Discriminating someone based on seuxal orientation...

[DWW]

(Devil's advocate)

Can't the same thing be said about everything though?

Child molestors have a chemical imbalance which causes them to "get off" on kids. That is just their normal, natural way one could argue. He can't choose that he likes children instead of adults and that he feels this unending urge to grab them and take them home.

Keep in mind that:

Child molestors have different brain activity when shown arousing patterns of children compared to adults when both parties are naked. This implies that it isn't a choice, it is just their very nature.

Thousands of pedophiles are locked up yearly and beaten to death in jail and when the public finds out. Do you think they like living in fear, being tormented each day? Don't you think if they could change, they would? They can't change what they are on a whim just like you can't be changed from liking adult women to 5 year olds.

No matter what society tries to do to help molestors they always go back. You can ask them "when did you know" and with a twinkle in their eye they would tell you they always looked at children, their own children, relatives children differently.

Note: I'm not excusing them but you can certainly see the argument can be made for many groups of people. And no I'm not trying to compare homosexuals to molestors in any way shape or form but the same argument works for either parties. Both groups are "who they are" and they can't change for better or for worse because anything else would be "living a lie".

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

And what makes you an authority on the subject? Have you been doing empirical research on the subject for years?

I don't hate or discriminate against gays. Neither do I seek them out to befriend them or try to understand who they are or why. I don't believe it's "natural" or "normal." That's me, though.

 

[acemcmac]

This sh!t belongs in P&N :|

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I don't think your prediction is completely true. Tell a parent that there child has a high chance of being homosexual but there is a cure available and I think the results would be the opposite.

I'm going to drop the subject right here because it goes too far off track but 2 things:
1) many would argue that it's not the parent's choice (there's no way to detect it)
2) my parents would never have made me heterosexual if I was gay. Why do you think I'm so compassionate towards gays?

1. If that argument was the one in the majority we wouldn't have abortions.
2. How do you really know that? It may be able to be detected one day. I am also compassionate toward gays.



If it is a gene/ sequence it is a disorder by it's nature. It goes against the very reason for existance which is procreation. It is trying to kill itself. Now we are trying to go against nature and allow science to help continue a sequence that nature is trying to get rid of.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
you're speaking to a brick wall on this forum mamey, apparently based on some of the posts I read this board is full of puritan garbage.

Yeah, I know it's pretty much pointless to post the above. But I thought maybe, just maybe, someone would realize that most of the time, they don't choose to be gay. If I can reach out to one person, just one person, then my job is done here :heart:

I nominate MAME for ATOT humanitarian of the year!

Any seconds?

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I have a q?...

How do you describe descrimination? I am speaking totally in hypotheticals here but consider this...

If someone who is a devout Christian own a company and it is against his religion to accept homosexuality, should he be forced to hire one?
If someone has a 'live and let live' attitude, and although doesnt go out of his way to give trouble to anyone, but doesnt want to rent to them, should he have to?

Again, these are purely hypotheticals. I am just curious on what general consensus of this board it.

If someone is a devout KKK member and it is against his/her religion/beliefs to accept black people, should he/she be forced to hire one?

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: DWW
(Devil's advocate)

Can't the same thing be said about everything though?

Child molestors have a chemical imbalance which causes them to "get off" on kids. That is just their normal, natural way one could argue. He can't choose that he likes children instead of adults and that he feels this unending urge to grab them and take them home.

Keep in mind that:

Child molestors have different brain activity when shown arousing patterns of children compared to adults when both parties are naked. This implies that it isn't a choice, it is just their very nature.

Thousands of pedophiles are locked up yearly and beaten to death in jail and when the public finds out. Do you think they like living in fear, being tormented each day? Don't you think if they could change, they would? They can't change what they are on a whim just like you can't be changed from liking adult women to 5 year olds.

No matter what society tries to do to help molestors they always go back. You can ask them "when did you know" and with a twinkle in their eye they would tell you they always looked at children, their own children, relatives children differently.

Note: I'm not excusing them but you can certainly see the argument can be made for many groups of people. And no I'm not trying to compare homosexuals to molestors in any way shape or form but the same argument works for either parties. Both groups are "who they are" and they can't change for better or for worse because anything else would be "living a lie".

I only read the first part about child molestors. And yes, it's the same thing. BUT, it's illegal to be sexually active with a child and they may do it without the child's consent. There's nothing wrong with two people of the same sex enjoying eachother

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

And what makes you an authority on the subject? Have you been doing empirical research on the subject for years?

