Digital Rebel Kit: $899 at Dell Home after 10% off

[s0ssos]

quote:KEep in mind the speed and silence of the autofocus system is mainly in the lens unit (USM etc) and not the camera itself.

haha, sorry. i just find that funny. canon fast? naw. compared to nikon. wow, so slow

quote:The L lenses are insanely expensive

another laugh. insanely? go look at those nikon lenses. i would call that insane

 

[nguyendot1]

I have a nikon f5... the eos-3 is quite faster. I'd say they're quite comparable.

The D100 is no where NEAR as fast as an EOS 10D. I don't know what you'be used or owned, but I've used both, and thats why I own the Canon... Wow.. you're wrong.

Also, we're talking about lenses for a 10D or a Digital rebel. If not $1400 or more is not considered 'insanely expensive'...then what is it considered? Ask how many people here would actually spend that much... Not many because it is insanely expensive.

Nikon is good, Canon is better... probably why they're mopping the floor with Nikon as we speak.

Nikon doesn't own much market share of lens production, While Canon has about 80% of it....

Also, compare the 600mm image stabilized lens Canon L vs Nikon ED... Canon is quite a bit more expensive...to the tune of 2 -3k more... this trend follows on the other lenses beneath it too. Nikon has nothing on Canon's USM or diffractive optics technology. How about aspherical lens technology? It wasn't Nikon....

 

[s0ssos]

we're talking about speeds of dslr's. nikon's are much faster at focusing than canon's.

and for insanely expensive, you sure you know what insanely expensive is?
AF-S VR 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor $6700

what do you mean nikon has nothing on canon's usm? they have VR?
diffractice optics? aspherical lens? aspherical isn't even top-notch stuff. ED is

and how is canon mopping the floor with nikon?

 

[coomarlin]

Originally posted by: Alternex

Originally posted by: coomarlin
I read somewhere earlier today that the rebels sensor is basically the same as the 10D's, only it's been dumbed down from 36 bit to 24 bit. Not a real noticeable difference.

Does the rebel come with the same crappy usb 1.1 connector that the 10D has? Why wouldnt' cannon make it USB 2.0 or firewire? When you have a few 512 MB CF cards to download it can take a while with USB 1.1. I guess they assume most people use flash card readers.

Where did you get the information that it was dumbed down to 24bit? If it was it surely would have come up in dpreview. Anyways most people don't use RAW format anyways.

Yes.. it's a crappy ass USB 1.1 connector. General consensus is that Canon doesn't want people using the camera to transfer pictures to the computer. For that you should use a dedicated device (w/ firewire or usb2, etc). The same is true for the battery - you take it out and charge it in the (included) dedicated battery charger. This also prolongs the life of the camera and keeps costs down. I'm waiting for a hot deal on a memory card ready.. It took forever to transfer a full 1gig microdrive using usb1.1!

After digging around and trying to find out where I read that I remembered that it was in a user review at Amazon.com Not exactly the gospel. lol. But I was pretty sure I read it and that I wasn't going crazy

 

[jdcook]

Originally posted by: s0ssos
we're talking about speeds of dslr's. nikon's are much faster at focusing than canon's.

and for insanely expensive, you sure you know what insanely expensive is?
AF-S VR 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor $6700

what do you mean nikon has nothing on canon's usm? they have VR?
diffractice optics? aspherical lens? aspherical isn't even top-notch stuff. ED is

and how is canon mopping the floor with nikon?

Starting a format war should be the definition of thread-crapping.

Yes, Nikon makes outstanding equipment and, in particular, has many excellent lenses. However, comparing USM to asphereical lens grinding suggests that you don't care about the topic but merely wish to disagree.

Canon is mopping the floor with Nikon in the digital SLR market by having outstanding entries in all the markets that Nikon is in and in the <$1000 digital SLR market which Nikon isn't in AT ALL. Canon also has the huge advatage of developing and manufacturing their own sensor (unlike Nikon) and the 6.3 MP sensor variants in the 300D and 10D are remarkably low noise. Better than anything Nikon was at present.

I'm unaware of any tests comparing autofocus speed but would be interested in seeing them. But if you cannot put up, please shut up.

Finally, in response to your "whose penis is bigger" taunt, the EF 600mm f/4 "L" lens is about $7K. The comparable Nikkor lens is about $9K. These are the most expensive lenses in each line and, I think we can agree, insanely expensive.

 

[nguyendot1]

That was my original point, they're expensive. Insanely expensive... He had to come in being a hater and think that $1400 for the 16-35 f/2.8L is somehow CHEAP...


