat sit around all day. Not all people who are skinny are active. Then why do people who don't get fat, but have the same activity levels as those who do not get made fun of and looked down upon by society? Because you have no clue what's actually going on.

 

[Bateluer]

This isn't really true either. While few people can blame genetics as a cause for their obesity, a lot of people can blame genetics as a factor; just like how having an HNPCC mutation doesn't mean you'll get colorectal cancer, but it is a factor.

Also, I think you underestimate the difficulty of changing your lifestyle drastically enough for it to be effective in reducing cardiovascular risk. To be in the optimal risk bracket, you would have to almost completely eliminate almost all processed foods from your diet (not just ready-made meals but also cured/processed meats and fish, canned vegetables and fruit, etc.) as well as all salt, most white carbohydrates, as well as most of your meat consumption. It's not easy, especially for people for whom eating is an emotional, rather than a physical, affair.

Obesity is a more complicated problem than your simple, "You're lazy, quit being lazy." It has a place in psychology's DSM-IV for a reason - there is a massive psychological component. As most people wouldn't get pissed at someone for being depressed, you have to treat someone with obesity due to psychological issues the same way. To not do so would be discrimination. Not all people who are fat sit around all day. Not all people who are skinny are active. Then why do people who don't get fat, but have the same activity levels as those who do not get made fun of and looked down upon by society? Because you have no clue what's actually going on.

You two seriously believe that there are any significant number of obese people who have a legit genetic disorder that actually makes them obese? Not predisposed to it, makes them obese. That number is probably 1 in 10 million. The majority(read: nearly all) are obese because they have poor eating habits combined with not enough exercise. This does not mean they are lazy, it means they have poor eating habits and insufficient exercise. That is the cause. You can go further and say those are caused by poor parenting or socio-economic factors, but the thing that is making them fat is a poor diet and insufficient exercise. And combating this is exactly what the Disney edu-tainment exhibit was designed to combat.

Bolded part really ticks me off because I was an obese person. In 2004-2005, I lived on Pizza Hut and beer, and worked a relatively low physical job. I got fat because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. And if you look at my family, there's clearly history towards being larger. I was able to lose the weight and get extremely fit through a substantial improvement in my diet combined with a very vigorous exercise program. So yes, not only do I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've been through it personally.

I also ran the squadron PT program in 2006-2008 when I was active duty USAF, and with few exceptions, everyone on the mandatory PT program was there because of poor lifestyle choices. We'd get the occasional people on profiles, but the majority of them were there because they had the same diet I did, pizza, beer, fast food.

With the massive rise in obesity, especially in children, we should not be tolerating and accepting it. It should be combated on every level, educating young people, parents, and teachers on healthy life styles, diet, and exercise. The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance(NAAFA) should be taken to court over promoting child abuse.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

You two seriously believe that there are any significant number of obese people who have a legit genetic disorder that actually makes them obese? Not predisposed to it, makes them obese. That number is probably 1 in 10 million. The majority(read: nearly all) are obese because they have poor eating habits combined with not enough exercise. This does not mean they are lazy, it means they have poor eating habits and insufficient exercise. That is the cause. You can go further and say those are caused by poor parenting or socio-economic factors, but the thing that is making them fat is a poor diet and insufficient exercise. And combating this is exactly what the Disney edu-tainment exhibit was designed to combat.

Bolded part really ticks me off because I was an obese person. In 2004-2005, I lived on Pizza Hut and beer, and worked a relatively low physical job. I got fat because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. And if you look at my family, there's clearly history towards being larger. I was able to lose the weight and get extremely fit through a substantial improvement in my diet combined with a very vigorous exercise program. So yes, not only do I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've been through it personally.

I also ran the squadron PT program in 2006-2008 when I was active duty USAF, and with few exceptions, everyone on the mandatory PT program was there because of poor lifestyle choices. We'd get the occasional people on profiles, but the majority of them were there because they had the same diet I did, pizza, beer, fast food.

With the massive rise in obesity, especially in children, we should not be tolerating and accepting it. It should be combated on every level, educating young people, parents, and teachers on healthy life styles, diet, and exercise. The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance(NAAFA) should be taken to court over promoting child abuse.

Considering we're the only two healthcare professionals on this board and have read research on it, I'm going to say our opinions carry the most clout. In addition, you don't understand genetics if you think that there always has to be a cause and effect. There is a gradient of protein expressions and sometimes there are defects that cause certain things. Obesity is regulated likely by thousands of genes. If half of them put you at a predisposition for being fat, then you're gonna be fat unless you're really active. You can say diet and lack of exercise area always the cause, but that's simply not true. There is a significant portion of the population that eats just as poorly as those who are obese, but have a metabolism that wastes the energy via thermogenesis.

