Digital SLR Camera Questions

[NuroMancer]

So I have a Canon Powershot Pro 1 that has a l series lense in it and I love it. But its time I think to pick up something a little better and I was looking at the world of the DSLR. Basically, I want something better to replace my Pro 1.

So I was in my local Camera shop checking out cameras and I was REALLY disappointed in the Canon Digital Rebel XT and XTi. It seemed incapible of focusing correctly. Now, I am wondering is it just the lense that comes with it that causes this?

For comparison I was also looking at the Nikon D80 and I was very impressed. Having never been a Nikon fan, I liked the quality of the shots it took. So I am confused about whats the better buy and why. I know you can add aftermarket lenses but I have questions about those as well.

Tamron appears to make lenses that work for both the canon line up and for the Nikon line up. I've heard of Sigma before, as highly recommended but I was just wondering what is the better choice between Canon/Nikon/Sigma/Tamron lenses for someone just starting in the DSLR area.

As you may be able to tell, I'm a bit confused so I thank ATOT for its help

 

[JMWarren]

What makes you say that Canon's didn't focus well? Could it have been camera shake?

 

[vi edit]

Buy not able to focus, do you mean that the lens was hunting?

 

[NuroMancer]

Well, I used them both several times, and I found that the Nikons image just seemed sharper through the viewfinder.

It eventually gave the little BEEP, that means its focused, but I just wasn't impressed.

 

[idiotekniQues]

first off ill recommend a pretty darn good site for information on cameras as well as some pretty good forums. http://www.dpreview.com/
of course the forums have their fair share of fanboys and fools so be thorough. i hear good things about http://www.steves-digicams.com/ for reviews as well

i have a canon 30d 3 canon lenses and one sigma. my gf has the same body and 2 canon and 1 sigma lens.

there are a lot of great deals if you go third party for some lenses. at the same time, do your research because sometimes those third party lenses have auto-focusing issues especially. my sigma 10-20 is an amazing lens, and i saved 100 bucks from the canon equivalent. so again, be thorough. one sigma lens may be great but the next not so good. just like mobos. tamron and tokina have hits as well as misses also.

sometimes the lens can be a factor in autofocusing. if a lens can goto f2.8 or lower, i know most canon slr will utilize that bigger aperture while autofucsing. because that f stop lets in more light the AF generally works better since the image on the focusing plane is more lit - right before the shot is taken the camera switches to the aperture selected for the shot.

read the reviews for the d80 and the canon bodies on dpreview. i dont think you can go wrong with either. there are some slight differences with the way nikon and canon produce jpegs, as their algorithms are slightly different. some people prefer the canon sensors because of lower noise, some like nikon colors or canon skin tones. it all depends.

however, while i love the 20d/30d/5d body style and ergonomics, i find the rebel series to be too small for me (5'10") average sized hands and not nearly as comfy to use. but if you went to a store you know how it feels which is what you should do.

my photography (amateur) can be found here - all shot with the canon 30d except for a couple shots with my little elph s400.

 

[idiotekniQues]

oops forgot my linky

http://www.simplyathos.com/

 

[vi edit]

Were you shooting in auto or manual mode on the camera(not the lens)?

Also, did you adjust the diopter before messing around?

I've got a 300D("original rebel") and the only time I run into focus problems is when I let the camera try and do the work for me when shooting in very poor lighting conditions. That's why you have manual override to outsmart the thing.

 

[NuroMancer]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Were you shooting in auto or manual mode on the camera(not the lens)?

Also, did you adjust the diopter before messing around?

I've got a 300D("original rebel") and the only time I run into focus problems is when I let the camera try and do the work for me when shooting in very poor lighting conditions. That's why you have manual override to outsmart the thing.

I was messing around with them both on full auto. Perhaps the poor lighting conditions in the store were messing with the canon.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Any DSLR should be able to focus well. It seems likely that the demo unit you were able to use was damaged somehow, or it was set to use a different focus area than you thought.

As for lenses...

Canon an Nikon both make some insanely good lenses. They both also make some pretty darn craptastic lenses.

Tamron and Sigma are the same way, though Tamron's "SP" line and Sigma's "EX" line are typically very good (though not as good as the best lenses from Nikon/Canon).

In terms of price/performance, the Sigma EX and Tamron SP lines are probably on top, though only just barely and largely because of price.

