DirectX 10... When?

[apoppin]

DX10 cards come next month with nvidia's G80.

Vista comes pretty soon .. . . practically in January [probably]

"FULL" Dx10 games are due in about 2-3 years

Games will run slower on Vista than on XP

EDIT: Crysis is a full DX9c game with a few added dx10 features that may allow for faster geometry and more resolutions and higher textures. Real dx10 features won't be added to Crysis for at LEAST a YEAR . . . in patches . . . IF there is a big enough DX10 hw base.

don't worry about full dx10 games . . . '09
:Q

 

[Mr Fox]

Google it. No DX10 for WinXP, period.

If you would have read some of your seach Results..... You would have Learned That thru A Software Development Layer other versions of DX will not be directly supported, but rather virtualised by mapping the calls on to DX9.

In reality, DirectX9 isn't backwardly compatible with DirectX 8. It's just so happen that DirectX 9 also ships with DirectX 8 allowing games written for DirectX 8 to work with 9. DirectX 10 will ship along with DirectX 9, just not on the same DLL. It's no big thing.

So, once again, just wild unfounded panic spreading. It would be total suicide if Microsoft didn't still support all of the games written for Windows already, the vast majority of home users wouldn't buy Vista.

Check out this Link :

http://download.microsoft.com/download/...a3-088782200fe7/TWPR05007_WinHEC05.ppt

 

[tatteredpotato]

I tend to think that DX10 games may be able to run better than the equivalent game on DX9 in XP, keep in mind i have no technical knowledge to back this up, but they say DX10 improves performace, and is better able to manage use of video systems.

Also wouldnt you gain much of the performance back by disabling the aero interface when playing a game? Its been said the performance hit is because the desktop must be loaded in the bg in 3d, however the classic interface is not 3d rendered? It would be interesting to see someone test this to see if it would help at all.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BlameCanada
I tend to think that DX10 games may be able to run better than the equivalent game on DX9 in XP, keep in mind i have no technical knowledge to back this up, but they say DX10 improves performace, and is better able to manage use of video systems.

Also wouldnt you gain much of the performance back by disabling the aero interface when playing a game? Its been said the performance hit is because the desktop must be loaded in the bg in 3d, however the classic interface is not 3d rendered? It would be interesting to see someone test this to see if it would help at all.

dx10 games won't run on XP . . . ever.

DX10 allows for faster geometry and more complexity than DX9 . . . not that dx9 has been nearly tapped.

Dx9 games will run on Vista but they will be slower than on xp.

DX10 games will run on Vista starting in late '08

Most DX10 games will have a separate DX9 pathway for long time to come

edit over/

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BlameCanada
I tend to think that DX10 games may be able to run better than the equivalent game on DX9 in XP, keep in mind i have no technical knowledge to back this up, but they say DX10 improves performace, and is better able to manage use of video systems.

Also wouldnt you gain much of the performance back by disabling the aero interface when playing a game? Its been said the performance hit is because the desktop must be loaded in the bg in 3d, however the classic interface is not 3d rendered? It would be interesting to see someone test this to see if it would help at all.

dx10 games won't run on XP . . . ever.

Dx9 games will run on Vista but they will be slower than on xp.

DX10 games will run on Vista starting in late '08

Thats why i said the equivalent game in DX9 in XP, and i wasn't aware Vista wouldn't support DX10 OOB. Do you have a link to this info by chance?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BlameCanada

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: BlameCanada
I tend to think that DX10 games may be able to run better than the equivalent game on DX9 in XP, keep in mind i have no technical knowledge to back this up, but they say DX10 improves performace, and is better able to manage use of video systems.

Also wouldnt you gain much of the performance back by disabling the aero interface when playing a game? Its been said the performance hit is because the desktop must be loaded in the bg in 3d, however the classic interface is not 3d rendered? It would be interesting to see someone test this to see if it would help at all.

dx10 games won't run on XP . . . ever.

Dx9 games will run on Vista but they will be slower than on xp.

DX10 games will run on Vista starting in late '08

Thats why i said the equivalent game in DX9 in XP, and i wasn't aware Vista wouldn't support DX10 OOB. Do you have a link to this info by chance?

