Disgracefull: A Rant

[Bateluer]

Okay, the US Air Force conducts its PT test in the following manner. There is a timed 1.5mi run worth a possible of 50pts, a waist tape worth a possible 30 pts, and 1 min each of pushups and sit-ups worth a possible 10 points each. Based on how fast you run, how small your waist is, and how many pushups and situps you complete, you are awarded points. Minimum passing score is a 75 out of 100. An individuals height and weight can also effect their total score in some situations, but the majority of people its a checkbox test. Its not that difficult of system.

The Air Force has had this style of testing now for about 3 years or so. It replaced the absolutely worthless, and much ridiculed 'ERGO' bike test.

When an individual fails to achieve a 75, they are placed on a mandatory 5 day a week monitored PT program. Myself and a few others run the program and alternate actually running the PT sessions on a weekly basis.

Earlier this week, we did some last man up runs. I split them into two groups, a fast and a slow group. We did this for 4 laps around a 1/4 mile track, so about 1mi total. The fast group posted a 10:40 minute mile while the slow group posted a 11:45 minute mile. Thinking this was just because individuals were being forced to slow down to the slowest person in the group, I didn't think much of it.

Yesterday, we did a simple mile run warm-up before pressing on with the rest of our workout. The fastest mile time, aside from myself, was 11:02.

WTF? Seriously, these people are active duty military, thats absolutely pathetic. And only about 1/4 people on this program under E4 or lower. The bulk of them are TSgts and MSgts.

Some of these people have been on this program for almost 2 years, and leadership in taking disciplinary action has been slow coming. There is a stigma of sorts, supervision believes that they are destroying someone's career by taking a stripe or booting them out of the service for a PT failure. But, who really is responsible for failing their PT test? The member or the people above him? Bare in mind, that even the people who score above that 75 mark are afforded time to do PT, either during duty time or on their own. The people who score below that 75 mark are placed on a mandatory 5 day per week program, as I said before, so they are essentially forced to work out.

Some of these people have actually handed me the line "I am physically incapable of running 1.5 miles without stopping to walk." Thats bullsh!t. You've been forced to work out for months now, if not years in some cases, and you still can't run a mile and a half, in comfy shoes and clothing, no less? Lord help you when you're deployed somewhere wearing full combat gear and being shot at.

I was chewed out yesterday by a former MSgt, now a TSgt, because I was the one who failed him on his last PT test. He lost a stripe over repeat failures. He ran his 1.5mi run in about 15:50. And I could only count about half his situps because he was doing them improperly, which I informed of during the test repeated. And he only did about 20 good pushups because he wasn't coming up all the way on the pushup. There was even another, certified tester there during the test who verified all the numbers gained.

Somehow its my fault that he lost a stripe and a several hundred dollars per month. :disgust:


No cliffs, sorry, need to go work these people out again this morning too.

 

[Skacer]

Society needs that program on a global basis.

 

[jjones]

Does the Air Force still serve jelly donuts and half-caf mochaccino during PT?

 

[Chiller2]

Are you in the Air Force because evidently you have NO idea what their duties are. Except for Pilots and SAR they don't do combat and they support and maintain the equipment and pilots who do.

 

[evident]

good job. keep pushing them... the world needs less lazy people who are out of shape, nevertheless in the freakin military!

 

[olds]

I didn't realize the Air Farce had any standards.
They used to come out in the field from the Gasthaus in a rental car. They'd work their 6 hours (they got 1 hour drive time each way) and then return to town/hotel/restaurant.
Meanwhile, we worked 12 hours on/12 hours off, stayed in leaky tents and ate at least one cold meal a day.

 

[jiggahertz]

There's a reason why it's called the Chair Force.

 

[ShockwaveVT]

Sit.
Push Buttons.
Mission Complete.
http://chairforce.com/

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: Chiller2
Are you in the Air Force because evidently you have NO idea what their duties are. Except for Pilots and SAR they don't do combat and they support and maintain the equipment and pilots who do.

And you are in the Air Force? I guess not because YOU have no idea who can be in combat. Did you know that the Air Force Spec Ops were involved in Somalia? Did you know there were many in Gulf War I? Did you know a scope dope might have to be qualified on the M-16 and fight?