The "best" lens though depends on what you want to do. For a good "all-purpose" lens, I really like the 28-75 f/2.8 lens I just picked up for my Sony A100, it covers a useful range and the f/2.8 aperture is nice for indoor work. I'm sure that Canon and Nikon have equivalents to this Minolta (now Sony) unit. Sigma also produces a couple lenses in this range, if you can afford it, the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 EX DC looks quite nice, though the Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 EX will save you about $120 if you don't need the wider end often.

Let us know what you plan to shoot and we can give better advice. Fuzzybabybunny (a member here) can give you much better advice than I can, try to contact him (her?) as well.

ZV

 

[vi edit]

The "kit" lens on the Rebel isn't the fastest or the sharpest lens in the shed.

But it's lightweight and fairly wide, so it's worth the $80 or so premium you pay for it.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

In the price range it sounds like you're looking at I'd say to look at the D80 or the Pentax K10D. The Pentax is probably the best choice if you dont have any nikon glass yet.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer
Well, I used them both several times, and I found that the Nikons image just seemed sharper through the viewfinder.

It eventually gave the little BEEP, that means its focused, but I just wasn't impressed.

The viewfinder on the Nikon is much better than the Canon rebel series DSLR cameras which is one of the reasons I bought the 30D.

Still, the image through the viewfinder isn't what really matters. It only helps with focusing/composing shots. It is nice to have a larger viewfinder though.

 

[ElFenix]

sounds like the diopter needed adjustment.

 

[NuroMancer]

Well I live up in Canukistan (Canada), in a city called Calgary which is right by the Rocky Mountains. So I love going up there, and takings shots of the landscape, wildlife, and vegitation. I also enjoy doing shots with a person in the foreground, and a landscape in the background.

I probally won't take many potraits, but, you never know.

 

[idiotekniQues]

also, id hold off on buying a camera till the end of february.

one of the two yearly massive photo expos is coming up in a few weeks and major new products are expected to be announced. last year the 30d was announced there, i bought mine a week or two later pretty much.

while i doubt there will be any canon products for that market segment, the xti is too new to be updated - other introductions may signify price changes to these cameras you may buy.

canon is expected to come out with an update to the 5d and their top of the line 1 series camera along with a new Full Frame sensor with increased dynamic range. man i want one of those, but id have to rob a bank or sell my soul to afford it.

 

[NuroMancer]

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
also, id hold off on buying a camera till the end of february.

one of the two yearly massive photo expos is coming up in a few weeks and major new products are expected to be announced. last year the 30d was announced there, i bought mine a week or two later pretty much.

while i doubt there will be any canon products for that market segment, the xti is too new to be updated - other introductions may signify price changes to these cameras you may buy.

canon is expected to come out with an update to the 5d and their top of the line 1 series camera along with a new Full Frame sensor with increased dynamic range. man i want one of those, but id have to rob a bank or sell my soul to afford it.

That timeline works fine for me,
I am planning on a trip to europe for a bit to visit in April. So I'm just trying to figure out what to get now, buy it before I go, and get used to it before I so I get some great shots

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer
So I have a Canon Powershot Pro 1 that has a l series lense in it and I love it. But its time I think to pick up something a little better and I was looking at the world of the DSLR. Basically, I want something better to replace my Pro 1.

So I was in my local Camera shop checking out cameras and I was REALLY disappointed in the Canon Digital Rebel XT and XTi. It seemed incapible of focusing correctly. Now, I am wondering is it just the lense that comes with it that causes this?

For comparison I was also looking at the Nikon D80 and I was very impressed. Having never been a Nikon fan, I liked the quality of the shots it took. So I am confused about whats the better buy and why. I know you can add aftermarket lenses but I have questions about those as well.

Tamron appears to make lenses that work for both the canon line up and for the Nikon line up. I've heard of Sigma before, as highly recommended but I was just wondering what is the better choice between Canon/Nikon/Sigma/Tamron lenses for someone just starting in the DSLR area.

As you may be able to tell, I'm a bit confused so I thank ATOT for its help

1. There are many factors for autofocus accuracy. The Rebel XT cameras do not have the best autofocus accuracy, really with any lens. They'll get stuff in focus, but it might take a few halfway-down shutter button presses to get a spot on focus. One thing that I noticed with my XT is when I focus on something, the lens would get a focus lock. Then without moving the camera or the area of focus, I would press the shutter button halfway again, and the lens would again adjust its focus. Do it again, the the lens would yet again minutely adjust its focus. The lens would never stay still on an area of focus.

