Disaster.. PC Won't Boot even into BIOS - Need to Diagnose

[IPvFletch]

You guys won't believe this...

Last night I finally got fed up with Vista Ultimate 64bit.. And so I installed XP 2600 and bought an XP key through MSFT activation even.. I know, I know, I'm a nice guy, right?

Anyways, Karma still bent me over..

I installed SP2, all my apps (I had a 1-page list printed in notepad 12pt font) - got all my drivers installed, installed all the drivers for all the USB sh*t I have that wouldn't work under Vista 64, like my ups, rhode podcast mic, ebay $10 special web cam, iphone, etc.. I was so happy to finally be rid of Vista and back to a real OS which has now gone through years of bugfixing..

EVERYTHING WORKED FLAWLESSLY!!!!

I rebooted at least a dozen times making sure all was perfect.. went in to XP and made a system restore point just in case I broke something else down the road...

IT WAS ALL GOOD...

Then I go to go to sleep, after 5 hours of daunting work, and put it into Standby.

Before I left, I was like, maybe I should see how it sleeps, because when I ran Vista before, it would usually wake up fine but sometimes I would lose my suspend-to-ram data, and lose all my open windows, in a full reboot..

So I woke it up..

IMMEDIATELY it bluescreened.. I was like NOOO !! DOH !! Now I remember XP..

Anyways before the BSOD was even finished, like literally only a second into it, it rebooted.

But it never booted back up.

It acts like it is asleep now, but it won't wake up.

But I am fearing HW failure, i.e. CPU/MOBO or more.. *yikes*

My DVD roms are working
All my fans are working
Keyboard is getting signal
My USB hub is being powered (off only the USB port itself)
My mouse is not getting power
No video
No normal beep
No CMOS/BIOS screens
HDs appear to be spinning

Reset CMOS battery, nothing.

Switched on and off the back power supply switch, even unplugged it, in like 100 different combinations with the power on button, but nothing is fixing it.

No smell.. but still could be some kind of power failure.

Oh I pulled my vid card to get t othe CMOS batt, and forgot to plug in the 12v plug to it, and when I powered it on again it beeped continuously, so it seems like the mobo is working somewhat normally, but who really knows..

If it were a CPU issue, it would do this, right? MOBO too though probably, right? The only thing I recall was prior to XP installation, I went into the BIOS, and had set it back to 32bit power mgmt setting, and also I loaded optimal defaults for the CPU, and when the BIOS booted, it was now 3.0GHz (3x999) whereas before it was showing 2.77GHz... So maybe I accidentally OC'd my CPU and fried it????? *shrug* But the settings all showed as OK and safe in the voltage in the BIOS, and it was a loaded "optimized default" so.... *shrug*

IN ANY EVENT..

After I wiped some tears from my eyes, I realized I need to diagnose this first, because I'm not spending another $1000 on that CPU just to see if it is the problem or not...

=

SO ANY GUIDANCE OR THOUGHTS ARE WELCOMED!!!

Oh and my other PC here which I could try to swap parts into is way too low end and has wrong sockets, etc.. =

 

[Roguestar]

Did you check the beeps with the error codes in your motherboard manual?

Try booting the motherboard with only the CPU, graphics card and RAM plugged in and see if it does. Also try looking around in the Computer Help forum and seeing if they have any similar, solved threads.

 

[IPvFletch]

No beeps, no nothing. It just powers the fans on and sits there. I unplugged all my HDs and DVD/CD players and it made no difference.

=(

 

[JustaGeek]

Try booting with a single RAM stick only. If one doesn't work, try another one.

If you can enter BIOS, set all the voltages, timings and frequencies manually.

Good luck!

EDIT: And check all the PSU connections, reseat them, especially the 4-pin CPU plug.

 

[IPvFletch]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!

1 SDRAM DIMM AND IT BOOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

So is it a bad stick or mobo is messed and can't use those slots anymore?!?!?!??!?!

OMFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JustaGeek]

Just add another stick and check which one is bad.

And ask a moderator to delete one of your threads - double threading is not allowed.

EDIT: Make sure that all your voltages and other parameters are set properly in BIOS - you might have forgotten something when you reset the CMOS.

The Northbridge might need more voltage with all 4 RAM slots populated.

 

[IPvFletch]

OK, so I'm guessing at this point I fried a DIMM. It even makes sense because the memory is maximized when you suspend-to-ram, right, and that is when it died. The surge of power and it still being way too hot I bet, killed it. I just need to ID which DIMM or DIMMs are bad now.. :-

My only possible conclusion as to HOW this happend all of the sudden, was that when I changed the BIOS settings to Optimized when I installed XP, it put my CPU at 3.0 and my multiplers to 3 x 999MHz, which probably made my memory attempt to also run at that speed, which it can't - it is 800MHz..

Is this making sense? I am hopelessly confused when it comes to multipliers and Hz..

