Digitimes: PC players host summit to find cure for ill China PC DIY market

[cbn]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20101011PD232.html

As China's PC DIY market is seeing demand gradually shrinking, several PC-related players including China- and Taiwan-based IT media as well as the Taipei Computer Association (TCA) will host a summit in Shenzhen, China to find a cure for the market with executives from Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Microsoft and several PC players all expected to participate the event.

Sources from motherboard makers pointed out that DIY PCs used to account for 50% of China's desktop PC market, but as the number of China's Internet cafes have gradually dropped, it is becoming more obvious that China's PC DIY market is already shrinking.

The topics including how to keep the PC DIY market alive, whether visual technologies could create a new business opportunity, enhancement of China's IT mall and any other new business opportunities, are expected to be discussed among the executives.

I thought this was interesting because (from what very little I know about IT) China already does quite a bit to encourage the DIY market already. They even have an open chassis called "S-30" for netbooks that is meant to accept to standardized laptop mainboards.

Opinions? Is consolization and proprietary designs ultimately where we are headed? Or is there still room for open hardware and chassis designs to be competitive?

 

[StrangerGuy]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20101011PD232.html



I thought this was interesting because (from what very little I know about IT) China already does quite a bit to encourage the DIY market already. They even have an open chassis called "S-30" for netbooks that is meant to accept to standardized laptop mainboards.

Opinions? Is consolization and proprietary designs ultimately where we are headed? Or is there still room for open hardware and chassis designs to be competitive?

It's hard for the average China guy to get interested in DIY PCs when there is already a plethora of cheap netbooks and laptops.

 

[ShawnD1]

It's hard for the average China guy to get interested in DIY PCs when there is already a plethora of cheap netbooks and laptops.

countries by purchasing power parity per capita (in US dollars)
USA - $45,934
Canada $-37,947
United Kingdom - $34,388
Mexico - $13,609
China - $6,778


You know those people dirt poor Mexicans who jump the boarder into the US in hopes of getting an awesome job like working at McDonalds for minimum wage? All of them are thinking "thank god I don't live in China, that would sure suck ass"
Even homeless Americans who smoke meth all day have more money than the average Chinese worker. The DIY market's biggest problem is figuring out how to sell things to people who are more poor than you have ever seen in your life.

 

[cbn]

It's hard for the average China guy to get interested in DIY PCs when there is already a plethora of cheap netbooks and laptops.

It would be interesting to compare "DIY" to "pre-packaged".

I'd imagine a pre-packaged system would be a lot cheaper for companies to produce/warehouse and ship than individual parts in individual boxes.

 

[pitz]

The industry is being pummelled by the increasing levels of integration out there.

When I built PC's 15 years ago, I had to select a video card, a sound card, network board, IDE or SCSI drives, IDE or SCSI controller, amongst other things.

Today, 99% of the time, you can just buy a board that includes all of that, shove it in a case, and you're done. Its pretty boring in comparison.

 

[zephyrprime]

I think people are just buying more retail pc's and laptop in China. DIY was more neccesary before because people were poorer.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It would be interesting to know, how many various netbooks are being bought by the chinese, versus being exported here to the US. Right now I'm typing on the CVS $100 netbook. It would be interesting to know if these are being purchased by the chinese in mass qtys, or if they are simply being exported.

 

[cbn]

I think people are just buying more retail pc's and laptop in China. DIY was more neccesary before because people were poorer.

Isn't a "DIY computer" more expensive than "factory built" if someone doesn't plan to overclock?

P.S. What incentive would their be to buy "DIY" for notebooks if overclocking potential doesn't exist or barely exists? Does anyone think the shift to laptops and other non-overclockable small form factors is one reason why "DIY" is on the decline? Opinions?

 

[ShawnD1]

Isn't a "DIY computer" more expensive than "factory built" if someone doesn't plan to overclock?

P.S. What incentive would their be to buy "DIY" for notebooks if overclocking potential doesn't exist or barely exists? Does anyone think the shift to laptops and other non-overclockable small form factors is one reason why "DIY" is on the decline? Opinions?

