Difference btw "high" and "low" quality CDRs

[ugh]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone knows the difference btw the high quality (or branded) CDRs compared to the lower quality (not so branded {g}) CDRs. Has the quality got anything to do with the type of element used to create the CD itself?

TIA.

 

[Goosemaster]

I've noticed that with the "down and dirty" brands, the reflective coating on top or basically whatever the material on top is, starts to peel rather quickly...

All the brand-name ones are flawlesss...Great when you can get substantial rebates on them

 

[HendrixFan]

After losing data I had backed up onto cheap-o CD-Rs, I always use good quality blanks now. Like Goosemaster said, the disc itself physically comes apart, very easily I have found. Certainly not reliable and not worth its (cheap) price.

 

[ugh]

Thanks for the info guys. So it's the reflective coating after all

 

[Chang10is]

Originally posted by: ugh
Thanks for the info guys. So it's the reflective coating after all

Yeah, I was quite surprised at how easily the top layer can come off a cheap CD. In the past 2 months, I've tossed at least 5 CDs that came from a 50 pack that I bought a few years ago because the edges were flaking. I know why there were so cheap now.

Another problem that can come from cheap CD-R's is write-errors at top recording speeds. I read an article on CNet last year that reported the results of their tests of about 5 different brands of CD-R's and their performance at different recording speeds. They were all 24x media (remember, this was a year ago), and all the brands did fine at 12x, but at 24x the Sony brand (you wouldn't have expected it, would you?) had more errors than what they deemed acceptable. Every other brand they tested was fine, even CompUSA's discs. I don't remember what the other brands were (they were all big brands though; CompUSA was the exception), unfortunately, but I just remembered to avoid Sony's. Maybe they've fixed whatever problem they were having last year though.

 

[Sunner]

My experience has been that good CD-R's also tend to work better in more picky players, such as many car stereos, etc.
Also, it seems to take alot more scratches to ruin them, I have an old Diablo 1 CD at home, it's a Traxdata, the CDR is from 93 or 94, or thereabouts, it's hardly reflective at all anymore, being so badly scratched, but it still works, while I've had some nonames that could hardly take anything before getting unreadable.

IMO it's not worth it going cheapo, CD's are so cheap, what are you gonna save? 20 cents per disc? Wohoo, at 100 disks that comes to $20, or rounded down, nothing

 

[jrichrds]

Another problem that can come from cheap CD-R's is write-errors at top recording speeds. I read an article on CNet last year that reported the results of their tests of about 5 different brands of CD-R's and their performance at different recording speeds. They were all 24x media (remember, this was a year ago), and all the brands did fine at 12x, but at 24x the Sony brand (you wouldn't have expected it, would you?) had more errors than what they deemed acceptable. Every other brand they tested was fine, even CompUSA's discs. I don't remember what the other brands were (they were all big brands though; CompUSA was the exception), unfortunately, but I just remembered to avoid Sony's. Maybe they've fixed whatever problem they were having last year though.

That's interesting. Sony CD-Rs are made by Taiyo Yuden, and everyone always raves about Taiyo Yuden's quality. I wonder what all the TY fanatics would say about this.

My take on this is that as long as you buy name brand CD-Rs, there isn't much of a quality difference these days between "Made in Taiwan" CMC discs and "Made in Japan" Taiyo Yuden discs. All the Taiwanese-made Imation, TDK, Philips, Verbatim, etc. discs have solid topcoats.

Why do so many people rave about TY discs?
1. Made in Japan
2. Cheapo manufacturers don't go to Japan if they're after lowest cost possible.
3. Maybe they used one of those cheapo, no-name CD-Rs and got burned.

As for me, i've used TY and CMC alike, stuck with name brand discs with good topcoats, and can not make any claim that my TYs are better than my CMCs.

 

[jrichrds]

Originally posted by: Sunner
My experience has been that good CD-R's also tend to work better in more picky players, such as many car stereos, etc.

On the flipside, there was a guy desperately searching for Princo CD-Rs (Made in Taiwan, no Taiyo Yuden lover would touch these discs) because those were the only ones that would play in his car audio system. By the way, the Jensen brand at Circuit city is made by Princo.

IMO it's not worth it going cheapo, CD's are so cheap, what are you gonna save? 20 cents per disc? Wohoo, at 100 disks that comes to $20, or rounded down, nothing

With the highest quality Made in Japan Taiyo Yuden discs going for almost free after rebate for a 50-pack spindle, I'd say it IS worth it to go cheapo. I got 100 Fuji discs in the past couple weeks for $5 after rebate.

As for the longevity issue, as long as it lasts 10 years, it's all good. By then, the quality of DVD media will have leveled like it has with CD-R media, and I'll be able to cram a bunch of CD-Rs onto one free-after-rebate DVD-R.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: jrichrds

Originally posted by: Sunner
My experience has been that good CD-R's also tend to work better in more picky players, such as many car stereos, etc.

On the flipside, there was a guy desperately searching for Princo CD-Rs (Made in Taiwan, no Taiyo Yuden lover would touch these discs) because those were the only ones that would play in his car audio system. By the way, the Jensen brand at Circuit city is made by Princo.