That is what happens a lot of the time, but like I said, there is a psychological component that can lead to overeating as well, which you ignored. Just because you're obese and you experienced a certain situation doesn't mean that's how it is for everyone. You come in here without any compassion for people who are just like the person you were. That's reprehensible. Many people just don't have any idea of what to do. That's a fault in the education system that teaches the food pyramid, which is propaganda and has very little support in modern research.

We don't have to tolerate it and accept it, but it's not something we need to condemn people about. It's something that needs to be treated with education primarily (on diet, exercise) and psychological services. Like I said, you don't condemn someone who has depression for being sad. You get them to talk to someone, make their thoughts progressive and effective, and give them the power to change their own life.

 

[tedrodai]

Cancer isn't caused by the victim sitting on their ass on the couch playing console games. Obesity is.

Uh, if you're trying to simply it that much, exercise isn't even required.

Frankly Bat, like you, I am inclined to be disgusted by individuals who are obese. Other than in a statement like this, I would never voice that opinion, even though I may initially wonder to myself "How can that person choose to live that way?" I'm not talking a little overweight, but rather obese and approaching obese...though with some other examples I may think "Man, they'd feel so much better if they etc., etc., etc."

However, I agree with SC all the way. Unless it's someone I'm close with, I can't know why that person is obese or overweight, so how can I judge them? Offending individuals with a problem is rarely a good way to promote the idea that they can better themselves. Say what you will, there are MANY contributing factors to obesity, and while there may be some common factors to a large % of that population, there are many reasons different individuals may experience those common factors.

Also, unfortunaly, there are some people who are not interested in helping themselves for whatever reason (specifically talking to lose weight...lets not get get sidetracked with that statement). Is your suggestion really to put down those individuals for the rest of their lives on the off-chance that you *might* affect the person standing next to them in a positive manner? I guarantee there's other ways to inspire change without the bullying.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You two seriously believe that there are any significant number of obese people who have a legit genetic disorder that actually makes them obese? Not predisposed to it, makes them obese. That number is probably 1 in 10 million. The majority(read: nearly all) are obese because they have poor eating habits combined with not enough exercise.

No, that is not what we believe, and I do not believe that either of us said anything like this. Stop using straw men. If you want to make an argument about this, at least do it like a man.

This does not mean they are lazy, it means they have poor eating habits and insufficient exercise. That is the cause. You can go further and say those are caused by poor parenting or socio-economic factors, but the thing that is making them fat is a poor diet and insufficient exercise. And combating this is exactly what the Disney edu-tainment exhibit was designed to combat.

I never said this was not true. However, it is not appropriate to lambaste people about it because it is not appropriate to assume that it is easy for them to be able to change their lives in a significant way, nor is it appropriate to assume that the obesity is not pathological just because these comprise a minority. Just like you don't tell someone with anorexia to just STFU and start eating because it won't work, you don't tell someone who is obese to just STFU and stop eating. Because that won't work either.

Bolded part really ticks me off because I was an obese person. In 2004-2005, I lived on Pizza Hut and beer, and worked a relatively low physical job. I got fat because of poor diet and insufficient exercise. And if you look at my family, there's clearly history towards being larger. I was able to lose the weight and get extremely fit through a substantial improvement in my diet combined with a very vigorous exercise program. So yes, not only do I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've been through it personally.

I also ran the squadron PT program in 2006-2008 when I was active duty USAF, and with few exceptions, everyone on the mandatory PT program was there because of poor lifestyle choices. We'd get the occasional people on profiles, but the majority of them were there because they had the same diet I did, pizza, beer, fast food.

See, this is something I hate about the Internet. Because people feel it entitles them to try and stretch their anecdotes onto everyone else's experience. I was obese too, and now I'm not. So what? I'm just one person and my experience obviously won't necessarily apply to any single person I speak to. Just because you were obese and you decided to change, this is not proof of anything other than that you may know what it felt like to be obese. There is nothing else of use that can be drawn from your anecdote. Certainly nothing worth repeating as advice.

With the massive rise in obesity, especially in children, we should not be tolerating and accepting it. It should be combated on every level, educating young people, parents, and teachers on healthy life styles, diet, and exercise. The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance(NAAFA) should be taken to court over promoting child abuse.

I never said it was something that should be accepted. However, there are some ways that will work, and some ways that won't.

 

[Bateluer]

Considering we're the only two healthcare professionals on this board and have read research on it, I'm going to say our opinions carry the most clout.

Don't over estimate your e-peen size. Your word here carries as much as mine, ie, diddily squat. 😛

Might have missed it scanning H&F on my phone, but did you respond to the my statements that the majority of children are obese from poor diet/insufficient exercise? Obesity only became epidemic in the US in the few decades, substantially so in the past decade. Are you saying the our 'genetics hit critical mass'?

