Didn't know where else to turn, so i'll ask you guys

[Lithium381]

I see the graph, and it's going up logarithmicly/exponentially because of interest(third highest cost per annum) suggestions?
I think we need to stop handing out free money on welfare(while some need it, some DO NOT), and force people to not be lazy and sit on their @$$es and collect.
We need to stop spending money overseas and fix out own d*mn problems. We need stricter punishments, and while i don't direclty support the death pentalty, we need to stop keeping people in prison just sinking our budget, maybe force them to ride a bike hooked up to generator or SOMETHING usefull......i honestly want to hear your suggestions, what reform could we do?

 

[desy]

Wow
Are you sure you want to wade into P&N with those crazy hypothesises?
Here we go
Welfare cheats make up a small percentage yes its annoying but you aren't going to save billions/trillions fixing it.
It actually costs way more to sentance to somebody to death because of due process, to put a needle in somebody as a last resort eats up a huge amount of court time.

 

[Lithium381]

I just don't understand how each (legal)(and accounted for) American citizen owes 30k on behalf of the government(if we devided it out) Where does all this money go?! I'm not saying death penalty as an option, but make the inmates do something somewhat useful...As for welfare, you say it's only a small part, and VERY annoying because it promotes abuse, if it were to be reformed(somehow?) it would cut down some, and even a little bit, with the current rate we're paying interest........helps out.
btw, love your sig

 

[Genx87]

I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

 

[BigDH01]

As said above, welfare abuse really doesn't cost that much. In addition, if you look up the benefits that TANF actually distributes you will see that it isn't that much. Besides, you can only get 60 months now. If you want to stop the deficit you will have to raise taxes, especially taxes on unearned income. The tax on unearned incomes such as profit on dividends is 15% for the highest brackets. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, not a tax expert. In theory, someone who does nothing but own stock and lives off the dividends (without actually working a day) pays a lower income tax rate than a factory worker that works for that person. I'm sorry, but if you really want to bring balance back into the budget, the rich and the corporations will have to pay more. I think people forget that in the 1950's the top brackets paid up to >90% in income tax.

If you want to decrease amount spent in prisons then perhaps we should not send so many people to prison. We have the highest incarceration rate (per capita) of any nation. We even surpassed Russia. We incarcerate people at a rate 5-8x higher than most other Western nations. http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/pub9036.pdf
This is a real problem. We should legalize and tax pot. That would be a good start.

Another thing we might want to do is cut military spending.
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm
As you can see we spend a GREAT deal of money on the military. I guess this is necessary if we're gonna keep invading foreign nations, but then we must realize that taxes will have to be raised to pay for this. Perhaps, they should be raised most for those companies who stand to benefit from war. Since the beginning of our WoT, Halliburton stock has gone up 900%. Who benefits? Cheney (former CEO of Halliburton) made a hair over 200 grand from the government and, yet, had a gross income of 8.8 million. Two hundred thousand came from deferred income from Halliburton. The bulk of the Cheney's income came from stock options granted by Halliburton (did I mention their stock is up 900%?). I see a conflict of interest here. Needless to say, taxes will not be raised for the rich, as they are far too connected to the federal government. Not just to blame this administration, I don't think either party has your (our) best interests at heart.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

And greedy oil-barons exploiting citizens and a corrupt administration spending trillions of dollars / thousands of lives on a lie doesn't?

 

[Engineer]

*shrugs*

Deficits don't matter*



*footnote: as long as your economy grows quicker than the debt (has only done so during one period since 1980). Of course, this doesn't take into account the "so called massive" liabilities of the future given to the very people who ran the country up to the point of this massive deficit: BABY BOOMING GENERATION.

 

[rchiu]

simple....vote those people who don't have a clue what fiscal responsibility is out of the capital hill.

Everything starting from the president, the office of buget, the congress that pass legislation to authorize funds to be spent, the entire process and who submits/votes what is open to the public. And the last time I check, the public votes these people into the office.

And by the way, stop talking about welfare this, military spending that. It doesn't matter what programs is out there. As long as the policy makers don't have the idea of balancing spending with revenue, you will always have deficit.

So the solution is simple and as a voter, you have the control. Vote people who has fisical responsibility into the office and vote those don't out.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: rchiu
simple....vote those people who don't have a clue what fiscal responsibility is out of the capital hill.

Everything starting from the president, the office of buget, the congress that pass legislation to authorize funds to be spent, the entire process and who submits/votes what is open to the public. And the last time I check, the public votes these people into the office.

