[Digitimes] AMD updates product roadmap for 2014 and 2015

[Homeles]

If this is 5W TDP then they would need to increase
frequency by 35% to be in parity with a Temash
4C 1Ghz 8W in geekbench , this would rise the
TDP by roughly 50% to 7.5W , quite an achievement ,
isnt it , given the Finfet hype and other miraculous
silicon that end being at least 50-60% more costly
than the much criticised TSMC 28nm....

From your link:

Bear in mind, the Z3770 is one of the least powerful processors in the upcoming Bay Trail family.

 

[Homeles]

Whoops.

 

[Abwx]

I can't see how you're painting half of AMD's power consumption to be a good thing for AMD.

I was rather optimistic about intel numbers , whatever...

Actualy if increasing frequency by 35% require as few
as 10% VDD uplift this would result in 63% higher TDP ,
so extrapolating from 5W would result in a 8.15W TDP
to be on par perfs wise with a....8W TDP Temash.

I told you already , silicium is not a miraculous
matter , be it in intel s hands...

 

[Abwx]

From your link:

Bear in mind, the Z3770 is one of the least powerful processors in the upcoming Bay Trail family.

Yes , others members of the family are Desktop and laptop parts with higher TDPs than the tablet variants....:biggrin:

 

[Homeles]

Yes , others members of the family are Desktop and laptop parts with higher TDPs than the tablet variants....:biggrin:

There could be better performance/watt parts than the Z3770 (and there undoubtedly are), but that doesn't support your side of the argument, so it's no wonder you've failed to include that.

 

[Abwx]

There could be better performance/watt parts than the Z3770 (and there undoubtedly are), but that doesn't support your side of the argument, so it's no wonder you've failed to include that.

Lower frequency parts are the ones with the best
perfs/watt ratio , that is a basic cornerstone for
whoever has some clues in electronic systems design ,
but whatever , you are free to believe whatever
fuel your hopes even if this contradict physics laws....

 

[Homeles]

Lower frequency parts are the ones with the best
perfs/watt ratio , that is a basic cornerstone for
whoever has some clues in electronic systems design ,
but whatever , you are free to believe whatever
fuel your hopes even if this contradict physics laws....

Hi there. Where I come from, there are such things as "better bins."

Perhaps you should incorporate such wisdom into your own.

 

[SlowSpyder]

So we're no closer to finding a definitive answer regarding Steamroller coming to AM3+?

 

[Homeles]

It's Schrödinger's CPU...

 

[Idontcare]

It's Schrödinger's CPU...

Ha ha, AM3+ is Schrödinger's socket, steamroller on AM3+ is Heisenberg's CPU (we don't really know where it is or when it will get here)

And folks said quantum computing wouldn't be a commercial reality for a decade yet

Oh what an entangled web we weave when we expect holes to do our computing for us :hmm:

 

[Xpage]

Ha ha, AM3+ is Schrödinger's socket, steamroller on AM3+ is Heisenberg's CPU (we don't really know where it is or when it will get here)

And folks said quantum computing wouldn't be a commercial reality for a decade yet

Oh what an entangled web we weave when we expect holes to do our computing for us :hmm:

somebody is being witty today. Seems like the rampant fanboyism in this thread is dying down finally.

I am very glad AMD is focusing on lowering power of it's xPUs to go into growing markets but I do think they are making a mistake not going for a 150W fire breathing, Pentium 4 spacer heat CPU for desktop people who believe we are in between ice ages and want to make sure we stay warm and to ensure we have more beaches, particularly in anartica

 

[ShintaiDK]

Theses are published numbers in technical docs
about processes costs.

Basicaly the cost per mm2 of bulk HKMG or bulk FinFet
is twice the cost of FDSOI HP , that is for 28 and 20nm
nodes , the cost difference will still be 50% higher
for the formers after two years depreciation.

Why dont you link them?

 

[AtenRa]

It really isn't. There may be some overlap, but you won't see 25W BayTrail SoCs and you won't see Temash in phones. And where that overlap does exist - for example 1GHz dual core Temash in tablets vs quad-core up to 2.4GHz BayTrail-T - I think "blows out of the water" could be appropriate.