Don't be naive, you know full well that the majority of obese people, not just children, are obese due to those two factors. Only a tiny fraction are obese from genetic or illness related factors. Also, I'd also weigh in that many illness related problems are because they had poor diet/exercise to begin with, such as the massive increase in child diabetes. Diabetes didn't cause them to become obese, obesity caused them to develop diabetes.

This isn't the first time anti-obesity and healthy living campaigns have met with opposition and outage from fatties who want to be coddled more. I believe I posted a thread in Off Topic about the 'Mom, why I'm fat?' ads ran in Georgia a month or so back? They featured obese children asking their parents why there were fat, or stating that they hated going to school because other kids pick on them. Usually the camera would pan around to the parent and you'd see them as obese as well or they wouldn't have an answer and look at the floor.

Here's the NPR link to it. People were angry at the ads, but its a VERY necessary message that needs to get out and a problem that has to be turned asap.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/144799538/controversy-swirls-around-harsh-anti-obesity-ads


I'm not going to bother to comment on cancer analogies anymore, thats a disservice and insult to cancer victims.

 

[blinky8225]

You two seriously believe that there are any significant number of obese people who have a legit genetic disorder that actually makes them obese? Not predisposed to it, makes them obese. That number is probably 1 in 10 million. The majority(read: nearly all) are obese because they have poor eating habits combined with not enough exercise. This does not mean they are lazy, it means they have poor eating habits and insufficient exercise. That is the cause. You can go further and say those are caused by poor parenting or socio-economic factors, but the thing that is making them fat is a poor diet and insufficient exercise. And combating this is exactly what the Disney edu-tainment exhibit was designed to combat.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Genetics can't explain the dramatic increase of obesity in this country since our genes have remained virtually unchanged for the past few centuries. The things that have changed quite substantially, however, are diet, lifestyle, and the over-processing of food. Perhaps ignorance is at play as well. If one follows the USDA food pyramid that emphasizes 6-11 servings of grain per day, you'd probably end up pretty fat. Also, how can super-finely ground flour be considered a "whole grain" product?

 

[Bateluer]

The things that have changed quite substantially, however, are diet, lifestyle, and the over-processing of food. Perhaps ignorance is at play as well. If one follows the USDA food pyramid that emphasizes 6-11 servings of grain per day, you'd probably end up pretty fat. Also, how can super-finely ground flour be considered a "whole grain" product?

The original food pyramid assumed that people were living an active lifestyle and getting exercise. Today's people generally are not. If you work out the way you should, the original food pyramid isn't bad at all. 🙂


Also wanted to add that Disney wasn't standing on the sidelines chanting 'Fatty Fat, Fat Fat!' at overweight children. They created a fun, light and entertaining venue to target the a couple of the biggest causes of obesity, which are also some of the easiest to actually address. Seems like there are some obese people who simply don't want to admit they are fat, have a bad lifestyle, and will attack anyone and everyone who tries to push healthy habits.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I'm going to have to agree with this. Genetics can't explain the dramatic increase of obesity in this country since our genes have remained virtually unchanged for the past few centuries. The things that have changed quite substantially, however, are diet, lifestyle, and the over-processing of food. Perhaps ignorance is at play as well. If one follows the USDA food pyramid that emphasizes 6-11 servings of grain per day, you'd probably end up pretty fat. Also, how can super-finely ground flour be considered a "whole grain" product?

Has anyone else apart from SociallyChallenged, in this thread, ever even thought to consider, for one second, that like most chronic conditions, obesity is not simply a completely genetic or completely environmental condition? Because it seems that neither you nor Bateluer has. And for that you have committed the false dichotomy logical fallacy, and for trying to pin this view on us, you have also committed the straw man logical fallacy.

Get your heads out of your asses and try to think for a change.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Don't over estimate your e-peen size. Your word here carries as much as mine, ie, diddily squat. 😛

Might have missed it scanning H&F on my phone, but did you respond to the my statements that the majority of children are obese from poor diet/insufficient exercise? Obesity only became epidemic in the US in the few decades, substantially so in the past decade. Are you saying the our 'genetics hit critical mass'?

Don't be naive, you know full well that the majority of obese people, not just children, are obese due to those two factors. Only a tiny fraction are obese from genetic or illness related factors. Also, I'd also weigh in that many illness related problems are because they had poor diet/exercise to begin with, such as the massive increase in child diabetes. Diabetes didn't cause them to become obese, obesity caused them to develop diabetes.

This isn't the first time anti-obesity and healthy living campaigns have met with opposition and outage from fatties who want to be coddled more. I believe I posted a thread in Off Topic about the 'Mom, why I'm fat?' ads ran in Georgia a month or so back? They featured obese children asking their parents why there were fat, or stating that they hated going to school because other kids pick on them. Usually the camera would pan around to the parent and you'd see them as obese as well or they wouldn't have an answer and look at the floor.

