I'm out of my element here but I agree. It would seem to be much easier to distort an analog signal due to the fact that the information is in a continuous wave form is more susceptible to degradation than one that is quantized (represented by a number system like binary). If the suggestion by OP is merely that both signals have time as a factor, well, duh.
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"digital" is NOT digital
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I'm out of my element here but I agree. It would seem to be much easier to distort an analog signal due to the fact that the information is in a continuous wave form is more susceptible to degradation than one that is quantized (represented by a number system like binary). If the suggestion by OP is merely that both signals have time as a factor, well, duh.
smack Down
Diamond Member
Bandwidth only matters if the bandwidth of cable is less than that of the signal. If a cable can handle 10 Gbs or 100 Gbs doesn't matter if the signal is only 1 GBs
SoulAssassin
Diamond Member
That was my post...what's your point? It was a question of whether cheap HDMI cables will get the job done...not if they will work with the wii, it just happened to be in the wii thread.
Specop 007
Diamond Member
They've introduced new bits into the digital world? Do we now have 0,1 and 2. I'll be damned. And all this time I thought digital was just 0's and 1's. Now I have to account for 2's!!
DAMN YOU!
DAMN YOU!
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
You can't stop the signal.
spikespiegal
Golden Member
So, what you're saying is you install Windows XP from a vinyl record because CD's don't offer enough fidelity?
Last time I listened to 'Linkin Park' on my home stereo transmitted via toslink from my PC it sounded like Linkin Park and not Britney Spears either.
At some point all those 1's and 0's, be it audio/video, have to be converted back to the analog realm anyways. I leave it up to the designer of the D/A converter to figure out the time domain problems and not the cables or interface connecting my gear dude.
BrokenVisage
Lifer
"And again, teh digital is not a series of 1's and 0's, it's a big truck!"
spikespiegal
Golden Member
Which is a software problem and not an issue with the digital domain.
Lets ask Hollywood studios how many pirated videos in terms of terrabits are pulled off the internet daily through international routers, satellite relays, stored in millions of packet buffers in all those routers and switches incurring time domain errors in the hundreds of millseconds, and then reassembled on your PC for your viewing pleasure.
So, transmitting data from one side of the globe to another is easy, but sending a digital signal from one home appliance to another somehow requires Stephen Hawkings to do it correctly.
Yeah....right.
But the transmission of the signal does not necessarily effect the playback of the signal. Sure, there might be some jitter or delays in receiving the signal, but thats what buffers are for. It doesnt matter how screwy the transmission of the digital data is, as long as the digital data is received intact and in time (aided by a buffer).
spikespiegal
Golden Member
The specs can be poor because the timing latency makes it nearly a moot point. Again, this is a function of the circuits invloved with moving the data from one carrier type to another and not the medium in play. You get what you pay for, and at some point the data must be converted to analog, even if it's propogation on an electrical circuit that causes a gate to register it as a 1 vs a 0.
A crude analogy is first generation CD burners that made coasters all the time. Gee, was it a problem with the digital data baing corrupted? No. Was it a problem with the laser beam being bent by a black hole? No. The problem was caused by poor buffering circuitry and other mechanical issues that had nothing to do with the digital domain.
Last I checked a digital signal, be it Toslink or ethernet could be transmitted across a multitude of media types and still retain 100% precision to the original source. Done that with analog lately?
TOSlink max length is 5 or 10 meters.
So that should tell you something about the quality of the fiber *chuckle* and the transmitters/receivers. Coax is much longer, don't know the spec. That's where the high bandwidth of coax comes into play - a higher bandwidth cable will not alter the edges as much as a low bandwidth one as length increases.
So that should tell you something about the quality of the fiber *chuckle* and the transmitters/receivers. Coax is much longer, don't know the spec. That's where the high bandwidth of coax comes into play - a higher bandwidth cable will not alter the edges as much as a low bandwidth one as length increases.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Overall I think in the VAST majority of cases, there are much bigger issues with people's systems in components, source, setup, and calibration where an issue like this doesn't make enough difference to worry about.
It may very well make a difference, but I don't think this is something significant enough that people should really be worrying about it.
It may very well make a difference, but I don't think this is something significant enough that people should really be worrying about it.
MmmSkyscraper
Diamond Member
Just don't cross the streams!
thomsbrain
Lifer
this has absolutely no relevance to any consumer. no one gives a fvck about bandwidth or transmission losses when they are connecting their DVD player. it's just not an issue. they can buy whatever cable they want and the signal will get there intact. they can use TOSlink or coax or ethernet or whatever they freaking want. and yeah, a good quality clock makes a difference in the resulting quality of the playback (or recording), but again, no consumer will ever notice or care. let the recording and mastering studios worry about clocks and transmission formats. adding more resolution and increasing sampling rates will make more difference than fixing the tiny errors in timing on the consumer side of playback, especially since it vastly decreases the effect of any given inconsistency.
sdifox
No Lifer
Digital circuit = Analogue circuit that has been castrated to represent only 2 states. And the problem with PCM jitter has nothing to do with "digital". It's a poor implementation of digital transmission. Packet based transmission is not subject to jitter issues. Toslink=Crap, you want optical connection, go AES/EBU or stick to trusted 75ohm 95% braided+foiled RG-59 coax. If you are truly paranoid go RG-6, but good luck on finding RCA connectors that fit.
I don't know much about TOSlink but I have a feeling thats because they use crappy plastic core cable not the typical glass core fiber used in communication system. Also single-mode fiber will allow for much longer distances because modal dispersion is no longer an issue.
Two things that makes all this debate worthless at best for most applications:
Talk about jitter and bandwidth all you want, you should not be able to hear the difference between coax and optical in practical listening tests.
The bandwidth of Toslink is more than enough to handle compressed DD/DTS streams and PCM audio
Talk about jitter and bandwidth all you want, you should not be able to hear the difference between coax and optical in practical listening tests.
The bandwidth of Toslink is more than enough to handle compressed DD/DTS streams and PCM audio
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