Digital Camera Opinions

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AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: foghorn67
On lens IS is better. Expensive yes, but it comes handy on longer focal lengths compared to sensor based IS.

I have to call BS on this one, since it's always touted by Canon and Nikon to justify their stabilization choice. While in-lens IS might be superior for longer focal lengths, it's always preferable to use a tripod on longer focal lengths, which negates the need for stabilization of any sort. You don't need it for studio work either for the same reason, but most people are going to need stabilization when they are walking around, probably using focal lengths maybe from 18-200 and possibily up to 300. In-body IS makes a strong showing there, as I think the in-lens advantage only starts in the mid-200s (can't remember). My walk around lenses are 28-75, 28-105, and 70-210.

Further, having stabilization on a fast prime makes for the ultimate low ambient light system. Remember that EVERY LENS that fits your camera becomes stabilized. Just taking cost into account, there's no comparison. To have every focal length and every lens IS or VR would cost a fortune, even assuming that they made every lens with IS or VR, which they don't!

It's also been suggested that in-lens stabilization makes the lenses less reliable in the long run plus also locks you into the state of the art when you bought the lens -- if you change bodies every few years but always keep the same glass, you are constantly renewing the stabilization system for in-body IS but keeping the same one with in-lens. Moving parts=less reliability. So, if you change the body, you can continually get the latest stabilization technology, but you'd have to change the lens to do the same with Canon or Nikon.
The other thing too. I found some great aftermarket batteries for my Canon for 12 bucks each. Nikon users will say the same. Does Sterlingtek make Pentax batteries? The optional grip for the Pentax K10d doesn't take AA's like the Canon or Nikons do. That concerns me a little.

Pentax's lastest camera uses the exact same battery as the Maxxum 5D/7D and the A1/A2 prosumer cameras from KM. There is a well established OEM market for this battery (NP-400), and it makes people like me, a 7D owner, happy to know that the batteries will be available for several more years!

I've always wondered about the AA thing. While it's nice to have the option in a pinch, I always keep two batteries fully charged and have never run out of juice. I'd be more likely to pop the AAs into the flash unit than the camera. :)

Plug in support for camera/sensor specific RAW processing, noise reduction, lens correction is geared towards Nikon/Canon.

THE standard, Adobe RAW (along with Photoshop), supports every camera with regular upgrades. I've not noticed any bias to Canikon when using Photoshop CS2 as it doesn't really care where your JPEG or RAW file came from. I believe Adobe is part of the Open RAW initiative, pushing an open RAW format, partially as a result of Canon and Nikon (among others, but they are the biggest, as you say) attempting to maintain tight control over their formats with proprietary file types. Hopefully the future will not have any other formats besides JPEG (or its successor, whatever that might be) and RAW.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Go to www.FredMiranda.com and register on their forums. They've got a terrific Buy/Sell section. If you really want value, I would go used.

Canon Rebel XT: $500 or lower shipped
Canon 20D: $750 shipped
Nikon D50: $475 shipped, not as easily found
Tamron 17-50mm: $419 shipped in either Nikon or Canon mount

2GB Sandisk Ultra II CompactFlash: $55 shipped
Sterlingtek Battery: $10-15 shipped
Wired remote shutter release: $10-15 shipped

You can even sometimes find a decent deal in the Anandtech FS/FT forums. ;)

 

Evilhomer99

Member
Aug 28, 2006
96
0
0
Well thanks for all the responses, I can see there are some opinions on these cameras. But I guess I cant really go wrong as an ametuer getting a reputable brand.............
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: AndrewR
It seems you've been attacked by the Canon rabble, but keep an open mind. Here are your choices.

So what? You're the voice of reason and logic and you're completely unbiased in this debate? Give me a break. I've never attacked anyone here for suggesting Nikon, in fact, I've always been very supportive of those who've bought or suggested Nikon gear. I think Nikon and Canon are the only real, decent choices in DSLR. Obviously I'm going to recommend Canon but I'll freely admit that Nikon is also an excellent choice. Those are really the only two I'd consider though.

Well that's a pretty dumb opinion.
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Another vote for Canon here. Of all the brands, I'd take Canon first, then Nikon, then others starting in a distant third. Why? The lens and accessory offerings from both are excellent, as well as third party gear for both - and in both cases, this has been the reality for more than a decade.