DIY is always cheaper. Companies like Dell and Apple charge a good 100x what memory and hard drives actually cost. Newegg hard drive price: $50. Dell price: add $654,241. They also love to configure the system with something stupid like 1gb or 2gb memory then an extra 2gb is $200. Like wtf.

 

[cbn]

DIY is always cheaper. Companies like Dell and Apple charge a good 100x what memory and hard drives actually cost. Newegg hard drive price: $50. Dell price: add $654,241. They also love to configure the system with something stupid like 1gb or 2gb memory then an extra 2gb is $200. Like wtf.

I have been under the impression the factory built top end desktops carried a good profit margin, but aren't the entry level "value" desktops from Dell, HP, etc actually a better deal than DIY?

 

[Idontcare]

I have been under the impression the factory built top end desktops carried a good profit margin, but aren't the entry level "value" desktops from Dell, HP, etc actually a better deal than DIY?

How would that be possible? If you are building an entry-level value DIY desktop then your labor is free, your profit markup after assembly is zero. DELL's aren't.

Sure an entry-level DELL is going to be cheaper than a mid-level (quality) DIY build.

But you can build yourself a super cheap low-quality product the same as a DELL and save money still. The folks who work for DELL don't work for free, and DELL wouldn't make the product in the first place if the gross margin wasn't at least 25%.

The reason most people don't usually waste their time or money doing a DIY value build is that they tend to want to buy parts that have some quality to them.

DELL is willing to shove a $20 PSU in the computer they are going to sell you, but you'd think twice before buying such a POS PSU for your DIY build.

 

[cbn]

How would that be possible? If you are building an entry-level value DIY desktop then your labor is free, your profit markup after assembly is zero. DELL's aren't.

Yes, but doesn't Dell source their parts cheaper than a home builder could?

P.S. Does anyone have a rough idea or guess on how many of these "DIY" computers parts orders actually come from the home builder (free labor) vs a small computer shop (labor charge)?

 

[Dekasa]

Hmmm, back when I started building, a $500 Dell & $500 DIY the Dell usually won out a little bit, but once you went much higher or needed a good gaming video card you could win with DIY. I think I'll head to Dell/HP, price their entry-level and go to Newegg and see what I can cook up. Be back in a bit.

 

[Dekasa]

Well, I picked a pretty basic HP system @ ~$550, including the $200 instant rebate you get, so a "normally" $750 system including:
Core i3 540
640Gb HD
DVD R/RW
2x2Gb DDR3 1333
Win 7 home premium
Onboard video, sound, networking, etc.

And for $620, with no combo deals and not really searching I got:
The same Core i3
A Gigabyte H57 MB
Good/Better DVD R/RW drive
1Tb Western Digital HD
Corsair 2x2Gb DDR3 1600 RAM
Decent case
Antec 350w 'basiq' PSU
Win 7 home premium.

Only thing it's missing is the "MS Office starter edition" which is apparently ad-supported and limited feature Word and Outlook(?)

So, conclusion is that you can probably match the price of a $500 prebuilt using better components if you looked around a bit, or you could blow it out of the water for $100 or so. If you have to upgrade anything from the base model pre-built, you're definitely better off doing it yourself. So, almost always build yourself, especially if you don't need tech support/bloatware.

 

[cbn]

Well, I picked a pretty basic HP system @ ~$550, including the $200 instant rebate you get, so a "normally" $750 system including:
Core i3 540
640Gb HD
DVD R/RW
2x2Gb DDR3 1333
Win 7 home premium
Onboard video, sound, networking, etc.

And for $620, with no combo deals and not really searching I got:
The same Core i3
A Gigabyte H57 MB
Good/Better DVD R/RW drive
1Tb Western Digital HD
Corsair 2x2Gb DDR3 1600 RAM
Decent case
Antec 350w 'basiq' PSU
Win 7 home premium.

Only thing it's missing is the "MS Office starter edition" which is apparently ad-supported and limited feature Word and Outlook(?)