IMO it's not worth it going cheapo, CD's are so cheap, what are you gonna save? 20 cents per disc? Wohoo, at 100 disks that comes to $20, or rounded down, nothing

With the highest quality Made in Japan Taiyo Yuden discs going for almost free after rebate for a 50-pack spindle, I'd say it IS worth it to go cheapo. I got 100 Fuji discs in the past couple weeks for $5 after rebate.

As for the longevity issue, as long as it lasts 10 years, it's all good. By then, the quality of DVD media will have leveled like it has with CD-R media, and I'll be able to cram a bunch of CD-Rs onto one free-after-rebate DVD-R.

Ok, nitpicking aside, I meant it isn't worth it going with noname CD's that may or may not be crap, just cause they're cheap, happy now?

 

[Kwad Guy]

Since most everyone uses the same dye formulation these days, the difference
really comes down to the mechanical aspects of the disc:

1) Better discs have a protective coating on the non-data side of the CD.
Really cheap discs have a simple minimal coating on the non-data side
that can easily be damaged.

2) Better discs come from plants with better quality control. In really cheap
disc packs, it is not uncommon to find discs with ripples in the surface and
things like that.

3) Better discs are properly laminated. Cheap discs may or may not be.
Case in point: The cheap generic 100 pack bundles CompUSA was
selling for a while contain discs that have a tendency to absorb moisture.
I have had MANY of these discs develop moisture (water) pockets between
the polycarbonate and the reflective layer when they were exposed to
a change in the humidity (e.g. when taking them outside on a humid day,
then putting them into the player in an air-conditioned car, or just taking
them outside (even when covered) when it's raining. Once these pockets
develop, you might as well throw them away.

Kwad

 

[Macro2]

Best top coated disks I've ever seen can on a low end brand called "Hi-tech" I got at officemax one time. The top coats is clear, thick and bullet proof and appears many layers. S sometimes you can get top quality for cheap. They also record in my problem recorder where as many brands won't.

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: jrichrds

That's interesting. Sony CD-Rs are made by Taiyo Yuden, and everyone always raves about Taiyo Yuden's quality. I wonder what all the TY fanatics would say about this.

thats not entirely true. i have seen many spindles of made in taiwan from sony. yes, some are the TY's, but nowhere near to being all or even most.

on the other hand, all of fuji's regular 50pack spindles are TY. actually i think all the cds that fuji sells are made in japah (TY)

 

[ugh]

Yeah, I was quite surprised at how easily the top layer can come off a cheap CD. In the past 2 months, I've tossed at least 5 CDs that came from a 50 pack that I bought a few years ago because the edges were flaking. I know why there were so cheap now.

THat's exactly the reason why I posted this question. Thankfully only one of the cheapo CD's top layer came off. I have no idea how it happened as none of the rest of the cheapo CDs top layer came off.

Another problem that can come from cheap CD-R's is write-errors at top recording speeds. I read an article on CNet last year that reported the results of their tests of about 5 different brands of CD-R's and their performance at different recording speeds. They were all 24x media (remember, this was a year ago), and all the brands did fine at 12x, but at 24x the Sony brand (you wouldn't have expected it, would you?) had more errors than what they deemed acceptable. Every other brand they tested was fine, even CompUSA's discs. I don't remember what the other brands were (they were all big brands though; CompUSA was the exception), unfortunately, but I just remembered to avoid Sony's. Maybe they've fixed whatever problem they were having last year though.

Now that's new. I've actually quite a lot of Sony CDR and CDRWs. They're selling like 2-3x more expensive than normal (cheapo) CDs. What would be a good brand in your opinion?

 

[ugh]

My take on this is that as long as you buy name brand CD-Rs, there isn't much of a quality difference these days between "Made in Taiwan" CMC discs and "Made in Japan" Taiyo Yuden discs. All the Taiwanese-made Imation, TDK, Philips, Verbatim, etc. discs have solid topcoats.

Verbatim is Made In Taiwan? Gee.. Didn't know that!

BTW, have you guys seen those black CDRs (looks exactly like original PlayStation game CDs) from Imation? They're really cool...

 

[TheWart]

another reason i get fuji TYs for important data is that they can go at the speed of a current burner even if they were made for a slower one.

 

[Jeff7]

The only discs I've ever had that started to peel were some Memorex CD-RW discs; all others haven't ever peeled.
Pacific Digital discs were crap - they couldn't accept more than about 50-100MB of data before the writing utility reported errors.

 

[jrichrds]

Verbatim is Made In Taiwan? Gee.. Didn't know that!

Not all of them. The ones I saw at Sam's Club were definitely CMC Magnetics (made in Taiwan) spindles.

another reason i get fuji TYs for important data is that they can go at the speed of a current burner even if they were made for a slower one.

This isn't exclusive to TY. From my experience in popping in various older CD-R blanks into my Lite-On 40x burner for speed-check, many non-TY discs can do the same, if not better. I think my 4x TYs could do 16x, which isn't bad.