The Pentax camera might be sweet - havent even looked. When buying my gear, I traded in a base level (film) Minolta SLR and 3 lenses for it, and took a huge hit. The lenses were no good without a camera, and Minolta didn't (and still doesn't) offer anything that compares to my D300. I'd be afraid of the same thing happening with Pentax.
 

pkme2

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2005
3,896
0
0
In the past, I used Canon, Leica and Minolta. They were excellent for photo taking, but the one camera that I really liked was the Leica M3. I couldn't afford the Leica lenses so I substituted the Canons because they were very affordable.

My point is that my students don't have a lot of money so buying a Canon EOS body and getting Canon lenses really made a difference for them.
Nikon is an excellent brand, but it take bucks to outfit yourself with Nikon.

My recommendation is to get the Canon EF 24-85mm Zoom for your first lens.
Wide angle to Portrait. http://www.adorama.com/CA2485U.html
You can get some great deals here if you don't mind refurbished or used.
http://www.adorama.com/Catalog.tpl?page=il_refine_search
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
My point is that my students don't have a lot of money so buying a Canon EOS body and getting Canon lenses really made a difference for them.
Nikon is an excellent brand, but it take bucks to outfit yourself with Nikon.
I couldn't disagree more. I find that Nikon has much more affordable glass, especially for those on a budget.

A used Nikon 80-200mm F/2.8 can be found for <$500, whereas the Canon equivalent goes for double.

And Canon currently doesn't have a better value for a walk-around lens than Nikon's 18-200mm VRII. If and when they do, it'll probably retail somewhere north of $1200.
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Plug in support for camera/sensor specific RAW processing, noise reduction, lens correction is geared towards Nikon/Canon.

THE standard, Adobe RAW (along with Photoshop), supports every camera with regular upgrades. I've not noticed any bias to Canikon when using Photoshop CS2 as it doesn't really care where your JPEG or RAW file came from. I believe Adobe is part of the Open RAW initiative, pushing an open RAW format, partially as a result of Canon and Nikon (among others, but they are the biggest, as you say) attempting to maintain tight control over their formats with proprietary file types. Hopefully the future will not have any other formats besides JPEG (or its successor, whatever that might be) and RAW.

The K10D can store RAW files as either .pef or Adobe DNG:)
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,574
972
126
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: AndrewR
It seems you've been attacked by the Canon rabble, but keep an open mind. Here are your choices.

So what? You're the voice of reason and logic and you're completely unbiased in this debate? Give me a break. I've never attacked anyone here for suggesting Nikon, in fact, I've always been very supportive of those who've bought or suggested Nikon gear. I think Nikon and Canon are the only real, decent choices in DSLR. Obviously I'm going to recommend Canon but I'll freely admit that Nikon is also an excellent choice. Those are really the only two I'd consider though.

Well that's a pretty dumb opinion.

Coming from someone who has added precisely squat to this thread...:roll:
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: DLeRium
If I'm looking into a Rebel XT, what's a good lens to start with?

What kind of photography and what's your budget?

Walkaround: Tamron 17-50mm

Wideangle: Sigma 10-20mm, Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 10-22mm (expensive)

Macro: Sigma 105mm, Sigma 150mm, Tamron 90mm, Canon 100mm (expensive), Canon 60mm, extension tubes, reverse mount adapters

Moderate Telephoto: Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm f4/L

High Telephoto: Sigma 50-500mm, Sigma 170-500mm, Canon 100-400mm (expensive)

Primes: Canon 50mm f/1.8 ($50), Sigma 30mm f/1.4, Canon 50mm f/1.4, many others
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: AndrewR
It seems you've been attacked by the Canon rabble, but keep an open mind. Here are your choices.

So what? You're the voice of reason and logic and you're completely unbiased in this debate? Give me a break. I've never attacked anyone here for suggesting Nikon, in fact, I've always been very supportive of those who've bought or suggested Nikon gear. I think Nikon and Canon are the only real, decent choices in DSLR. Obviously I'm going to recommend Canon but I'll freely admit that Nikon is also an excellent choice. Those are really the only two I'd consider though.

Well that's a pretty dumb opinion.

Coming from someone who has added precisely zero to this thread...:roll:

I totally agree with you, Jules.