So, conclusion is that you can probably match the price of a $500 prebuilt using better components if you looked around a bit, or you could blow it out of the water for $100 or so. If you have to upgrade anything from the base model pre-built, you're definitely better off doing it yourself. So, almost always build yourself, especially if you don't need tech support/bloatware.

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-580/fs

This Dell Inspiron has a better processor than the HP, a larger Hard-drive and even includes keyboard and mouse for $499. (Not only that but the factory built computers you and I listed include warranty support. The shipping charges for the one box the HP and Dell computer ships in might be lower also)

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Isn't this more of a General Hardware kind of topic?

 

[crucibelle]

The savings from DIY computers come with being able to carry over certain parts from one build to the next. Case, PSU, optical drives, for example.

 

[cbn]

The savings from DIY computers come with being able to carry over certain parts from one build to the next. Case, PSU, optical drives, for example.

You can do that with a Dell also.

 

[cbn]

Deleted.

 

[ShawnD1]

You can do that with a Dell also.

Yep. I've done that before. My friend gave me his Packard Bell Pentium 2 and I put it in a new case that could fit 6 hard drives. Thing worked great



I'll try to build that Inspiron 580 using newegg parts.

DVD burner - $16
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136177

Case with 480W power supply - $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811148044

Intel i3 550 - $150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-065-_-Product

1TB hard drive - $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152173

4gb DDR3 - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820141550

motherboard with integrated video - $67
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813186190

Windows 7 Home Premium - $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-754-_-Product


Shawn's price: $489

That's not bad considering I'm paying retail price for this garbage. I wonder what Dell makes on each computer. They buy each of these components in tens of thousands and they get bulk discounts......
Anyway, I still like my system better because it can be overclocked, it can be underclocked, and it can be undervolted. If I want to turn green and drop the voltage to the lowest stable value, I can do that. Al Gore would love me so much.

 

[cbn]

Anyway, I still like my system better because it can be overclocked, it can be underclocked, and it can be undervolted. If I want to turn green and drop the voltage to the lowest stable value, I can do that. Al Gore would love me so much.

Yep, I agree with you that being able to overclock/adjust frequencies/voltages is a major selling point of "DIY". For example, good value is generated by being able to overclock a $280 Core i7 920 DO stepping to beyond the level of a $1000 Core i7 975 Extreme edition.

This makes me wonder what kind of strategies they developed or will develop at that Shenzen, China summit and if those talks will translate into new products on our shores?

Maybe we will see some significant strategy changes if the collection of DIY companies is beginning to feel a lot of frustration in the competition against Sony, Dell, HP, etc?

P.S. The article mentions internet cafes, but I am not sure how that fits into this. Maybe someone else can explain?

 

[crucibelle]

You can do that with a Dell also.

Not really.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Not really.

If you buy a Dell, most likely you are not in the DIY demographic who can migrate parts. Heck, your average PC user isn't even interested in desktops these days to begin with.

 

[cbn]

If you buy a Dell, most likely you are not in the DIY demographic who can migrate parts. Heck, your average PC user isn't even interested in desktops these days to begin with.

I think Crucibelle is referring to the BTX case used in Dells (a detail I forgot about).

Still I wonder how much recycling a $20 case/psu factors in compared to overclockability?

For example, I could see the average PC user (who can't migrate parts) still interested in a "DIY parts computer" (built by a small shop) if it allowed him or her to change CPU frequencies (to the level of a much more expensive processor).

P.S. Just to make things clear, I am definitely not against re-using parts. If one day Antec or Corsair decided to make a really nice laptop chassis I wouldn't hesitate to re-use the part if the DIY industry was able to collaborate on a laptop mainboard standard. Of course, the nicer the laptop chassis and LCD screen....the greater the desire for me to re-use it compared to buying a proprietary laptop from Sony, HP or Dell.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, but doesn't Dell source their parts cheaper than a home builder could?

MUCH cheaper. Something like half the price on some components.