 

[JustaGeek]

Run it at stock for now - and read a lot about how the multipliers work, or another disaster might just wait around the corner...

 

[IPvFletch]

any recommendations where to start??

 

[JustaGeek]

I'll try, even though I don't know your motherboard.

Rosewill RP600V2, 600W PSU
Intel QX6850 3.0GHz All AUTO for now - frequency and voltage
Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R not sure which rev, but installed drivers for v2
XFX 8800GTS 650MHz (OC'd from the factory)
USB Keyboard
USB Mouse
Dual Dell 22" Widescreens via Dual-DVI on the XFX
Panasonic DVD/CD-RW on IDE bus
Memorex External USB DVD+-RAM
USB Mic
Basic Speakers, which produced a notable static noise during at least two boots after drivers were working/installed
Lexmark 2470 Printer (USB)
4GB DDR2 800MHz SDRAM set the proper voltage (as per specs, ex. 2.1V, or +0.3V), frequency (800) and timings (ex. 4-4-4-12-2T) - do not leave the RAM on Auto(was told by Intel that DDR3 has too high cas/latencies still)
2 x SATA 100+GB HDs
1 x IDE Floppy
7-port USB Hub
Huge Intel heatsink+fan on the CPU - was retail box set
2 System fans, nothing plugged into case_fan though



For 4 RAM modules, if they all work fine individually, you might have to increase the Northbridge Voltage "a notch", until you are Memtest/Orthos stable.

Good luck!

EDIT: For XP use 2GB of RAM for now - the 32-bit OS won't recognize more than ~3GB anyway.

And I think your Vista issues were mostly related to the unstable hardware.

 

[IPvFletch]

Yeah, one bad DIMM - sure enough.. I'll leave 2 in now since like you said, XP doesn't detect more than 2 in 32bit mode, which I plan to run.

As for the math, how does this look..

QX6850 is a 333MHz core with multiplier of 9, making it 3.0GHz

It runs at 333MHz * 4 cores = 1333MHz FSB

My motherboard has 1333MHz capable FSB

My memory would then run at 333MHz x 2 (DDR2) = need 667MHz or better memory - I have DDR2-800 though

So why did my memory get so hot?

Maybe I changed something else and didn't realize it.. (I lost all my settings when I cleared the CMOS).

There's also stuff like clock ratios which are equally confusing - is that like a ratio of CPU speed to FSB speed?

I don't want to OC or anything, I just want basic settings to give me what I paid for (3.0GHz)..

Any guidance on this math is very appreciated.. Thanks all!

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
Yeah, one bad DIMM - sure enough.. I'll leave 2 in now since like you said, XP doesn't detect more than 2 in 32bit mode, which I plan to run.

As for the math, how does this look..

QX6850 is a 333MHz core with multiplier of 9, making it 3.0GHz

It runs at 333MHz * 4 (cores) multiplier = 1333MHz FSB "Quad Pumped"

My motherboard has 1333MHz capable FSB

My memory would then run at 333MHz x 2 (DDR2) = need 667MHz or better memory - I have DDR2-800 though - leave it at 667MHz in sync with the FSB - that's what I am running. Make sure you set the proper voltage and timings 4-4-4-12, and 2T command rate. And set the voltage to the one on the label of your RAM

So why did my memory get so hot? add a fan blowing on memory - it will help

Maybe I changed something else and didn't realize it.. (I lost all my settings when I cleared the CMOS).

There's also stuff like clock ratios which are equally confusing - is that like a ratio of CPU speed to FSB speed? leave the RAM:FSB ratio on 1:1 for now

I don't want to OC or anything, I just want basic settings to give me what I paid for (3.0GHz).. CPU on Auto settings will run at proper stock voltage and frequency

Any guidance on this math is very appreciated.. Thanks all!

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Can you give me the link to your RAM...? Or just make sure that 4-4-4-12 is correct. It might be 5-5-5-15 - just verify that.

 

[IPvFletch]

This is exactly it here:

http://www.crucial.com/store/p...x?IMODULE=BL12864AA804

BL12864AA804, as read right off one of my DIMMs..

Module Size: 1GB
Package: Ballistix 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR2 PC2-6400
Specs: DDR2 PC2-6400 ? 4-4-4-12 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR2-800 ? 2.2V ? SLI-Ready ? 128Meg x 64

It says it IS COMPATIBLE with my board, as per here: http://www.crucial.com/store/l...spx?model=GA-P35C-DS3R (select DDRII for the DDR2 listing after it loads).

So what settings should I be using as per the above Voltage and latency numbers??

Thanks!!

 

[JustaGeek]

Run it at 4-4-4-12-2T, 667MHz in sync with the FSB, and 2.0 - 2.1V max.

These are my settings, too.

Ballistix is notorious for failing at the 2.2V, so just set it manually to MAX 2.1V, which is (I believe) +0.3V on your MB in manual mode.