Aspherical isn't top notch stuff? Tell me how Nikon corrects the distortion on the edge of its lenses then? Especially with large aperture? Oh, thats with aspherical lenses...which CANON invented. And diffractive optics? That is the highest end as well... Go read up sonny... You're obviously behind. Did i forget to mention i sell digicams? And tha for every 1 nikon sold, about 20 canons go out the door? Did i forget to mention I work for the biggest Canon retailer in the world? Thats how I know. Nikon's technology is a year behind Canons. DiGIC is unrivaled in price/performance right now. Tell me one camera that Nikon has that can touch the performance and technology of Canon's G5, or Digital rebel for a comparable price? Don't even try to mention ANY of the coolpix series, especially the 5000 series...they don't hold a candle.

BTW s0ssos, what do YOU shoot with? You seem to think you know a lot about cameras... what do you use?

 

[s0ssos]

what's ED, mr nguyendot know-it-all? do you even know what ED is?

and also, comparing autofocus speeds of nikons to canons, have you looked around? tracking AF on the nikon is really good.

and just because you work for a canon retailer means you know everything about nikon? wait, you work for canon, wouldn't you only know, say, bad things about nikon? that's how you try to sell your cameras, right?

and actually, right now nikon's technology is ahead of canon's. they're introducing the d2h. canon has nothing right now.

yeah, you're right. there is nothing in the price range of the g5 and digital rebel. nikon doesn't have cheap cameras out like canon. canon is ahead in that area. but just because they make more means they're "mopping the floor with nikon?" so is nikon like going to go out of business or something? what about that company called leica. apparently, they don't have much market share. i guess they must suck also, right?
oh wait, have you ever heard of this company called argus? they sell quite a bit of cameras. i guess they must be the best. they sell the most. Obviously!

and btw, i use a pentax optio 550.

 

[nguyendot1]

ED- extended definition.... you should really try it. I have one on my F5 right now.... Hey, even better, i'll post my pics tonight... They'll speak for themselves.

And the D2h.... wanna quote a price on that? Or did you put your foot in your mouth AGAIN by trying compare oranges to apples? If you wanna compare the D2h, lets compare the D1S then too since you seem to like an unfair comparison...

Mopping the floor comes down to the bottom line. Who's making more money? Oh that would be Canon.
And just because my store is a Canon retailer, doesn't mean I am Canon biased because of it. Oh, wait, we're a Nikon, Kodak, Fuji, etc... retailer as well.. yes, I said NIKON. Nikon I liked 2yrs ago, but right now, none of their MAINSTREAM cameras are good compared to Canon... The term MAINSTREAM .... mind you...is where they make their money... or did you not know that?

As for Argus, once again you're going below the level we're talking about. It's like we're talking about Cadillacs here, and you try to talk about Bentleys, or Yugo's... Stay within the range man... Your arguments are useless if they don't stay within the same apples/oranges debate.
Argus also doesn't do nearly the same margin/volume that Canon does, nor does Nikon. Canon and Nikon are on the same playing field, and on the same field Canon is outselling and outperforming Nikon in just about every way. Stary a poll in here if you can, and see what people want and/or own.. Canon, Nikon.... Pentax..Oly, etc.... You'll see Canon is at the top... The people here aren't stupid, and they buy what they like and know is the best... And that'd be Canon

Optio 550...eh? Nice camera... I considered one... But you shoot with a P&S, where's your DSLR? I'm talking from experience because I own and use them, both at work and at home. You own a Nikon D2h? D100? I got rid of my D100 in favor of the EOS 10D... Tracking auto focus.. pffft... The 10D's autofocus eats the D100's alive.. And this is more of an apples apples comparison mind you..

 

[Alternex]

Ooh lots of hostility going on here
To most people coming from point and shoots it doesn't matter whether nikon or canon has faster auto focus (AF).. they're both insanely fast! I missed so many shots with my G2 because it took a few seconds after a half-shutter press to get a focus lock on!

Speaking of expensive lenses.. Is this the most expensive lens? Well nevermind that's a dumb question, someone's gonna say the Hubble telescope or something like that is

 

[nguyendot1]

Dude that's tight.