I don't hate or discriminate against gays. Neither do I seek them out to befriend them or try to understand who they are or why. I don't believe it's "natural" or "normal." That's me, though.

It's not natural or normal just like being born with an extra finger isn't natural nor is having down syndrome.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
you're speaking to a brick wall on this forum mamey, apparently based on some of the posts I read this board is full of puritan garbage.

Yeah, I know it's pretty much pointless to post the above. But I thought maybe, just maybe, someone would realize that most of the time, they don't choose to be gay. If I can reach out to one person, just one person, then my job is done here :heart:

I nominate MAME for ATOT humanitarian of the year!

Any seconds?

Lol, not even close

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

I think he was pointing at the fact you would lose business hiring someone like that (at least in a hardware store). Shouldn't the owner have that sort of discretion on who to hire if they feel it will hurt them?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

If it is in sales and sales are affected then sure it does. Think about it.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I honestly don't know if you've ever met a gay person - my best friend is gay and are many of her friends - I've asked them this question and almost all of answered that they would become straight in a heartbeat if possible.

That said, why must people treat it like it's a genetic disorder when it's not. Honestly, I see it as a possible recessive trait, kind of like whether or not your earlobes are attached or not. There's nothing really wrong with it, genetically.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

I think he was pointing at the fact you would lose business hiring someone like that (at least in a hardware store). Shouldn't the owner have that sort of discretion on who to hire if they feel it will hurt them?

While a gay person may or maybe ill-affect a hardware store, I do believe people should hire anyone they want to.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Nothing really matters. Discrimination is going to happen no matter what the gubment does about it. If I own a business and I don't want to hire some filthy (insert random race here), I'll find a different reason to blame on not wanting to hire them.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I honestly don't know if you've ever met a gay person - my best friend is gay and are many of her friends - I've asked them this question and almost all of answered that they would become straight in a heartbeat if possible.

That said, why must people treat it like it's a genetic disorder when it's not. Honestly, I see it as a possible recessive trait, kind of like whether or not your earlobes are attached or not. There's nothing really wrong with it, genetically.

and most gay people say that because they're tired of being treated like second class citizens.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I honestly don't know if you've ever met a gay person - my best friend is gay and are many of her friends - I've asked them this question and almost all of answered that they would become straight in a heartbeat if possible.

That said, why must people treat it like it's a genetic disorder when it's not. Honestly, I see it as a possible recessive trait, kind of like whether or not your earlobes are attached or not. There's nothing really wrong with it, genetically.

Wow, really? I've never met anyone who was gay and wished they could be straight (outside the religious bunch). How old are your friends? Many of the people I know are well over 30.


EDIT: sh!t, I should have realized: I come from an accepting place (nor cal) and this might be why many gays are comfortable here. Thanks to CorporateRecreation for making a good point below

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I honestly don't know if you've ever met a gay person - my best friend is gay and are many of her friends - I've asked them this question and almost all of answered that they would become straight in a heartbeat if possible.

That said, why must people treat it like it's a genetic disorder when it's not. Honestly, I see it as a possible recessive trait, kind of like whether or not your earlobes are attached or not. There's nothing really wrong with it, genetically.

and most gay people say that because they're tired of being treated like second class citizens.

EXACTLY

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I have a q?...

How do you describe descrimination? I am speaking totally in hypotheticals here but consider this...

If someone who is a devout Christian own a company and it is against his religion to accept homosexuality, should he be forced to hire one?
If someone has a 'live and let live' attitude, and although doesnt go out of his way to give trouble to anyone, but doesnt want to rent to them, should he have to?

Again, these are purely hypotheticals. I am just curious on what general consensus of this board it.

If someone who happens to be homosexual is clearly the best candidate for a given position, and the company chooses to hire an obviously inferior candidate based on sexual preference alone, this is discrimination, and it is wrong.

Same issue with the rent situation.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I have a q?...

How do you describe descrimination? I am speaking totally in hypotheticals here but consider this...

If someone who is a devout Christian own a company and it is against his religion to accept homosexuality, should he be forced to hire one?
If someone has a 'live and let live' attitude, and although doesnt go out of his way to give trouble to anyone, but doesnt want to rent to them, should he have to?

Again, these are purely hypotheticals. I am just curious on what general consensus of this board it.