The REASON dx10 games start running on Vista in '08 is that's when the FIRST full dx10 games are due.

and Vista will NOT ship with DX10 OOB. . . . it gets aded in a SP or update later.

looking for that link

 

[tatteredpotato]

I had come under the impression that certain games would be "Vista only" due to DX10, Halo 2 for PC and Crysis are two that come to mind. DX10 is about the only reason for Vista exclusivity, aside from using them to sell the OS. I could see that happening with Halo 2, not so much with Crysis

EDIT: Link

"Direct3D 10 Beta is available as of Windows Vista build 5238."

From what I'm finding online DX10 ships with Vista at least to some extent, it also seems BC was cut from DX10, requiring a software layer to allow DX9 and before to play, possibly causing that performance hit.

 

[apoppin]

Crysis is a DX9 game [period]. it will be released as a DX9c game

LATER . . . IF there is a "base" of DX10 players on DX10 HW - NEXT YEAR - DX10 extensions will be ADDED in a PATCH.

. . . just like FarCry with SM 3.0 [/quote]

lets go to the horses's mouth:

Crysis Exclusive Preview - Technology and the Hardware That You'll Need to Run the Game

quote:

Yerli: If there is no [DX10] hardware, you have to use the software emulation, and because of its performance, it's no pleasure to work with. On the other hand, buggy alpha hardware can be really painful. We cannot develop techniques solely for DX9 or DX10, so we implement, create, and tweak the level with DX9 and adjust the code afterwards for DX10

.

and

quote:

Yerli: Crysis will ship with features that are exclusive to DX10, however, ultimately we will develop more elegant solutions with time coming forward, since we have implementation ideas that at this stage would fight our DX9 implementation. Hence we will improve DX10 even more after Crysis ships through patches, but only if the DX10 hardware base is big enough to reduce focus on DX9. Probably a year will have to pass by.

Crysis is a PURE dx9c game with 'optimizations' for DX10 . . . and LATER support for DX10 ADDED in patches . . . after a year.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Fair enough with crysis, but Vista ships with DX10

Edit: The article is says that Crysis ships with DX10 support/features. Why would these features be there if there is no DX10 when the game comes out?

Also im aware now that this game run on DX9 as well, many games will for a long time until DX10 Video Cards become the norm.

 

[Xellos2099]

Two word: Alan Wake

If you seen how good it look, you will believe dx 10 is the future.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: RedStar
but many already have vista rc1.

m$ keeps pushing back vista, and nobody really needs it

If it lives up to it's new and improved security hype, then everybody needs it.

LINUX HAS LONG BEEN MORE SECURE THAN WINDOWS.

by FAR. yet its adoption is far far too slow.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Two word: Alan Wake

If you seen how good it look, you will believe dx 10 is the future.

ahh if only MS was not funding alan wake. i am sure DX-9 can look just as good as what alan wake is toughting.

ps. the alan wake screens and stuff are actaully running on dx-9 hardware since dx-10 hardware is not available. so i guessi proved my point.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Two word: Alan Wake

If you seen how good it look, you will believe dx 10 is the future.

DX10 is the FUTURE . . . in a couple of years . . . at least.
Alan Wake is also DX9 . . . at least all the screens and everything you drool over is rendered in DX9
:Q

it takes at least 2-3 years to build a game - from the 'ground up' - with DX10. and they couldn't start UNTIL they got both the DX10 spec AND DX10 HW . . .

starting NOW . . . which means the FIRST [full] DX10 games will be late '08 and more likely '09

DX9 has barely been taped. Dx10 is more efficient than DX9.

AFAIK, and i cannot find the link . .. yet . . .

Vista ships with DX9 . . . that is all M$ promised.

edit:
Read what Nvidia's Tony Tamasi has to say about DirectX 10.

We already have a limited DX10 support in the game. Given that Vista is in beta now, we will expect to see changes all the way up to launch. Supporting DX10 before everything is settled with the driving DX10 platform will most likely be a risk for us, so we will want to wait until Vista launches and patch it out then. Seeing that Age of Conan is a Vista showcase game, this also factors into this.

there is more than this . . . but it looks that M$ is STILL making changes to DX10.

 

[amheck]

Does does the Aeroglass interface need DX10 to run? I had thought it did.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: amheck
Does does the Aeroglass interface need DX10 to run? I had thought it did.

found it!

nope . . . Vista's desktop is DX9

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1982033,00.asp">
The People Behind DirectX 10?Part 1: Microsoft</a>

ExtremeTech: Speaking to that point, we know that the desktop in Vista is drawn using DirectX 9. What happens if you have a DirectX 10 card? Does the desktop still use DX9, or does that switch over and use DX10?