Now that I have the 30D, when I focus lock the first time and then do successive half-button presses, the lens stays still. It has attained accurate focus lock, and it isn't going to budge. Just FYI, the Canon XTi has the same accurate focusing system as the 20D and 30D. The XT has a weak autofocusing system.

Another factor is the quality of the lens. Lenses with stepper motors, the kind that are loud and you can hear clearly, are generally not as spot on accurate as lenses with hypersonic motors, such as Canon's USM, Sigma's HSM, and Nikon's SWM. This isn't to say that stepper motors can't be accurate though. Lenses from Canon and Tamron that use stepper motors can still be plenty accurate, but accuracy may decrease as you get cheaper lenses.

Yet another factor is the subject and its lighting conditions. Bad lighting, focus may be off, yadda yadda.

Another reason for perceived focus inaccuracy is that the lens itself isn't actually sharp. The kit lens that the XT comes with isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and what you think is focus inaccuracy may just be the result of an inferior lens unable to produce sharp pictures, or an inferior lens unable to focus right, or a bad body and/or lens that needs focus calibration, or a body that doesn't have a good focus-sensing mechanism, like the XT, or the wrong autofocus points were used (if you shot with all autofocus points one, expect variations in focus. You really should switch to just the center autofocus point for focus tests)

2. The better buy is a personal choice that is based on your own needs and wants. If high-ISO performance is important, go for Canon. If ergonomics are important, check out Nikon. If viewfinder size and brightness are important, go for Nikon or anything that's a Canon 20D and above (not XT or XTi). If in-camera IS is important, go for the Pentax K10D. If you want to buy used lenses, Canon will have a greater selection with Nikon not far behind.

3. idiotekniQues is right about lens quality varying tremendously between brands. Check out lenses on a lens by lens basis. Canon, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, and Nikon are all fully capable of making horrible glass, but are also fully capable of making excellent glass. You need to know the exact lens model you want to get, and then research it. A general rule of thumb is that Canon's L series, Sigma's EX series, and Tamron's SP series are their "pro" lines. Are there lenses in the Pro line that are not that great? Yes. Are there lenses that are NOT in the pro line that are excellent? Definitely. Brands like Sigma can be every bit as good as Canon while being considerably cheaper.

 

[idiotekniQues]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
also, id hold off on buying a camera till the end of february.

one of the two yearly massive photo expos is coming up in a few weeks and major new products are expected to be announced. last year the 30d was announced there, i bought mine a week or two later pretty much.

while i doubt there will be any canon products for that market segment, the xti is too new to be updated - other introductions may signify price changes to these cameras you may buy.

canon is expected to come out with an update to the 5d and their top of the line 1 series camera along with a new Full Frame sensor with increased dynamic range. man i want one of those, but id have to rob a bank or sell my soul to afford it.

That timeline works fine for me,
I am planning on a trip to europe for a bit to visit in April. So I'm just trying to figure out what to get now, buy it before I go, and get used to it before I so I get some great shots

it's early march this year (1st-2nd week) so any price changes (if they happen) could affect your purchase if you buy it middle of march. that gives u a few weeks to get used to the gear. that may be a bit short. so i dunno.

http://www.pmai.org/


if you log onto www.dpreview.com during that time they keep a very active blog from the actual event on every new product announcment.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Are you sure the optical adjustment on the XTi's viewfinder was set correctly? Diopter?

 

[SampSon]

Why bother with an SLR if you're using full auto?
The lens that comes with the Rebel is mediocre, at best. A new lens should immediately be purchased if you get a Rebel.

 

[NuroMancer]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Why bother with an SLR if you're using full auto?
The lens that comes with the Rebel is mediocre, at best. A new lens should immediately be purchased if you get a Rebel.