EDIT: The manual settings are important, because your MB is (most likely) setting it at 800MHz and 2.2V, which is excessive.

 

[IPvFletch]

ok, well my BIOS doesn't have those settings.. but this is what I did:

CPU is 333 x 9 multiplier, yielding 3.0GHz and 1333MHz FSB

Memory is 2 multiplier, so at 333 x 2, = 667MHz memory bus, which you suggested

No place to do voltages, but it said if I manually set the memory multiple to 2.0 (it had 2.4 which yielded 800MHz like you guessed!) then I should set the system voltage section to AUTO so it won't let me put +0.3v for system and there was no setting for memory either.

I don't know where/how to set it 4-4-4-12 but hopefully what I did was right..

Can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

 

[JustaGeek]

Just look in your motherboard's manual.

It should state somethings like that:

DDR2 /DDR3 OverVoltage Control
Allows you to to set memory voltage.
Normal Supplies the memory voltage as required. (Default)
+0.1V ~ +0.7V Increases memory voltage by 0.1V to 0.7V at 0.1V increment.
Note: Increasing memory voltage may result in damage to the memory.

Do not leave it on "Normal"

Set it to +0.3V.


EDIT: I believe that you have to set the System Voltage Control to Manual first, to have these options.

 

[IPvFletch]

OK, but if I set the DDR2/3 voltage manually, I have to set all the voltages to normal or manually as well..


???

 

[JustaGeek]

Read the manual carefully, and make sure that the default settings for everything else are on Auto (normal).

Change ONLY the RAM voltage.

 

[IPvFletch]

ok, done..

Is there any tool I can DL and run which will now tell me what my memory, cpu, fsb, etc are clocking in at now? Or test the setup to be sure it is safe?

Thanks!

 

[JustaGeek]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=1901991&enterthread=y

Memtest86+, test #5 is the most important.

Then try Orthos - I never run it for more than 1hr though.

Otherwise - just use it! If the setup is not stable, it will manifest itself in BSOD's or freezes etc.

But I think you're OK. If not - come back here.

Good luck!

EDIT: And get CPU-Z to check your settings.

For more thorough system info, get Everest from Lavalys. Well worth the ~$30 after the 30-day trial period expires.

 

[IPvFletch]

How do I measure heat during this time?? My mobo has some options to shutdown at X temps but I haven't enabled any of those.

I don't have an internal thermometer.. My thermo gun for my R/C car is not working either.. :

 

[IPvFletch]

Does this all look right (from CPU-Z)?

CPU
~~~~
Core Speed: ~2000MHz
Mult: x6
Bus: 333MHz
FSB: 1333.5MHz
4 Cores
@ 3.0GHz currently

MEMORY
~~~~~~~
DRAM Freq: 333.4MHz
FSBRAM: 1:1
CL: 4.0
tRCD: 5
rTP: 5
tRAS: 15
CR: 2T
DC Mode: Symmetric
2048MBytes
DDR2

SPD
~~~~
PC2-6400 400MHz - which is what it said
EPP
JEDEC/EPP: 333/400/400/500
CL: 4/5/4/5
Volt: 1.8/1.8/2.2/2.2

 

[IPvFletch]

Memtest passed all tests, including #5. But it showed my CAS as 4-5-5-15 Dual. It wasn't 4-4-4-12-2T like you told me... ???

2xOrthos in Quad core affinity ran for 7 minutes without any errors or warnings, but I need to re-run it later on during lunch or something as I need to use my PC right now for work.

Thanks for all the good info!!

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
How do I measure heat during this time?? My mobo has some options to shutdown at X temps but I haven't enabled any of those.

I don't have an internal thermometer.. My thermo gun for my R/C car is not working either.. :

Google for:
Intel TAT
CoreTemp
SpeedFan

They'll all tell you CPU temperature. SpeedFan will often tell you many other temperatures and let you speed up or slow down some fans.

 

[jterrell]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
Does this all look right (from CPU-Z)?

CPU
~~~~
Core Speed: ~2000MHz
Mult: x6
Bus: 333MHz
FSB: 1333.5MHz
4 Cores
@ 3.0GHz currently

MEMORY
~~~~~~~
DRAM Freq: 333.4MHz
FSBRAM: 1:1
CL: 4.0
tRCD: 5
rTP: 5
tRAS: 15
CR: 2T
DC Mode: Symmetric
2048MBytes
DDR2

SPD
~~~~
PC2-6400 400MHz - which is what it said
EPP
JEDEC/EPP: 333/400/400/500
CL: 4/5/4/5
Volt: 1.8/1.8/2.2/2.2

you have the energy saving measures turned on in Bios so it is "downclocking" the cpu but it does look right.

Maybe try the cpu-z with orthos or some other intensive process running in the background. I'd say keep default params in bios for now.

I dislike crucial ram myself Had a stick go on me in a small overclock, replaced it with cheaper patriot memory and it has been running for 3 years or so.