Digital Foundry: next-gen PlayStation and Xbox to use AMD's 8-core CPU and Radeon HD

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Tuna-Fish

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2011
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The specs for the the X1800 XT are clearly better. Yes the Xenos, has more shaders and uses a unified architecture but that's the only thing about it that is better.

89 million more transistors,
2x the ROPs,
more than 2x pixel fill rate,
greater texture fill rate,
higher gpu clock,
2x memory bus width,
2x memory bandwidth.

But yeah, nevermind all that, Xenos uses unified shaders, therefore it must be better.

It is. The key part is that the computing is much more flexible in Xenos, making the use of all those special-purpose resources much more efficient. Also, the rops are apples vs oranges, because the xenos rops are much more powerful. Specifically, they can do 4xMSAA for free, and they can operate in Z-only mode, in which each rop can render 2 pixels worth of z (*4 MSAA).

For example, let's look at a simple forward renderer, with a 2:1 vertex/pixel workload split that's ideal for the X1800. Simple forward renderers, using early z out, have something like 3-4x overdraw. Let's be generous and call it 3x. This is more or less the best possible case for X1800XT.

However, because the Xenos has much more shading power than the X1800, and because it can use it flexibly, it doesn't have to render like that. Instead, let's use an otherwise normal forward rendering, but add an early Z pass in front. This adds roughly +100% vertex workload, and 50% to rop workload (before overdraw). However, we've just completely eliminated overdraw. Xenos now has some 2.4x the texturing power, and similar remaining rop power.

And this is something that MS taught everyone how to do when they shipped the dev kits. Once you move into deferred rendering and all the tricks it gives you, the difference only grows.

Source: I have shipped significant amount of GPU code on both XBOX 360 and PC. Comparing Xenos to X1800 XT and saying X1800 is more powerful by specs is like comparing a P4 to a Core 2 Duo and saying the P4 must be faster because it has higher clock speed. Xenos is much more efficient.
 
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ZipSpeed

Golden Member
Aug 13, 2007
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Sony has confirmed that the PlayStation 4 will be powered by a custom 8-core AMD "Jaguar" x86-64 with integrated graphics APU and "next-generation" AMD Radeon graphics processor capable of driving 1.84 teraflops. As detailed at the event, it will come paired with 8GB of dedicated GDDR5 memory, making it competitive with most gaming-focused PCs on the market. As expected, the system will ship with a Blu-ray drive, built-in 80.211 b/g/n Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.1, as well as HDMI, Analog-AV, and optical digital output. Sony is giving I/O options a boost with the inclusion of USB 3.0 ports and a mysteriously vague "AUX" port. Each system will ship a "Mono Headset" for cross-game chat and other social features.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02...tation-4-processing-specs-dualshock-4-and-eye
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
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8 GB of GDDR5? Wow, that's a lot. Rumors had it at 4 GB, but this is plenty. Assuming the console doesn't have a castrated memory interface, the PS4 should have enough memory bandwidth for all the AA, high resolution textures, draw distances, and other memory-heavy effects that one could hope for.

I heard that the CPU and GPU are going to be on the same die. That'll be a fairly large die, if the 18 compute unit rumor is true. I wonder if the highest end Kaveri chip will have a similar setup.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
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I'd have been more excited about 8GB of GDDR5 if it was paired with a GPU that had the power to make use of it.
 

ZipSpeed

Golden Member
Aug 13, 2007
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Anyone know what this 1.84 teraflop GPU would be equivalent to in the PC world?
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
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Anyone know what this 1.84 teraflop GPU would be equivalent to in the PC world?

Theoretically, it's between the Radeon HD 7850 (1761.28 GFLOPS) and the 7870 (2560 GFLOPS). Which fits right in with the 18 Compute Unit rumor, falling between the 7850's 16 Compute Units and the 7870's 20 Compute Units. In practice, the PS4 should be able to squeeze more out of those theoretical FLOPs than a PC graphics card can.

I'd have been more excited about 8GB of GDDR5 if it was paired with a GPU that had the power to make use of it.

Indeed, we might get a situation flipped from the last generation -- a GPU with more memory size and bandwidth than it can take advantage of, instead of a GPU without enough memory size and bandwidth to be used to its fullest extent.
 
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Centauri

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2002
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I really wonder exactly how much the PS4 is going to mean to AMD's quarterly revenue and bottom line.
 

zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
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According to russian
1.84 Tflops over 176GB/sec memory bandwidth implies a GPU that's very similar to the HD7970M. You have 1152 Stream Processors @ 800mhz, 32 ROPs, 80 TMUs, 256-bit bus @ 5500mhz GDDR5.

I'm actually quite impressed with the specs of the PS4. Even though the GPU is only mid-range it is perfectly capable of playing demanding games at 1080p and that is without the kind of optimization consoles receive. With GPU releases slowing down we might not be as held back as it was with the current gen consoles.

Graphics improvement have been slowing down lately as well (in terms of perceivable difference). It took more than 5 years to go from crysis 1 to crysis 3 level of graphics and crysis 1 even now is a beautiful game. My guess is that this would be the same for the next gen of consoles wherein even if their graphics is not the best from day 1 but 5 years from now their graphics would probably be still be perfectly ok; not the very best but not really that much behind in comparison to PC
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
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I'd have been more excited about 8GB of GDDR5 if it was paired with a GPU that had the power to make use of it.