Here's the NPR link to it. People were angry at the ads, but its a VERY necessary message that needs to get out and a problem that has to be turned asap.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/144799538/controversy-swirls-around-harsh-anti-obesity-ads


I'm not going to bother to comment on cancer analogies anymore, thats a disservice and insult to cancer victims.

I didn't reply to it because it's a bit of a different argument. There's a lot that came about in the last 100 years that is novel and could have caused increases in obesity. I will grant decreased activity and increased caloric intake as two causes. I will also posit the following: increased plastic oils within foods, increased pesticide use, increased use of genetically modified foods, increased number of vaccinations, increased average pollutants, increased number of medical interventions (saving sickly children who couldn't be saved before), poor education on what to eat in moderation, more time IN school, less time outside, legislation cancelling recess, state funds being cut for PE classes, fewer extracurricular programs, increased variety and strength of virii and bacteria in general, increased stress of getting into college, increased stress in America, increased productivity per unit of time in America, no increase in pay per productivity in America, etc, etc. As Mr. Pedantic said, this is not a dichotomy. If diet and exercise play 60% of the battle, there's 1,000 other factors that play the other 40%. And that number varies from person to person. If you fix the 60%, sure, you can probably reduce your weight, body fat, BMI, risk of death, etc; but for some people, that 60% is only 40% and it doesn't make a big enough of a difference. I'm not arguing that what you're saying about diet and exercise being important is correct. I'm arguing that the degree to which you give it clout far supersedes the reality of the matter.

 

[Bateluer]

Has anyone else apart from SociallyChallenged, in this thread, ever even thought to consider, for one second, that like most chronic conditions, obesity is not simply a completely genetic or completely environmental condition? Because it seems that neither you nor Bateluer has. And for that you have committed the false dichotomy logical fallacy, and for trying to pin this view on us, you have also committed the straw man logical fallacy.

I did, very clearly in several of my posts. But, the fact is, some 90% of obesity is simply causes by poor diet and lack of exercise. The percentage of obesity caused by genetic factors and diseases is statistically insignificant. Those arguments are coddling, things you say to make an obese person feel better, because its not their fault. Its genetic. They don't have to control their diet or get off the couch occasionally. Because its genetic.

I didn't reply to it because it's a bit of a different argument. There's a lot that came about in the last 100 years that is novel and could have caused increases in obesity. I will grant decreased activity and increased caloric intake as two causes.

Those are the two biggest causes.

I will also posit the following: increased plastic oils within foods,

Falls into what I've stated several times, poor diet. Seems to keep going over your head.

increased pesticide use,

Wouldn't effect obesity.

increased use of genetically modified foods,

Debatable, but again, falls under poor diet.

increased number of vaccinations,

Nothing to do with obesity. This isn't an autism discussion thread.

increased average pollutants,

Unless the increased pollution is preventing you from exercising, no effect on obesity.

increased number of medical interventions (saving sickly children who couldn't be saved before),

Has other affects, but not much in obesity. Passing down genetic disorders that would otherwise be weeded out has other affects.

poor education on what to eat in moderation, more time IN school, less time outside, legislation cancelling recess, state funds being cut for PE classes, fewer extracurricular programs,

All of these fall under my poor diet/lifestyle statements. And it was exactly these factors that Disney and BCBS were targeting. Improving education, improving dietary knowledge, and doing it in a light, fun, entertaining way. I'm still mystified why you're attacking Disney for this.

increased variety and strength of virii and bacteria in general,

Nothing to do with obesity.

increased stress of getting into college, increased stress in America,

This would have an effect, high stress people tend to be overweight. Just keep in mind, that they usually aren't exercising and usually eat fast food because they feel they need to accomplish certain tasks and believe they don't have the time to eat healthy or exercise. So again, poor diet and lifestyle.

If diet and exercise play 60% of the battle, there's 1,000 other factors that play the other 40%. And that number varies from person to person. If you fix the 60%, sure, you can probably reduce your weight, body fat, BMI, risk of death, etc; but for some people, that 60% is only 40% and it doesn't make a big enough of a difference. I'm not arguing that what you're saying about diet and exercise being important is correct. I'm arguing that the degree to which you give it clout far supersedes the reality of the matter.

Lifestyle is 90% of the matter. Obesity has skyrocketed in the past decade mostly because we eat crap, don't exercise, and more and more often, we attack and shutdown groups who try to stem this tide.

Obesity is going to become one of the biggest problems for first world nations in the next couple of decades as these obese children become obese adults. And suddenly wonder why they have a slew of illnesses and medications they have to take, and continue to complain that their health care costs are through the roof. And then they'll order out for McDonald's delivery. While taking the electric scooter to the mail box to get the mail.