Except of Phones, both will be available for Tablets, Laptops and Desktop. They will directly compete against each other in the same price segments.

Also be careful, we do not know exactly the number or cores, base frequency and TDP of each BayTrail SKU. If the following is correct, alot of people will fall from the sky.

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/72156/in...entium-after-will-have-igs-i-series-07042013/

AMD Kabini
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6975/amd-kabini-apus-detailed

AMD Temash
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6978/amds-2013-elite-mobility-platform-aka-temash

 

[Abwx]

Why dont you link them?

Because it s a PDF doc that i downloaded and we cant
post attachement , i ve no more the link but it can surely
be found with a careful research , the link did go directly
to a PDF document at the time.

The data is about FDSOI and competitives bulk solutions
costs on the mid term.

Apparently both high perf HKMG and Finfet require
significantly more steps , hence the higher costs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Because it s a PDF doc that i downloaded and we cant
post attachement , i ve no more the link but it can surely
be found with a careful research , the link did go directly
to a PDF document at the time.

The data is about FDSOI and competitives bulk solutions
costs on the mid term.

Apparently both high perf HKMG and Finfet require
significantly more steps , hence the higher costs.

So I assume its just made up numbers. No wonder considering getting that kind of information out of Intel is impossible.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Because it s a PDF doc that i downloaded and we cant
post attachement , i ve no more the link but it can surely
be found with a careful research , the link did go directly
to a PDF document at the time.

The data is about FDSOI and competitives bulk solutions
costs on the mid term.

Apparently both high perf HKMG and Finfet require
significantly more steps , hence the higher costs.

Can you email it to me? I'll put up a link.

steve_151@hotmail.com

^Don't make fun of the Hotmail address.

Ok, go ahead and make fun of the Hotmail address. :awe:

 

[uribag]

Hi there. Where I come from, there are such things as "better bins."

Perhaps you should incorporate such wisdom into your own.

Interesting...

"Better bins" for everyone.

 

[Enigmoid]

Except of Phones, both will be available for Tablets, Laptops and Desktop. They will directly compete against each other in the same price segments.

Also be careful, we do not know exactly the number or cores, base frequency and TDP of each BayTrail SKU. If the following is correct, alot of people will fall from the sky.

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/72156/in...entium-after-will-have-igs-i-series-07042013/

AMD Kabini
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6975/amd-kabini-apus-detailed

AMD Temash
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6978/amds-2013-elite-mobility-platform-aka-temash

And of course that TDP isn't really power consumption.

Pentium J2850, Quad at 2.4 ghz, gpu at 792 mhz, 10 watts tdp.
Celeron J1750, Dual at 2.4 ghz, gpu at 792 mhz, 10 watts tdp.

A4-5000, Quad at 1.5 ghz, gpu at 500 mhz, 15 watt tdp
E1-2500, dual at 1.4 ghz, gpu at 400 mhz, 15 watts tdp.

Clearly even with binning these chips are not going to be using the same amount of power under load.

 

[Abwx]

So I assume its just made up numbers. No wonder considering getting that kind of information out of Intel is impossible.

The doc is not from intel , of course , but from the common
SOI plateform , GF , STMicro and IBM.

They have no trouble estimating intel s processes costs
because they all use the same lithographic tools , mainly
supplied by ASML , and they forcibly know how much
steps are required for a given process and thus how
many tools are needed to have a non interrupted flow ,
that is , if you need multiple patterning for instance
you ll have to install more of the patterning tools
to keep the production flow being continuous.

 

[guskline]

So we're no closer to finding a definitive answer regarding Steamroller coming to AM3+?

SlowSpyder, your 9370 is looking better and better everyday! It's hard to put much faith in AMD releasing a Steamroller cpu for the AM3+ socket in light of its shift to apus.

 

[SlowSpyder]

SlowSpyder, your 9370 is looking better and better everyday! It's hard to put much faith in AMD releasing a Steamroller cpu for the AM3+ socket in light of its shift to apus.