Blythe: It continues to use DirectX 9. Largely the reason for that is when we built the desktop, that was being done concurrently with the design of DirectX 10. It becomes somewhat more complicated to build both the low-level technology and the thing on top of it, concurrently. It's better to sort of have a time gap between those. At the same time, we were making some minor tweaks to DirectX 9 to accommodate new features that were needed to do the desktop. For us, it's best to have one consistent platform. Even though we could imagine there being benefit to the desktop using DX10, it's better to do all the debugging and get it to work with DX9 and ship that. Then over time, as the hardware base builds up for DX10, by the time we do the next major release, we'd be looking at trying to move the entire desktop onto 10.

So Vista is DX9 for the desktop and it will be - eventually - patched to DX10. . . . so much for oob . . . look for Vista to be 'full dx10' by SP1 . . . or 2.
:Q

Don't FORGET that the CONSOLES - PS3/Wii/Xbos360 - are essentially DX9 . . . Devs will be programming for THESE - not DX10 HW . . . for a LONG time.


EDIT: you know . . .you guys should drop into "Video" occasionally . . . despite the continual flamewars and idiot fanboys . . . there really is a lot of interesting new info being discussed there.

and it MUCH better than before
:Q

[cant quite give it a 'thumbsup' yet]

 

[BladeVenom]

So DirectX 10 comes later? Doesn't the improved file system, and improved search functions also come out later? Why is anyone going to get Vista when it comes out?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
So DirectX 10 comes later? Doesn't the improved file system, and improved search functions also come out later? Why is anyone going to get Vista when it comes out?

to be first to pay M$ for the privilege of working out their bugs.
:Q

. . . probably because of the M$ hype and future promises . . . it should be a much more secure [gaming] O/S . . .
[does anyone seriously use Linux to game?]

heck, even i will migrate to Vista . . . around SP1
[skipping XP altogether]

 

[Xellos2099]

Well, I went t official Alan Wake sebsite and the producer said that Alan Wake will be Vista only because of the dx 10 support.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
This is Marketing Hype.... Trying to Bullshit people into buying...

DX has always been upgradeable. Windows 2000 is able to Run DX9 And to Leave Millions of paid Users hanging on DX functionality would be Brand Suicide.....

Microsoft is in a 98% profit buisness model that has most of the world addicted to their software, that is why their anti-piracy is a joke..... They simply want Fat and Happy addicts...

I have run Linux, and OS-X (Tiger) and MS knows they are not the only game in town.....

it all boils down to If there is a will there is a way !!

It normally is just marketing, but DX10 isn't. The changes are deep, starting with Vista's LDDM. That is just one reason DX10 won't operate under XP.

Then I predict Vista will be like "MS Bob" the Flop that was Project Managed by Melinda French Gates......... (Circa 1995) Good thing she was sleeping with the boss !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Between the "Palladium Initiative" DRM and this... Issue.... It will Flop Like a Mackrell in the boat.......

LDDM (Longhorn Display Driver Model) is only a factor if the Functionality is embraced by the Software Developers, and that Curve is about 3-4 years behind the Actual Implementation. "The Animation", and "Glass" Effects may or may not be adopted by the Software Developers.

If the Developers don't use it... you are screwed.... so as with anything else...The Market will dictate the future.....

The other components that enable this functionality will be put into a service pack update....but they would be foolish to announce that now... This Operating system is simply an enhanced NT Kernel as is XP.

Full scale adoptiong of this one will likely be delayed further then usual, since developers are feeling the steadily increasing costs of doing business already...making the idea of sinking money into developing for a standard the majority of you demographic doesn't have unsavory.

In the past, you just stuck a new copy of the latest directX that was needed on your install CD and the users installed it. Now they need to upgrade their whole operating system to get the features. Microsoft is counting on DX10 exclusivity to help push vista, but the developers have to use it before the users will want it.

I think microsoft may end up hurting DX10 adoption more then they help vista adoption with this move. But, I guess we'll see.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
So DirectX 10 comes later? Doesn't the improved file system, and improved search functions also come out later? Why is anyone going to get Vista when it comes out?

I thought they shelved winFS for good? (At least for vista anyway)

 

[AmdInside]

I believe they are still working on WinFS for a later date.