 

[Codewiz]

Dude, I am overweight by about 40 pounds and I can STILL run a sub 8 minute mile. It isn't hard. I am 6'2" 225lbs and completely out of shape. I find it completely sad that someone in the military couldn't run a sub 10 minute mile any day of the week. It probably doesn't hurt that I used to run cross country and routinely ran sub 5:30 miles.......

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Chiller2
Are you in the Air Force because evidently you have NO idea what their duties are. Except for Pilots and SAR they don't do combat and they support and maintain the equipment and pilots who do.

And you are in the Air Force? I guess not because YOU have no idea who can be in combat. Did you know that the Air Force Spec Ops were involved in Somalia? Did you know there were many in Gulf War I? Did you know a scope dope might have to be qualified on the M-16 and fight?

It is reasonable to say that the overwhelming majority of the AF will never directly go into combat (though some do see it accidently). Sure, some small parts of the AF run missions that involve combat (flight crew, special ops, security forces, etc), but most positions are support positions. It is simply the nature of that branch. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, only that it is something which needs to be recognised. I think it would be reasonable to say that far fewer people in the USAF are cut out for combat duty than in the Army or Marines (and fewer members of the Army are cut out for it than in the Marines).

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

It is reasonable to say that the overwhelming majority of the AF will never directly go into combat (though some do see it accidently). Sure, some small parts of the AF run missions that involve combat (flight crew, special ops, security forces, etc), but most positions are support positions. It is simply the nature of that branch. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, only that it is something which needs to be recognised. I think it would be reasonable to say that far fewer people in the USAF are cut out for combat duty than in the Army or Marines (and fewer members of the Army are cut out for it than in the Marines).

That my be true but the standard has to be the same for everyone. If you are in the military, any branch, you should be fit for combat even if there is a slim chance you will see it. I think you would be surprised how many AF troops actually see combat.

The OP is right. It's disgraceful that a senior NCO will blame someone else for their inability to stay in shape. They deserve to lose a stripe.

 

[markgm]

Being in a family where three of us were in the Air Force, I don't think many people realize that they get deployed to hostile situations just like any other branch. It's sad, I too knew people who didn't stand a chance passing the PT, and didn't make any effort to try.

 

[Savij]

Tell them to stop wasting my tax dollars. If i'm going to pay a part of their salary, I expect them to keep their end of the bargain.

 

[Rickten]

WOW. 11:02 for a mile. That is a joke. I think i could briskly walk faster than that. From what you described I say Keep up the good work. What time do you need to get to earn maximum pts on the 1.5mile run. Under 9 minutes?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

It is reasonable to say that the overwhelming majority of the AF will never directly go into combat (though some do see it accidently). Sure, some small parts of the AF run missions that involve combat (flight crew, special ops, security forces, etc), but most positions are support positions. It is simply the nature of that branch. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, only that it is something which needs to be recognised. I think it would be reasonable to say that far fewer people in the USAF are cut out for combat duty than in the Army or Marines (and fewer members of the Army are cut out for it than in the Marines).

That my be true but the standard has to be the same for everyone. If you are in the military, any branch, you should be fit for combat even if there is a slim chance you will see it. I think you would be surprised how many AF troops actually see combat.

The OP is right. It's disgraceful that a senior NCO will blame someone else for their inability to stay in shape. They deserve to lose a stripe.

I doubt it

Personally, I would prefer to see that all branches have to pass the same tests, but that will never happen.

 

[nakedfrog]

Meh.

 

[maddogchen]

hmm i wonder how i would do in this, it seems like an interesting challenge. I want to see if I can get at least 75.

When you get back can you post how you measure their score?
What times are proportional to pts in the 1.5 mile?
What waist inches are what pts?
And when you talk about push ups and sit ups per minute, when it gets to the end and you are tired, what counts as stopping? if he pushes up and holds for 2-3 secs?

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Rickten
What time do you need to get to earn maximum pts on the 1.5mile run. Under 9 minutes?

Depends on your age group. For under the 24 and younger crowd, a 9:36 is needed to get the maximum 50 points.