And by the way, stop talking about welfare this, military spending that. It doesn't matter what programs is out there. As long as the policy makers don't have the idea of balancing spending with revenue, you will always have deficit.

So the solution is simple and as a voter, you have the control. Vote people who has fisical responsibility into the office and vote those don't out.

And who are those people? The GOP is supposed to be known for smaller, less intrusive government and lower spending (while giving tax cuts). Both parties spend like hell with the GOP giving tax cuts which have driven the deficit further, but argue that it's made up later via increased revenues and trickle down.

Who is fiscially conservative? Really?

I'm not sure it really matters who you put in office. They all have a big ole open checkbook that's running on credit card checks.

 

[zephyrprime]

I highly recommend you read the white house's budget papers:
fun

I would say that you have a common layman's perception that we spend a large amount of money on welfare and on prisons (that is, the free riders and the dregs of society). In fact, the federal government actually spends only a small portion of our budget on these things. The biggest outlay is for social security and then defence. In recent years, defense elipses ss. Medicare is #3 on the list. Welfare spending is less than what it used to be because welfare reform was passed in the 90s. Of course, with our corrupt federal reserve system, it's not even possible to have money without government debt so the debt can never be repaid.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
I highly recommend you read the white house's budget papers:
fun

I would say that you have a common layman's perception that we spend a large amount of money on welfare and on prisons (that is, the free riders and the dregs of society). In fact, the federal government actually spends only a small portion of our budget on these things. The biggest outlay is for social security and then defence. In recent years, defense elipses ss. Medicare is #3 on the list. Welfare spending is less than what it used to be because welfare reform was passed in the 90s. Of course, with our corrupt federal reserve system, it's not even possible to have money without government debt so the debt can never be repaid.

And SS is actually a money maker (150 plus billion in surplus compared to payout's last year). No politician is going to touch SS until it goes into the red as they need the revenues, regardless of future obligations.

 

[sandmanwake]

Deficit doesn't matter because future generation will be paying the bills for what is spent today. The ones who did the spending will never have to worry about it.

 

[desy]

I also understand that as the baby boomers die the state rakes it in on estate taxes so once the boomers start to die
Cha Ching

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

Sure, but just cutting off the welfare isn't going to help the situation. What would be a better solution is shifting "free money" systems into education and job training assistance programs. In the long run, that would be a better and cheaper solution than either the system we have today, or the rather cold-hearted approach of letting them starve.

Of course the fact that it's "long term" makes it pretty certain nobody would ever support it.

 

[nergee]

Originally posted by: sandmanwake
Deficit doesn't matter because future generation will be paying the bills for what is spent today. The ones who did the spending will never have to worry about it.

No they won't as long as what Engineer says about the economy growing at least
as fast as the debt.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: Genx87
I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

And greedy oil-barons exploiting citizens and a corrupt administration spending trillions of dollars / thousands of lives on a lie doesn't?

Wow nice red herring /clap

Just 2Xtreme for me!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Genx87
I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

Sure, but just cutting off the welfare isn't going to help the situation. What would be a better solution is shifting "free money" systems into education and job training assistance programs. In the long run, that would be a better and cheaper solution than either the system we have today, or the rather cold-hearted approach of letting them starve.

Of course the fact that it's "long term" makes it pretty certain nobody would ever support it.

I agree but good luck convincing the masses who are now hooked into the system. If you impelement such a system and shift the money into job assistence or retraining programs you have the activists out there yapping their mouths about how we are starving people to death in this country.

 

[extra]

Unfortunately, the real solutions to this won't make many people happy ( But at some point, we have to face up to the facts of the deficit.

Now, obviously the government CAN NOT ever actually go bankrupt. They can always just print more money. (yeah yeah I know, it's sort of private, but ignore that for this). However, obviously this would probably destroy the economy

Deficits *aren't necessarily even bad*. For example, we owe a lot of the debt to the american people. So if the government had debt that equaled out to 10k for everyone in america, but also the money was borrowed from the American people...We wouldn't really have a problem. (or the problem would be MUCH less so).

The problem is that in this administration's (I hate bush, but i'm not going to bring him into this, just saying the facts) era, the deficit is going crazy. And the new debt is being held overseas. This is a huge problem. Eventually, it will end up screwing us over unless we do something meaningful about it NOW.

THe good news is paying off the whole deficit isn't really necessary. If the deficit was cut down to 1 or 2 trillion, we'd be in *GREAT* shape and it would be no problem at all.