It's shared with the CPU so not all of it will be used by the GPU anyway.

I wonder why the went with a single die? logic tells me that is rather problematic in terms of yield? I guess it probably is a HD7870 with 2 Compute Units disabled for increasing yield.

Only concern is single-threaded CPU performance. Something like Starcraft 2 would suck on this. ARM little.big thingy would have been nice. 1 fat core for the main processing thread and everything else on little cores or GPU part of the APU.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
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I really wonder exactly how much the PS4 is going to mean to AMD's quarterly revenue and bottom line.

Probably not a great deal, they had to make an amazing offer to lock both up. So they're going for dev relations, and mass marketing over pure revenue most likely.


Something like Starcraft 2 would suck on this.

SC2 is poorly coded, AMD is trying very hard to push moar cores and this is a huge step forward. Crysis 3 shows AMD has a uarch that can compete with Intels offerings in situations like this, they just need people to move forward from DX9 and dual cores, and the best way to do that imo, is to get into the bottomline market (consoles). This will basically force coders to code for 8+ cores before porting to PC, +1 AMD thanks!
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
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I doubt they're gonna go with a CPU with yield issues on one of the beat selling consoles in history.
 

Tommy1983

Junior Member
Mar 24, 2012
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Is intel still the way to go for a cpu? Im thinking about getting a new cpu (3570k) but hearing things like this really holds me back. Amd could be a good choice but it doesnt get great performance in my favorite game starcraft 2. It seems im just in a bad period of buying a cpu with the haswell around the corner and the incoming next gen consoles :(
 

Centauri

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2002
1,655
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Is intel still the way to go for a cpu? Im thinking about getting a new cpu (3570k) but hearing things like this really holds me back. Amd could be a good choice but it doesnt get great performance in my favorite game starcraft 2. It seems im just in a bad period of buying a cpu with the haswell around the corner and the incoming next gen consoles :(

If StarCraft II is your unit of measure, then you can buy basically anything you want right now. I play SC2 at 1080p with nearly every setting on max and my average frame rate is over 30 FPS.
 

Tommy1983

Junior Member
Mar 24, 2012
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It depends alot wich game mode you play. 4vs4 can get very heavy for your cpu and there are also alot of custom games wich require alot of power. Starcraft 2 is my main favorite game but i also like other games like bf3. I just need a good allround cpu that keeps me happy for years. Just like my old phenom 2 x4 945 did.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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Have they discussed their plans to deal with piracy ? As it stands today you can easily pirate games for both consoles. They can't be happy about that. A simple firmware flash on either and you are good to go.

Somehow I am expecting to see some new level of really nasty DRM in this and the new xbox.
 

Centauri

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2002
1,655
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It depends alot wich game mode you play. 4vs4 can get very heavy for your cpu and there are also alot of custom games wich require alot of power. Starcraft 2 is my main favorite game but i also like other games like bf3. I just need a good allround cpu that keeps me happy for years. Just like my old phenom 2 x4 945 did.

4v4 is all I play.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
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It depends alot wich game mode you play. 4vs4 can get very heavy for your cpu and there are also alot of custom games wich require alot of power. Starcraft 2 is my main favorite game but i also like other games like bf3. I just need a good allround cpu that keeps me happy for years. Just like my old phenom 2 x4 945 did.

StarCraftII.png
 

Tommy1983

Junior Member
Mar 24, 2012
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Well i know the 2500k and the 3570k perform really good with starcraft 2 but my concern is will the 3570k be future proof if this multithreading thing comes so importend with new games.

Would buying a i7 make me more future proof? Would hyper threading help if future games going support more cores? Sorry for the stupid qustions but i wanna be sure before i make a desicion.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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Well i know the 2500k and the 3570k perform really good with starcraft 2 but my concern is will the 3570k be future proof if this multithreading thing comes so importend with new games.

Would buying a i7 make me more future proof? Would hyper threading help if future games going support more cores? Sorry for the stupid qustions but i wanna be sure before i make a desicion.

I'd say yes. Take a look at this comparison between a Sandy Bridge Pentium and i3 running Battlefield 3:

bf3-99th.gif


Basically the same CPU, but the Pentium just doesn't have enough threads to handle a modern multi-threaded engine. This trend is likely to continue, so an 8-thread CPU should last longer than a 4 thread one.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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I must say I am abit baffled.

It really looks like a half discount console. But with a pricetag of 429 and 529$.

8GB Memory is good, the somewhat HD7850 card is acceptable. But on the weak side when looking on previous releases.

The 8 weak Jaguar cores I see as an outright disaster. I had hoped for atleast 4 or 8 PD based cores.

Online gaming for all old games. Massive DRM, including the force of realname usage.

No console design was shown. It was basicly a 2 hour snooze fest. That might take paperlaunch to a whole new level.

And the only 4K is the ability to play 4K movies. But even IGPs can do that today.

But I can see alot of PS4 games being played on cheap PCs. Unless they will require online always.

I do however think consoles are done for. And the Wii U leads the demise.

npd_console_sales_january_2013_preliminary.png
 
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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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Can't believe people are discussing Starcraft 2 on consoles. Does anyone play Starcraft II with a joystick? (and to be totally frank, why on earth play 4v4s.. it's a cheese/hack-fest as you know. I've never played anything other than 1v1s)

You will not see Starcraft 2 on PS/XBox. RTS games will remain on PCs for the foreseeable future.