I wanted the 9590, I thought I got one at a good price. But, Amazon screwed up and wouldn't give me the 9590 for what I paid originally. So, the 9370 was only ~$325 and I had a $30 credit from Amazon. So in the end I think I did ok for the money spent, I'll see if I can keep the heat down and get more out of it, of course. I plan to start the build this weekend.

When I went AM3+ I had hoped that there would be Steamroller in the future for the socket, but by then roadmaps were looking rather iffy. I still am holding out some hope, but I'm not counting on it. Some people seem pretty sure that Steamroller is coming for AM3+, some people seem quite sure of the opposite. But without seeing anything obvious on the roadmaps, unless AMD has something up its sleeve that will rival the 4850/4870 launch, I probably have the second fastest CPU the socket will ever see.

 

[AtenRa]

The doc is not from intel , of course , but from the common
SOI plateform , GF , STMicro and IBM.

They have no trouble estimating intel s processes costs
because they all use the same lithographic tools , mainly
supplied by ASML , and they forcibly know how much
steps are required for a given process and thus how
many tools are needed to have a non interrupted flow ,
that is , if you need multiple patterning for instance
you ll have to install more of the patterning tools
to keep the production flow being continuous.

I know that PDF, i believe i have it somewhere in the HDD. Ill post it later when ill find it.

 

[AtenRa]

And of course that TDP isn't really power consumption.

Pentium J2850, Quad at 2.4 ghz, gpu at 792 mhz, 10 watts tdp.
Celeron J1750, Dual at 2.4 ghz, gpu at 792 mhz, 10 watts tdp.

A4-5000, Quad at 1.5 ghz, gpu at 500 mhz, 15 watt tdp
E1-2500, dual at 1.4 ghz, gpu at 400 mhz, 15 watts tdp.

Clearly even with binning these chips are not going to be using the same amount of power under load.

Nobody said that TDP = power consumption. And be careful, im not sure those ATOM CPU frequencies are base or Turbo.

 

[guskline]

I wanted the 9590, I thought I got one at a good price. But, Amazon screwed up and wouldn't give me the 9590 for what I paid originally. So, the 9370 was only ~$325 and I had a $30 credit from Amazon. So in the end I think I did ok for the money spent, I'll see if I can keep the heat down and get more out of it, of course. I plan to start the build this weekend.

When I went AM3+ I had hoped that there would be Steamroller in the future for the socket, but by then roadmaps were looking rather iffy. I still am holding out some hope, but I'm not counting on it. Some people seem pretty sure that Steamroller is coming for AM3+, some people seem quite sure of the opposite. But without seeing anything obvious on the roadmaps, unless AMD has something up its sleeve that will rival the 4850/4870 launch, I probably have the second fastest CPU the socket will ever see.

What mb and cooler will you use for the 9370?

 

[Exophase]

Except of Phones, both will be available for Tablets, Laptops and Desktop. They will directly compete against each other in the same price segments.

Phones and tablets will be Silvermont's bread and butter, where they serve as top-tier products instead of bargain bin stuff that the netbooks and desktops will get. AMD will struggle to get more than the 2C 1GHz Temash in tablets, and you'll probably barely even see products using that. SiliconWars is right, the chip really wasn't designed for tablets (you could argue this is largely justified by the console wins, whether or not that was ever a driver in the chip's design)

You seem to think the appropriate comparison for a 1GHz Jaguar is a 1.46GHz Silvermont. The reality is that even Saltwell can comfortably hit 1.6GHz at around 750mW. I can easily see Silvermont getting to at least 1.8GHz in under 1W, and that's being very conservative. Most likely, sustaining 2x2GHz in tablets will not be a problem (but will depend on the cooling of the tablet, probably). A quad core targeting tablets will easily beat the pants off of 1GHz Temash in tablets (in CPU power).

Also be careful, we do not know exactly the number or cores, base frequency and TDP of each BayTrail SKU. If the following is correct, alot of people will fall from the sky.

They probably are true, and it doesn't matter. There are right now Atom D-series Saltwell-based chips with ~10W TDP that are barely better performing than ~2-3W CT/CT+ chips.