To pay off the deficit, first they need to repeal the tax cuts. Then they need to think about dramatically closing tax loopholes, and perhaps raising taxes in some instances. DRASTIC spending cuts need to take place. Sorry, but the prescription drug benefit has to go. Socialized medicine would actually save us money, but I digress. Assuming that couldn't happen, medicair and medicaid would need a few changes. First and foremost, the ability to negogiate with drug manufacturers. I would also give the government the ability to make ALL THE DRUGS THEMSELVES and pay no licensing fees. Sorry, corporations be damned, but medical stuff is such a huge chunk of the federal budget that it is necessary to drastically drop the costs, at least until we can get some of the debt paid off. You won't have a market if the country's debt grows too much larger. Most likely, any legislation being talked about that included this would panic them into selling stuff cheaper anyway.

This would be temporary, until the national debt was paid down to reasonable levels.

Funding for the arts, corporate and private welfare to some extent, and government subsidies of all kinds of crap need to go temporarily. Military spending needs to take a huge temporary cut. This includes funding for all that crap you like. Sorry. The solution isn't easy or pleasant.

Drugs, prostitution, need to be legalized and taxed. Voluntary tax revenues such as this should be ENCOURAGED whether you friggin approve of them or think you are going to hell for engaging in them. I don't really care either way. They would eliminate a *HUGE* underground cash flow, move it up into legality, and tax it. HUGE *i mean HUGE* areas of construction, financing, etc, would also move into the light and be taxable. This would do some more. But it wouldn't be popular.

Lastly, tough policies need to be taken with things like the value of China's currency.

The debt could be paid down to reasonable levels (remember, eliminating it is not necessary)... Then, a constitutional amendment could be passed requiring the budget be balanced over, say, a 16 year span. (this would allow for recession/boom cycles).

 

[sandmanwake]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Genx87
I like the bike hooked into a generator idea lol

I agree the amount of "cheats" on the welfare system is probsbly minimal. However the generations of enslaved people to the state who have little to no hope of getting out of the system and thus end up relying on the state for everything costs this country dearly.

Sure, but just cutting off the welfare isn't going to help the situation. What would be a better solution is shifting "free money" systems into education and job training assistance programs. In the long run, that would be a better and cheaper solution than either the system we have today, or the rather cold-hearted approach of letting them starve.

Of course the fact that it's "long term" makes it pretty certain nobody would ever support it.

I agree but good luck convincing the masses who are now hooked into the system. If you impelement such a system and shift the money into job assistence or retraining programs you have the activists out there yapping their mouths about how we are starving people to death in this country.

Bread and circuses! We want bread and circuses!!! It is our rights as citizens.

 

[extra]

Yeah, I know people are usually on one side or the other of the whole welfare (corporate, private, whatever) issue.. However, in my opinion, the constitution does provide for the government to provide some welfare-type things to the citizenry to increase the standard of living of the bottom quintile(s). However, unfortunately, this can NOT be allowed to over-ride the sanity of the ENTIRE U.S. economy!!!

I'm all for helping out the poor as much as we can. I'm not (usually, if ever) for bailing out corporations. But none of my personal views matter.

Helping out the poor, helping out the suffering, helping people go to school. None of can be allowed to keep the ENTIRE COUNTRY from getting f'd over from the deficit getting insanely large. People. Poor, rich, middle class. Large and small corporations. Need to accept a few compromises to get the debt back down to manageable levels, and to get it to being held internally instead of externally. Sad, tragic, and unpopular sacrifices will need to be made. Unfortunately, no one will have the will to make them. Instead, they will come later, as even more sad and tragic disasters later. It is like watching a train on a collision course with a wall. The wall is hundreds of miles away, and days down the line. The engineer does not want to use the brakes and disturb the cargo and passingers. Unfortunately, eventually he is going to get so close to that wall that he is either going to run into it or hitting the brakes is going to make all his cargo and passengers hit the walls in their cars.

 

[Lemon law]

I propose the following.

1. Suspend penion payments to all past members of congress, the judicury, and the executive in all years that the Federal Treasury
is in defecit.Cut all congressional and executive salaries by a factor of four during those same defecit years.

2. Pass a law that no congressman can run for reelection if they have served more than two years during a time of defecit spending.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: rchiu
simple....vote those people who don't have a clue what fiscal responsibility is out of the capital hill.

Everything starting from the president, the office of buget, the congress that pass legislation to authorize funds to be spent, the entire process and who submits/votes what is open to the public. And the last time I check, the public votes these people into the office.