I'll take two, please

 

[s0ssos]

yeah, shouldn't say too much. this doesn't help.
oh, well, one thing: ED is extra dispersion. nguyendot1 says it's:
ED- extended definition.... you should really try it. I have one on my F5 right now.... Hey, even better, i'll post my pics tonight... They'll speak for themselves.

his comment can speak for himself. i'm outta here.

but yeah, the digital rebel is a really good deal. there's another thread with it for less, with the 20% and 10% stacking from dell (you probably have to buy those, if you don't have those already). goes to $700. pretty good.

no, it's not a point and shoot. it's big, humongous, heavy (well, sony 700 series is pretty heavy also, i guess. and big). it takes nice 6 mp pixels, has more features than most people will want, but it's just not as convenient. if you want another lens, either buy a big, heavy, expensive one (more zoom range) or carry a few around and switch them. that's not as easy as just using the 7x on the sony f828 (which is amazing. did you check out the specs on that? carl zeiss t*. f2.0-2.8, 28-200).

people say the quality of dslr's is better, but before you just get one just cause of that, take a look around. the quality of pictures coming out of other cameras, especially high-end ones, aren't that bad in good light. where dslr's really shine is long exposure (minutes) and high iso (in regular digicams boosting iso results in really noisy pictures). is that what you want?

if it is, the canon 300d is a steal like none other (for the present, at least. in the future of course better deals will come up. they always do with technology)

 

[nguyendot1]

My bad.. so its Extra-Low Dispersion.. You caught one mistake I've had... Want me to go through and nitpick through yours? Did you forget the LOW part of ED? Last time i checked, Dispersion was BAD, so why in the world would a lens stand for Extra Dispersion? You want light rays flying all over giving you a blurry picture? Yeah you were wrong as well my friend.
Let's not forget your 'aspherical isn't even top of the line' comment... Your comment speaks for itself.

Yeah mr apples and oranges. As I said, I use canon, so I'm not gonna focus so much on Nikon anymore. Sure I have it, but I rarely use it compared to Canon. You use neither, and have no place commenting on stuff you don't normally use or own. Its funny how haters don't even own anything similar to what they're bashing.

 

[stansh]

There have been some one-use 20% off "Select Software and Peripherals" coupons in the Small Business section at Dell that have been emailed out to some folks. These coupons work for this camera (and the Canon 1Ds too, if you want to go that far up the scale.) Shipping is free - it does not stack with the existing 10% off that is running today. Sales Tax is charged.

Check your email - the subject of the email made no reference to the 20% off coupons.

I managed to get the Rebel Digital for $799.20 plus $23.66 tax for $822.86 delivered.:camera:

 

[jdcook]

Originally posted by: stansh
There have been some one-use 20% off "Select Software and Peripherals" coupons in the Small Business section at Dell that have been emailed out to some folks. These coupons work for this camera (and the Canon 1Ds too, if you want to go that far up the scale.) Shipping is free - it does not stack with the existing 10% off that is running today. Sales Tax is charged.

Check your email - the subject of the email made no reference to the 20% off coupons.

I managed to get the Rebel Digital for $799.20 plus $23.66 tax for $822.86 delivered.:camera:

Oh now I'm jealous. But in New York I would only have saved about $30. What am I bid for my 20% off coupon? Actually I think I'll use it for a new monitor.

 

[jdcook]

Originally posted by: s0ssos
yeah, shouldn't say too much. this doesn't help.
oh, well, one thing: ED is extra dispersion. nguyendot1 says it's:
ED- extended definition.... you should really try it. I have one on my F5 right now.... Hey, even better, i'll post my pics tonight... They'll speak for themselves.

his comment can speak for himself. i'm outta here.

but yeah, the digital rebel is a really good deal. there's another thread with it for less, with the 20% and 10% stacking from dell (you probably have to buy those, if you don't have those already). goes to $700. pretty good.

no, it's not a point and shoot. it's big, humongous, heavy (well, sony 700 series is pretty heavy also, i guess. and big). it takes nice 6 mp pixels, has more features than most people will want, but it's just not as convenient. if you want another lens, either buy a big, heavy, expensive one (more zoom range) or carry a few around and switch them. that's not as easy as just using the 7x on the sony f828 (which is amazing. did you check out the specs on that? carl zeiss t*. f2.0-2.8, 28-200).

people say the quality of dslr's is better, but before you just get one just cause of that, take a look around. the quality of pictures coming out of other cameras, especially high-end ones, aren't that bad in good light. where dslr's really shine is long exposure (minutes) and high iso (in regular digicams boosting iso results in really noisy pictures). is that what you want?

if it is, the canon 300d is a steal like none other (for the present, at least. in the future of course better deals will come up. they always do with technology)

The D2H is interesting. The huge buffer is great and the Wi-Fi option is cool. (Though I wonder if they are sufficiently encrypting the data stream. Probably they are.) I'm surprised that they stuck at 4MP for this rev though. This is really a photojournalist camera and not of much use to me. Cool stuff though.

The 828 is very interesting. The "night vision" IR stuff is great. And they are finally going to accept CompactFlash! I don't think it is quite as fast (to start, to capture) as the 300d. The speed is the big thing for me. I haven't used many digicams (I own a Kodak DC290 that I got to run MAME!) and find the delay irritating. Plus the 300d lets me leverage my lenses that I have for my Elan IIe.