Because I want to get better at shooting and I used to shoot a firm SLR and I loved doing it myself . I just had a view minutes and was checking them out.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Just to add to Fuzzy's comments on lenses: Yes, all the major brands are capable of making real gems as well as real duds. The problem that many are seeing is Quality Control. The sharpness of even a Canon "L" lens like the popular EF 24-70 F2.8L varies from copy to copy due to minute discrepancies in materials and production. Therefore, the real anal pixel-peepers at DPreview.com will buy three copies of the same lens, evaluate them at home, and then return the two "lesser" copies back to the store. The one copy that is deemed best will be sent along with the camera body to Canon Tech Support for calibration. It's a lengthy and sometimes expensive process but possibly worth it in the end if sharpness is everything to you.

But I honestly don't think even the likes of Canon anticipated the demand for good glass. The DSLR revolution has caused demand for "L" lenses to sky rocket. Products that use to sell to a very small number of hardcore hobbyists and National Geographic photographers are now being sold to amateurs like me. Increased demand translated to increased production which has unfortunately translated into a decrease in quality control and the increase of sample variation.

$1300 may buy you a 24-70 F2.8L lens that is not as sharp at F2.8 out of the box as compared to a really good copy of the $300 Tamron 28-75 F2.8.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: SampSon
Why bother with an SLR if you're using full auto?
The lens that comes with the Rebel is mediocre, at best. A new lens should immediately be purchased if you get a Rebel.

Because I want to get better at shooting and I used to shoot a firm SLR and I loved doing it myself . I just had a view minutes and was checking them out.

the pro1 has all the controls available. and the lens on it is pretty damn good. it'll cost you a lot to get the same range in an SLR, and then you'll have to lug it all around.

 

[idiotekniQues]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: SampSon
Why bother with an SLR if you're using full auto?
The lens that comes with the Rebel is mediocre, at best. A new lens should immediately be purchased if you get a Rebel.

Because I want to get better at shooting and I used to shoot a firm SLR and I loved doing it myself . I just had a view minutes and was checking them out.

well using autofocus is a must on these crop sensor cameras as the viewfinders are not so great. but what about shooting modes for aperture and shutter speed? even if u dont, u will want to learn as it opens up a whole new world of photography to you

as others have said, the kit lens with pretty much all the canon consumer slr's suck. i know back when i was looking at the d70 from nikon, the kit lens for the nikon was pretty decent. if you get a canon, get a better lens ASAP.

some people may try to tell you that you have to have L glass (canon's pro line) but dont listen to them. it is not necessary. down the road if you have lots of extra money and can afford it, heck yeah get them, but people that tell u that L glass is needed to get good pics is full of baloney. but L glass is definitely usually the best for canon, its just very expensive.

not one shot in my gallery is with L glass.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: SampSon
Why bother with an SLR if you're using full auto?
The lens that comes with the Rebel is mediocre, at best. A new lens should immediately be purchased if you get a Rebel.

Because I want to get better at shooting and I used to shoot a firm SLR and I loved doing it myself . I just had a view minutes and was checking them out.

well using autofocus is a must on these crop sensor cameras as the viewfinders are not so great. but what about shooting modes for aperture and shutter speed? even if u dont, u will want to learn as it opens up a whole new world of photography to you

as others have said, the kit lens with pretty much all the canon consumer slr's suck. i know back when i was looking at the d70 from nikon, the kit lens for the nikon was pretty decent. if you get a canon, get a better lens ASAP.

some people may try to tell you that you have to have L glass (canon's pro line) but dont listen to them. it is not necessary. down the road if you have lots of extra money and can afford it, heck yeah get them, but people that tell u that L glass is needed to get good pics is full of baloney. but L glass is definitely usually the best for canon, its just very expensive.

not one shot in my gallery is with L glass.

Ehhhh... you don't HAVE to use autofocus all the time with crop sensors. Depending on your eyesight you can definitely manually focus well, just not with cameras with cruddy viewfinders like the XT and XTi. You can focus even better with additional focusing aids like split-screens.

If you're buying a Canon, I wouldn't even bother purchasing it with a kit lens. Just get the body and something like a Tamron 17-50mm, which is insanely sharp, and you should be good to go to start off with. Also keep in mind though that Canon currently has double rebates, but only on the 30D and 5D bodies I think.

And yeah, L glass is not necessary. I once had a 70-200mm f/4L and I actually resold it. The construction and ergonomics and focusing were great, but I personally did not see a rediculous increase in image quality over my other pictures that justified keeping it. The Sigma EX 70-200mm f/2.8 would have been a better buy.