And by the way, stop talking about welfare this, military spending that. It doesn't matter what programs is out there. As long as the policy makers don't have the idea of balancing spending with revenue, you will always have deficit.

So the solution is simple and as a voter, you have the control. Vote people who has fisical responsibility into the office and vote those don't out.

And who are those people? The GOP is supposed to be known for smaller, less intrusive government and lower spending (while giving tax cuts). Both parties spend like hell with the GOP giving tax cuts which have driven the deficit further, but argue that it's made up later via increased revenues and trickle down.

Who is fiscially conservative? Really?

I'm not sure it really matters who you put in office. They all have a big ole open checkbook that's running on credit card checks.

Heh, just keep voting those big spender out. I know politicians are not too bright, but eventually they will get the message.

And there are people who actually promote fiscal responsibility. Clinton was one, John McCain seems to be like one. Both Republican and Democrates that are in the far left or right suck. Look for people who are somewhere in the middle.

 

[Lithium381]

Originally posted by: extra
Unfortunately, the real solutions to this won't make many people happy ( But at some point, we have to face up to the facts of the deficit.

Now, obviously the government CAN NOT ever actually go bankrupt. They can always just print more money. (yeah yeah I know, it's sort of private, but ignore that for this). However, obviously this would probably destroy the economy

Deficits *aren't necessarily even bad*. For example, we owe a lot of the debt to the american people. So if the government had debt that equaled out to 10k for everyone in america, but also the money was borrowed from the American people...We wouldn't really have a problem. (or the problem would be MUCH less so).

The problem is that in this administration's (I hate bush, but i'm not going to bring him into this, just saying the facts) era, the deficit is going crazy. And the new debt is being held overseas. This is a huge problem. Eventually, it will end up screwing us over unless we do something meaningful about it NOW.

THe good news is paying off the whole deficit isn't really necessary. If the deficit was cut down to 1 or 2 trillion, we'd be in *GREAT* shape and it would be no problem at all.

Ithink we're at 8 trillion right now, and the interest is out of hand


To pay off the deficit, first they need to repeal the tax cuts. Then they need to think about dramatically closing tax loopholes, and perhaps raising taxes in some instances. DRASTIC spending cuts need to take place. Sorry, but the prescription drug benefit has to go. Socialized medicine would actually save us money, but I digress. Assuming that couldn't happen, medicair and medicaid would need a few changes. First and foremost, the ability to negogiate with drug manufacturers. I would also give the government the ability to make ALL THE DRUGS THEMSELVES and pay no licensing fees. Sorry, corporations be damned, but medical stuff is such a huge chunk of the federal budget that it is necessary to drastically drop the costs, at least until we can get some of the debt paid off. You won't have a market if the country's debt grows too much larger. Most likely, any legislation being talked about that included this would panic them into selling stuff cheaper anyway.

This would be temporary, until the national debt was paid down to reasonable levels.

Funding for the arts, corporate and private welfare to some extent, and government subsidies of all kinds of crap need to go temporarily. Military spending needs to take a huge temporary cut. This includes funding for all that crap you like. Sorry. The solution isn't easy or pleasant.

Drugs, prostitution, need to be legalized and taxed. Voluntary tax revenues such as this should be ENCOURAGED whether you friggin approve of them or think you are going to hell for engaging in them. I don't really care either way. They would eliminate a *HUGE* underground cash flow, move it up into legality, and tax it. HUGE *i mean HUGE* areas of construction, financing, etc, would also move into the light and be taxable. This would do some more. But it wouldn't be popular.

Lastly, tough policies need to be taken with things like the value of China's currency.

The debt could be paid down to reasonable levels (remember, eliminating it is not necessary)... Then, a constitutional amendment could be passed requiring the budget be balanced over, say, a 16 year span. (this would allow for recession/boom cycles).

About the drugs and such, very true, as people spend money freely when it's not theirs, and this is why medical expenses are so high(sorry kind of tangent) but if everyone were to be held accountable(i consider this impossible, as it's difficult to hold ANYONE to any sort of responsibility here in America..sad as it is) we would be able to get a handle on it. Tax Cuts all around need to be stopped, and i'm actually all for raising taxes, for a short term. Problem is polititicians would see "more money" and think "spend more" instead of trying to balance....like you said, elminating it isn't necessary, but getting it down to a managable level is.

 

[Dissipate]

We need to stop paying taxes. That's the only thing that will get the attention of Congress.

 

[Jaskalas]

Shrink government, is that such an impossible concept?