I'm very happy. And I love to see all the competition. I think Canon has a jump on the field but all the activity means that things are better for everyone.

 

[dshodson]

i hear this camera isnt very good for motion
anyone with experience with this?

i also own a elan ii and was thinking of making the move.

what would be a good lense for motion to go with this


D

 

[jdcook]

Originally posted by: dshodson
i hear this camera isnt very good for motion
anyone with experience with this?

i also own a elan ii and was thinking of making the move.

what would be a good lense for motion to go with this


D

I'm not sure what you mean by "motion". There are (apparently; haven't tried it myself yet) some annoyances for high speed subjects. Certain features (don't remember; predicitive focus maybe?) are only available in certain modes and the buffer is smaller than the 10d. The missing feature is a result of crippled firmware. (I'm hoping some clever person figures out how to restore the functionality since it is probably still in the chip.) If you are mostly shooting fast action shots you should probably consider the 10d instead. As for lenses, the lens in the kit is pretty slow. It is a very cheap consumer zoom. BUt it's nice to have. Especially since you can set the ISO for 800 and still have fairly low noise. But if you want a fast lens for general use, consider the f/1.8 EF 50mm (about $70) or the f/1.4 EF 50mm (about $350 I think). I have the 1.4 and it is great. (Though remember the smaller image area means it will only capture the same area as an 80mm would on your Elan.) It depends what you're going to be shooting.

 

[s0ssos]

Originally posted by: dshodson
i hear this camera isnt very good for motion
anyone with experience with this?

i also own a elan ii and was thinking of making the move.

what would be a good lense for motion to go with this


D

are you talking about predictive focus? tracking, like say at a football game?

 

[Alternex]

Originally posted by: jdcook

Originally posted by: dshodson
i hear this camera isnt very good for motion
anyone with experience with this?

i also own a elan ii and was thinking of making the move.

what would be a good lense for motion to go with this


D

I'm not sure what you mean by "motion". There are (apparently; haven't tried it myself yet) some annoyances for high speed subjects. Certain features (don't remember; predicitive focus maybe?) are only available in certain modes and the buffer is smaller than the 10d. The missing feature is a result of crippled firmware. (I'm hoping some clever person figures out how to restore the functionality since it is probably still in the chip.) If you are mostly shooting fast action shots you should probably consider the 10d instead. As for lenses, the lens in the kit is pretty slow. It is a very cheap consumer zoom. BUt it's nice to have. Especially since you can set the ISO for 800 and still have fairly low noise. But if you want a fast lens for general use, consider the f/1.8 EF 50mm (about $70) or the f/1.4 EF 50mm (about $350 I think). I have the 1.4 and it is great. (Though remember the smaller image area means it will only capture the same area as an 80mm would on your Elan.) It depends what you're going to be shooting.

The "feature" everyone was complaining about originally was the AI Servo mode in which the camera would stay focused on a locked focus as it moved either toward or away from you. In most settings this mode is on and cannot be turned off. However, it has been shown that this doesn't affect people. I have taken about 500 pictures (some action shots too) and have not seen this kick in. Phil Askey (Mr. Dpreview) made a lot of posts mentioning this isn't a problem and he turned out right.

Right now most people are complaining about underexposure with the flash (on board and also with the 420EX but not the 550EX). No word yet on how this is panning out.

By the way.. 300D has a smaller buffer than the 10D. This is in hardware and is in affect no matter what mode you're in. Hacked firmware ain't gonna increase the buffer size!

 

[jdcook]

[qThe "feature" everyone was complaining about originally was the AI Servo mode in which the camera would stay focused on a locked focus as it moved either toward or away from you. In most settings this mode is on and cannot be turned off. However, it has been shown that this doesn't affect people. I have taken about 500 pictures (some action shots too) and have not seen this kick in. Phil Askey (Mr. Dpreview) made a lot of posts mentioning this isn't a problem and he turned out right.

Right now most people are complaining about underexposure with the flash (on board and also with the 420EX but not the 550EX). No word yet on how this is panning out.

By the way.. 300D has a smaller buffer than the 10D. This is in hardware and is in affect no matter what mode you're in. Hacked firmware ain't gonna increase the buffer size![/quote]

Obviously hacked firmware won't fix missing ram. Otherwise 640k really would have been enough for anyone! The flash thing is interesting. Makes me glad that I went hog wild when I bought my Elan IIe and got the 550EX. (Or "portable sun" as I like to call it.) I wonder if there will be a Magic Lantern book for the 300d . . .

 

[jdcook]

By the way, a company called SterlingTek is selling 1300 mAH NiMH bp-511 equivalent batteries for 12 bucks each plus shipping. They seem decent.