Different perspective on P&N

[Train]

I was out of town and without internet access for over 2 weeks, I caught very little of the news, as I didn't see much of any TV either. While I was gone I was still very much a debater, I engaged in several deep and thought provoking political discussions, with both hard core liberals, hard core conservatives, and everyone in between. These debates were all face to face, sometimes 1 on 1 and sometimes with as many as 10 people participating. The debates never got out of control, partly becuase we were all face to face, usually eating together, also everyone had working relationships. Even when arguing with someone who had an extreme opposite view compared to mine, the arguments were always very civil, and we kept incorrect facts, rumors and stereotypes out of them.

Upon returning to P&N, at first I just lurked for a day or two. And I was in shock of what I saw. At first I thought things had gotten a lot nastier since I left, thinking maybe a huge flamewar broke out or something, but then realized they were the same, I had just been to intermixed in all the debates to realize how messed up this forum was a few weeks ago. And I was feeling so good after the productive discussions of the previous weeks, I guess coming back here was just a serious downer. I'm half tempted to swear off this forum for good, as I realize that internet debates are useless. At least these days that is, perhaps years from now internet conversations may have the same civility as face to face. Internet communication can benifit greatly from the ability to have people from all over the world participate in the same discussion, but that benifit is currently washed out by all the negatives that are present, which IMO, is pretty sad.

We have a technology that has never been available through thousands of years of politics, and we are wasting it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Train

Internet communication can benifit greatly from the ability to have people from all over the world participate in the same discussion, but that benifit is currently washed out by all the negatives that are present, which IMO, is pretty sad.

We have a technology that has never been available through thousands of years of politics, and we are wasting it.

Hang in there. It could be worse. I am the subject (mostly on the receiving end of personal flames as you call them) of much of the bashing but still feel there is worth while discussion.

Through the muck many have attested, witnessed and admitted that there has been a marked shift of position in here. When this thing first kicked off there hardly any dissention whatsoever against the current Regime. It is very clear that has changed dramitically and the shoe is now on the other foot.

So despite what may look ugly, there has been change and that says a lot right there.

Once there is actually a Regime change come this January that will be the ultimate confirmation of what took place in here. It would truly be "Mission Accomplished" .

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Train
We have a technology that has never been available through thousands of years of politics, and we are wasting it.

I know, but it's all the fault of those damn, dirty Rich Elitist Neocons!





Welcome back, I suppose...


Edit: Darn, dmcowen674 got in before me, and DID NOT use the word 'neocon' at all! Perhaps these is hope, after all. (although, he did portray himself as the innocent victim of unwarranted personal flames, so maybe hope is a bit premature..)

 

[Orsorum]

This place has become a pit. There was an energy to it in its first few years (good god, have I been here that long?!), and there were (and occasionally still are) some awesome debates. But by and large it's a cesspool of partisan trolling and name-calling. I avoid it unless I really feel like being irritable for the rest of the day.

 

[Train]

ya but he used "Regime Change" when my post was pretty bipartisan, IMO, and it just ruined my whole thread.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Train
ya but he used "Regime Change" when my post was pretty bipartisan, IMO, and it just ruined my whole thread.

:thumbsup:

 

[Czar]

I think it has gone alot down in the past few months but I do say that every few months and I'm still here. I dont post much though, just read the flames and the occasional interesting discussion.

and welcome back

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Train
ya but he used "Regime Change" when my post was pretty bipartisan, IMO, and it just ruined my whole thread.

He's good at ruining threads. And he wonders why he gets flamed.

The internet pretty much is a cesspool, but ther are a few gems floating around with the rest of the contents Just have to sift through chaff...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Train
ya but he used "Regime Change" when my post was pretty bipartisan, IMO, and it just ruined my whole thread.

Oh come on, that's the primary crux of Politics. Have some backbone for Pete's sake.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Train

Edit: Darn, dmcowen674 got in before me, and DID NOT use the word 'neocon' at all! Perhaps these is hope, after all. (although, he did portray himself as the innocent victim of unwarranted personal flames, so maybe hope is a bit premature..)

"dmcowen674 DID NOT use the word 'neocon' at all! "

Thank you for noticing.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
This place has become a pit. There was an energy to it in its first few years (good god, have I been here that long?!), and there were (and occasionally still are) some awesome debates. But by and large it's a cesspool of partisan trolling and name-calling. I avoid it unless I really feel like being irritable for the rest of the day.

Please, we're 80 days from Election Day with what most people concede as the most they have ever seen the Country divided.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
This place has become a pit. There was an energy to it in its first few years (good god, have I been here that long?!), and there were (and occasionally still are) some awesome debates. But by and large it's a cesspool of partisan trolling and name-calling. I avoid it unless I really feel like being irritable for the rest of the day.