Cannon and Nikon ARE the two main contenders for the Pro/Am D-SLR market. They have more models, more accessories and more community interest than any other brand. I'm not saying that Pentax (or Kodak or Olympus or any other brand) doesn't have a good competing product, Cannon and Nikon just have more.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/stats.asp

 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Also OP, if you are looking for lenses, don't discount Tamron lenses. Many people poo-poo them because they're cheap. I currently have 70-220 AF Tamron that, IMHO, produces a better image than the 28-120 Nikor lens I have.
 

pkme2

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2005
3,896
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
My point is that my students don't have a lot of money so buying a Canon EOS body and getting Canon lenses really made a difference for them.
Nikon is an excellent brand, but it take bucks to outfit yourself with Nikon.
I couldn't disagree more. I find that Nikon has much more affordable glass, especially for those on a budget.

A used Nikon 80-200mm F/2.8 can be found for <$500, whereas the Canon equivalent goes for double.

And Canon currently doesn't have a better value for a walk-around lens than Nikon's 18-200mm VRII. If and when they do, it'll probably retail somewhere north of $1200.


Nikon 24-85mm
Canon 24-85mm

I'm a little confused, but I checked some prices for both cameras and I find prices on new lenses was affordable for Canon and higher for Nikon. There are really good used lenses and I still recommend them too.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: rivan
Another vote for Canon here. Of all the brands, I'd take Canon first, then Nikon, then others starting in a distant third. Why? The lens and accessory offerings from both are excellent, as well as third party gear for both - and in both cases, this has been the reality for more than a decade.

The Pentax camera might be sweet - havent even looked. When buying my gear, I traded in a base level (film) Minolta SLR and 3 lenses for it, and took a huge hit. The lenses were no good without a camera, and Minolta didn't (and still doesn't) offer anything that compares to my D300. I'd be afraid of the same thing happening with Pentax.

The Maxxum 7D beats anything Canon puts out below the 5D except for perhaps the 30D simply because that's newer technology. I almost bought the 20D until I saw that there's no spot metering, which was a stupid decision on Canon's part. Minolta is now Sony, and their first entry received Popular Photography's Camera of the Year award -- I guess it's a piece of crap though. ;)

I have a question for everyone: Sure, Canon and Nikon have larger lens choices, but how much does it REALLY matter? How many lenses do you own (that are Canon/Nikon branded!), and how many do you lack?

Right now, I have about 10 lenses (two are coming in the mail), and I have serious duplication, particularly on the low end. All told, when I consolidate and eliminate the redundancy, I can get away with 4 zooms (wide, mid-range, longer, and fast 28-75) and a couple primes with possibly a long zoom like the Bigma (50-500 from Sigma) as an interesting plaything. How many people need tilt/shift lenses? Who needs (or can afford) super-fast primes like the 85 f/1.2L? What I'm getting it is that I hear people recommending Canon and Nikon for their vast lens choices, yet I rarely see anyone AVAIL themselves of the vast lens choices, typically opting for particular ones like the 50mm f/1.8, a 70-200mm, and something reaching 300mm.

I can understand the rationale, but I wonder about its actual usefulness in making buying decisions. How many people here have exotic lenses (ie., very expensive and/or rare)?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: pkme2
Originally posted by: jpeyton
My point is that my students don't have a lot of money so buying a Canon EOS body and getting Canon lenses really made a difference for them.
Nikon is an excellent brand, but it take bucks to outfit yourself with Nikon.
I couldn't disagree more. I find that Nikon has much more affordable glass, especially for those on a budget.

A used Nikon 80-200mm F/2.8 can be found for <$500, whereas the Canon equivalent goes for double.

And Canon currently doesn't have a better value for a walk-around lens than Nikon's 18-200mm VRII. If and when they do, it'll probably retail somewhere north of $1200.


Nikon 24-85mm
Canon 24-85mm

I'm a little confused, but I checked some prices for both cameras and I find prices on new lenses was affordable for Canon and higher for Nikon. There are really good used lenses and I still recommend them too.

The Nikon you listed is F2.8. The comparable Nikon lens is $310 just like your Canon.

And 24-85mm isn't my choice for a good walk-around lens for D-SLRs with a crop factor. I'd rather use a good 18-70mm.