Discovery Channel: Greatest American

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Siva
Ford was a racist... how is that a great American? Wouldn't a great American embody the spirit that this country was founded on? A great inventor or a great industrialist maybe... A great American though...?

You are going to find a skeleton in the closet for everyone. Period.

True, but Ford was an outspoken anti-semite and supporter of the Nazi regime. He even built an assembly plant in Berlin during the Wehrmact's pre-WWII build up.

I agree w/ Siva on this one.

 

[Amused]

I would have put Jefferson at the top of the list.

That he and James Madison were not even in the top ten shows just how fscked up our education system is.

The writers of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights not even on the list? Sad.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
why i watch pbs, not discovery

This list wasn't compiled by the Discovery Channel. It was created by Americans that voted.

American voted to have Dubya run against Gore.

Frankly, I take the way the masses of Americans vote very lightly...

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Siva
Ford was a racist... how is that a great American? Wouldn't a great American embody the spirit that this country was founded on? A great inventor or a great industrialist maybe... A great American though...?

Though I bet you love Lincoln, right?

I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality...

And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

 

[jstack]

Want to know why the list is so retarded? They were voted on by AOL subscribers.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: jstack
Want to know why the list is so retarded? They were voted on by AOL suscribers.

Oh the IRONY!

 

[corpseofworms]

Clinton truly is a great American. Let's face it: Which of us isn't a horny liar who likes thick girls?

 

[jstack]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: jstack
Want to know why the list is so retarded? They were voted on by AOL suscribers.

Oh the IRONY!

Fixed. Don't tell me you've never left out a letter. I often leave out entire words when I type in IRC.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: jstack

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: jstack
Want to know why the list is so retarded? They were voted on by AOL suscribers.

Oh the IRONY!

Fixed. Don't tell me you've never left out a letter. I often leave out entire words when I type in IRC.

Don't deny the irony, and I wont deny I make typos.

 

[shilala]

Ronald Reagan in the same company as Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington?
Ron should be lumped with Oprah, George and Bill in the first place.
Honest Abe clearly walked through fire. Ron ate fvckin jelly beans.
Where's Bill Gates? His accomplishments and contributions to mankind far outweigh Ron's.

 

[tyler811]

But, also inlcuded in the top 10:
OPRAH WINFREY!
GEORGE W. BUSH!
BILL CLINTON!
:disgust::frown::roll:

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Siva
Ford was a racist... how is that a great American? Wouldn't a great American embody the spirit that this country was founded on? A great inventor or a great industrialist maybe... A great American though...?

Though I bet you love Lincoln, right?

I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality...

And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

and he flipped and flopped. in the end he was for giving the blacks citizenship and voting rights. and this pissed off his assassin most of all, the whole idea of giving these inferior dogs citizenship!! outrageous! and he stated as such. its not that simple. but for his day, his ideas were progressive. the ideas of his assassin which were shared by much of the south were FAR FAR WORSE. just remember that.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Amused
I would have put Jefferson at the top of the list.

That he and James Madison were not even in the top ten shows just how fscked up our education system is.

The writers of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights not even on the list? Sad.

Yes and I would add Alexander Hamilton as well.

Among his many accomplishments, Jefferson might very well have never seen the presidency if it wasn't for him.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and he flipped and flopped. in the end he was for giving the blacks citizenship and voting rights. and this pissed off his assassin most of all, and he stated as such. its not that simple. but for his day, his ideas were progressive. the ideas of his assassin which were shared by much of the south were FAR FAR WORSE. just remember that.

Because of him we see the longstanding right to secession squashed.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Siva
Ford was a racist... how is that a great American? Wouldn't a great American embody the spirit that this country was founded on? A great inventor or a great industrialist maybe... A great American though...?

Though I bet you love Lincoln, right?

I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality...

And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

and he flipped and flopped. in the end he was for giving the blacks citizenship and voting rights. and this pissed off his assassin most of all, and he stated as such. its not that simple. but for his day, his ideas were progressive.

I see it as a man putting aside his personal convictions to do the will of the people.
People tend to assume that people of that day hated blacks. They didn't hate them, they thought of them as inferiors. They were tools.
When slaves were released from bondage, they became the scapegoats. They were the embodiment of the hatred that the South had for the Northern governing body.
Imagine how you'd feel if the government passed a law that took away your wealth or your livelihood.
You're going to end up hating someone.
Black people were the obvious choice.
There's not a bit of "tone" in Lincoln's quote. There's not a bit of hatred there.
Ignorance, yes. Hatred, no.

I don't think it detracts from Lincoln's accomplishments at all.
Now, take Henry Ford. He was an asshole, and he was a hater.

 

[SVT Cobra]

lol AOL subscirbers...

 

[ElFenix]

i woulda put TR or hemingway on there myself.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: silverpig
Reminds me of the greatest Canadian the CBC ran for quite a while. That was a great series.

I believe they referenced that show during the Greatest American. It was Tommy Douglas, no?

I believe it was. Although Banting was pretty damn amazing too.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Siva
Ford was a racist... how is that a great American? Wouldn't a great American embody the spirit that this country was founded on? A great inventor or a great industrialist maybe... A great American though...?

Though I bet you love Lincoln, right?

I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality...

And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

Did I ever say anything about loving Lincoln?

I think this whole list is BS. The people who voted for this list, not historians but just random people who happen to watch the discovery channel, were probably entirely ignorant as the history behind these people, their achievements and their failings.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
why i watch pbs, not discovery

This list wasn't compiled by the Discovery Channel. It was created by Americans that voted.

American voted to have Dubya run against Gore.

Frankly, I take the way the masses of Americans vote very lightly...

I agree completely. However, OrooOroo made the statement as if the Discovery Channel was to blame for this list, when they are not to blame at all.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: jstack
Want to know why the list is so retarded? They were voted on by AOL subscribers.

Actually, anyone was allowed to vote. At least I was able to vote, I sure as hell am not an AOL subscriber.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
why i watch pbs, not discovery

This list wasn't compiled by the Discovery Channel. It was created by Americans that voted.

American voted to have Dubya run against Gore.

Frankly, I take the way the masses of Americans vote very lightly...

I agree completely. However, OrooOroo made the statement as if the Discovery Channel was to blame for this list, when they are not to blame at all.

they allowed this bs

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and he flipped and flopped. in the end he was for giving the blacks citizenship and voting rights. and this pissed off his assassin most of all, and he stated as such. its not that simple. but for his day, his ideas were progressive. the ideas of his assassin which were shared by much of the south were FAR FAR WORSE. just remember that.

Because of him we see the longstanding right to secession squashed.

Alexander Stevens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America, stated, "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon, the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery - subordination to the superior race - is his natural and normal condition."

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and he flipped and flopped. in the end he was for giving the blacks citizenship and voting rights. and this pissed off his assassin most of all, and he stated as such. its not that simple. but for his day, his ideas were progressive. the ideas of his assassin which were shared by much of the south were FAR FAR WORSE. just remember that.

Because of him we see the longstanding right to secession squashed.

Alexander Stevens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America, stated, "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon, the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery - subordination to the superior race - is his natural and normal condition."

Ok, ignore that for a second. Lincoln singlehandedly removed a longstanding right to secede. Lincoln wasn't about protecting the slaves, he wanted to keep the union together.

 

[frx218]

How do you define greatness?