I don't disagree with you. This place tends to be dominated by the loudest and shrillest voices, which is a shame. I think this is at least partially a function of the very sharp divide between the modern iterations of the Republican and Democratic parties, but it's too bad this place sinks into mean-spirited name-calling with such regularity.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

"dmcowen674 DID NOT use the word 'neocon' at all! "

Thank you for noticing.

:thumbsup:

 

[Darkhawk28]

Train, you have no idea what's out there..... LOL. This is a bastion of goodness and well-being compared to where I've been.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Train
ya but he used "Regime Change" when my post was pretty bipartisan, IMO, and it just ruined my whole thread.

He's good at ruining threads. And he wonders why he gets flamed.

I wouldn't exactly call it "ruining" when there has clearly been a shift in here.

I gladly accept the "flames" as a concession for what it takes to affect "change". :thumbsup:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Train, you have no idea what's out there..... LOL. This is a bastion of goodness and well-being compared to where I've been.

True, Train, look for the thread that somebody posted about a really brutal Political Forum site compared to this one, it was posted a couple of days ago.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Train
We have a technology that has never been available through thousands of years of politics, and we are wasting it.

There are many Anandtech members who'd love to have a civil discussion about politics. However, most refuse to even click on the P&N link - me included until the last few days. This was moved out of Off Topic for a reason - just to get the insults away from most posters.

So many of us would like to join it if others wouldn't ruin it. But alas, it is an impossible dream. Very few people have logical reasoning let alone proof of their logic before posting. Until that happens, every post will be a flame war.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dullard
There are many Anandtech members who'd love to have a civil discussion about politics. However, most refuse to even click on the P&N link - me included until the last few days. This was moved out of Off Topic for a reason - just to get the insults away from most posters.

So many of us would like to join it if others wouldn't ruin it. But alas, it is an impossible dream. Very few people have logical reasoning let alone proof of their logic before posting. Until that happens, every post will be a flame war.

I dunno about all that. I've been in OT for a bit. Of course there are fewer flames there. How can anyone be 'passionate' about topics such as:

"anyone know what this car sticker is?"
"Anyone on DVORAK keyboard format?"
"so, how do pawn shops work? "

??

P&N actually discusses some issues that 'matter' to a large group of people. Naturally, there will be heated discussions with such a large cast with opposing views.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I dunno about all that.

Well so far a poll shows 60% of the first 23 voters in Off Topic would like to come here but don't. So that at least is partial proof of my opinion.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I dunno about all that.

Well so far a poll shows 60% of the first 23 voters in Off Topic would like to come here but don't. So that at least is partial proof of my opinion.

That's OK, if they don't have the stomach for it they should stay away. Obvious Politics is not for them.

I used to be one of those until I was personally attacked by Politicians so the little digs the Radical P&Nr's do is nothing in comparison.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I dunno about all that.

Well so far a poll shows 60% of the first 23 voters in Off Topic would like to come here but don't. So that at least is partial proof of my opinion.

That's OK, if they don't have the stomach for it they should stay away. Obvious Politics is not for them.

I used to be one of those until I was personally attacked by Politicians so the little digs the Radical P&Nr's do is nothing in comparison.

Did a bunch of Rich Elitist Neocons jump out of an unmarked van and attack you in a dark alley? If so, I am truly sorry, but at least this explains a few of your posts. ;-)

I kid, I kid. I agree that you can't survive or enjoy this area if you are thin-skinned. I see a few new people jump in here every once in a while, then when they get their ass handed to them by someone who knows what they are talking about, and can back it up with facts, they either leave, never to return, or just panic and start lashing out spastically. If a way, you kinda feel sorry for them, like a spider trying to get out of a toilet. But in the end, you just have to flush.

 

[Thump553]

You have to remember where you are-the anonymous internet. Actually I think P&N here is one of the most civil of it's type around, and I certainly don't see it as declining. Sure, there are ranters and slogan-yelling people here, but there always has been.

P&N started expressly because a few select members constantly strident arguments were ruining OT for most of us. The worst of those have since been banned or moved on.

The strident, inflexible posters are not too persuasive to most normal folk anyways.

But I still would not reccommend a diet of 100% P&N.

 

[Gand1]

CkGunslinger,


Dave has a very nice link in his profile and you will see he was more than just attacked. I know I don't have to defend him, I know you were kidding, and he can take care of himself. But do look at his web page, it's and eye opener!!!!

Okayyy... Dave where did it go!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Orsorum
This place has become a pit. There was an energy to it in its first few years (good god, have I been here that long?!), and there were (and occasionally still are) some awesome debates. But by and large it's a cesspool of partisan trolling and name-calling. I avoid it unless I really feel like being irritable for the rest of the day.

Please, we're 80 days from Election Day with what most people concede as the most they have ever seen the Country divided.

That's just because they never took history in school (or weren't paying attention). I'd say the country was a lot more divided between 1861-65, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Mursilis]

And in response to Train's original post, I'm reminded this Satre quote:

Hell is other people.