If someone who happens to be homosexual is clearly the best candidate for a given position, and the company chooses to hire an obviously inferior candidate based on sexual preference alone, this is discrimination, and it is wrong.

Same issue with the rent situation.

What about if it would hurt the owner? Why should the rights of some employee be greater than that of the actual business owner who puts everything into it?

Say you run a hardware and are forced to have some homosexuals on staff. Lots of regulars stop going there (you can't sue them for disliking your workers, can you?) and then as the owner you lose all profit and have to shut the doors, declare bankruptcy and go to the foodbank line...

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: fredtam
I agree we shouldn't discriminate agianst. Hopefully one day we will be able to cure the disease.

yes, hopefully one day there will be a cure for ignorance and intolerance .

I completely agree. Once people stop being ignorant and recognize it as a possible genetic disorder we can start working on the cure. One day we may be able to cure people with this and other genetic disorders.

ask any gay person if they want to be "cured". Quite literally every single one wouldn't even consider it. It's part of who they are.

It's not a disease, just like a preference to blue over black isn't a disease. It's just who they are and that's why we need to accept them for that reason.

I honestly don't know if you've ever met a gay person - my best friend is gay and are many of her friends - I've asked them this question and almost all of answered that they would become straight in a heartbeat if possible.

That said, why must people treat it like it's a genetic disorder when it's not. Honestly, I see it as a possible recessive trait, kind of like whether or not your earlobes are attached or not. There's nothing really wrong with it, genetically.

and most gay people say that because they're tired of being treated like second class citizens.

EXACTLY

How? Most of the people I come into contact with have no idea if I'm straight or not.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: spidey07
What kind of discrimination are we talking? Also discrimination doesn't mean "hate"

I believe an employer can choose whoever they want for a position.

For instance - you wouldn't hire an obese person for a swimwear catalog. Nor would you hire a homosexual for a hardware store.

Wanna talk about discrimination? Then let's talk about obese and ugly people and the troubles THEY face. I wonder when that will be "fixed?"

WTF? Being homosexual has no effect on a persons ability to do a job. You're drudging up stereotypes.

If it is in sales and sales are affected then sure it does. Think about it.

It doesn't have anything to do with them being gay, but to do with them not being qualified for the job. 90% of the time, you'd never be able to tell if someone was gay just by meeting them once in an enviroment like a store. If a person if proficient in their job, and works by a code of ethics, their sexual orientation will not matter.

 

[spidey07]

It doesn't have anything to do with them being gay, but to do with them not being qualified for the job. 90% of the time, you'd never be able to tell if someone was gay just by meeting them once in an enviroment like a store. If a person if proficient in their job, and works by a code of ethics, their sexual orientation will not matter.

I'm afraid you live in a fantasy world. Please take no offense, but that view does not reflect reality.

Everything matters. If I'm picking a salesman then they better be good at sales and customers should feel at ease. Sadly, many don't feel at ease around homosexuals and I wouldn't want to eliminate potential sales especially when most of said customers would be blue collar males.

and in my experience 90% of the time you can tell if someone is homosexual within a few minutes. Personally I couldn't care less. I'm trying to look at the topic from a "realist" point of view and in a way playing devils advocate.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I have a q?...

How do you describe descrimination? I am speaking totally in hypotheticals here but consider this...

If someone who is a devout Christian own a company and it is against his religion to accept homosexuality, should he be forced to hire one?
If someone has a 'live and let live' attitude, and although doesnt go out of his way to give trouble to anyone, but doesnt want to rent to them, should he have to?

Again, these are purely hypotheticals. I am just curious on what general consensus of this board it.

If someone who happens to be homosexual is clearly the best candidate for a given position, and the company chooses to hire an obviously inferior candidate based on sexual preference alone, this is discrimination, and it is wrong.

Same issue with the rent situation.

Ok, while that would seem fine in an ideal world, what about the freedom of religion for the shop owner and rentor? Is it a clear violation of the shop owners freedom of religion to be forced to hire someone who is in direct conflict of their religious beliefs? And, besides the legal ramifications, is it right to force one person to hire another against thier desire? If someone owns a business, or a home for rent, do they not have the right to decide who they want to be in contact with?

This is an interesting topic to me. I am interested in where one draws the line between freedoms. The freedom for the homosexual to be treated with dignity and the shop/home owners right to freedom of association and religion.