Originally posted by: Chiller2
Are you in the Air Force because evidently you have NO idea what their duties are. Except for Pilots and SAR they don't do combat and they support and maintain the equipment and pilots who do.

You, sir, are ignorant. Airman are on the ground along side the Army Soldiers, helping escort their convoys, guard facilities, etc. Almost every time Airman deploy, they are subject to live mortar fire while supporting and maintaining the equipment. We are very much in harms way. I've been in the AF for 5 years now, by the way.

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
I didn't realize the Air Farce had any standards.

Up until a few years ago, the AF used a test called 'Cycle Ergometry' otherwise known as ERGO. Put simply, you ride a stationary bike with a heart rate monitor while a computer alters the resistance of the bike and tracks your heart rate. According to the exercise psychologist at the HAWC here at Luke, the AF went to that test to avoid injuries and cut down on medical expenses. While it is hard to injure yourself on a stationary bike, it did turn the AF fitness program into a universal joke.

The current program is much better, though it still lax compared to other services.

Originally posted by: Codewiz
Dude, I am overweight by about 40 pounds and I can STILL run a sub 8 minute mile. It isn't hard. I am 6'2" 225lbs and completely out of shape. I find it completely sad that someone in the military couldn't run a sub 10 minute mile any day of the week. It probably doesn't hurt that I used to run cross country and routinely ran sub 5:30 miles.......

For several of them, its because they have terrible form and very short strides. One individual moves his feet side to side more than he does forward. Another puts her feet down right next to each other, effectively giving her a stride length the length of her own feet.

Originally posted by: maddogchen
hmm i wonder how i would do in this, it seems like an interesting challenge. I want to see if I can get at least 75.

When you get back can you post how you measure their score?
What times are proportional to pts in the 1.5 mile?
What waist inches are what pts?
And when you talk about push ups and sit ups per minute, when it gets to the end and you are tired, what counts as stopping? if he pushes up and holds for 2-3 secs?

Google 'AFI 10-248' Everything governing the PT program is there, including point charts for various ages groups and alternative testing for individuals with medical conditions.

Edit - Our current squadron commander is very serious about PT and has yanked stripes from several repeat offenders. He may be a dick in other areas, but I'm definitely a supporter of his PT policy. He refused to cancel the mandatory PT sessions for both a commanders call and a quarterly awards banquet, insteading moving it forward earlier in the morning.

 

[sygyzy]

What's the issue with the ERGO test, other than how scared it made the subjects, driving many of them to cheat it? It seems to me it's a perfectly good test. I think professional cyclists use it to measure their optimal output.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I doubt it

Personally, I would prefer to see that all branches have to pass the same tests, but that will never happen.

Well, it makes sense that the Marines have stricter programs than the Air Force, but the minimum is so low that there's no excuse for failing.

If you're too out of shape to run a lousy 10 minute mile, go get a civilian job.

Originally posted by: Bateluer
For several of them, its because they have terrible form and very short strides. One individual moves his feet side to side more than he does forward. Another puts her feet down right next to each other, effectively giving her a stride length the length of her own feet.

Wow. Even without training, I would have thought that instinct alone would produce better form than THAT. How can you not know how to run? In high school I barely exercised at all, and I could run a 7:00 mile...and that was at 9,000 feet.

Keep up the good work, the military needs standards, and standards need enforcement.

 

[Kadarin]

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

 

[spidey07]

In all seriousness, they are not reaching their potential until they are puking.

I'm dead serious.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: spidey07
In all seriousness, they are not reaching their potential until they are puking.

I'm dead serious.

No, you don't reach your potential until you are on the ground puking and then you get up and run some more.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: spidey07
In all seriousness, they are not reaching their potential until they are puking.

I'm dead serious.

No, you don't reach your potential until you are on the ground puking and then you get up and run some more.

True.

I'm not in the military, just used to mountain bike a lot and had guys say "I can't do it, I can't keep up!" We made guys puke, just like we did when I ran track. And I'm a smoker.

You can do it, so "I can't do it without resting" is NOT an excuse. Until you are puking you have a whole lot left, just breathe.