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cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: NJDevil
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, I always look back on those cool pictures of President Roosevelt storming the beaches in Normandy, rifle in hand. And that one of Lincoln bayonetting that southern slave-owner always makes me proud. :roll:

Wow, another comparison of this bs war to WWII and Civil War. How original. :roll:

I think he's making the point that the "if you support the war, go enlist" argument are stupid at best.

I was for the war in 03 but am now against it, but anytime anyone uses that argument, it reminds me why the democrats lost the election in 04'. Stupid arguments like this don't help anyone, and they don't even make sense. You support the army by paying taxes, or sending care packages, as not everyone is fit enough to serve.

To expect all those who support a war effort to join is just plain ridiculous, so please stop using that argument, which often makes normal anti-war people look bad.

I'm sick and tired of being associated with the "Bush lied people died" and "serve if you support the war." Try using real arguments (which are often overlooked in these debates).

If you make a good argument, then follow it up with something stupid, then whoever responds will obviously focus on the stupid statement instead of the well thought out argument. (Just a hint for those of you who are smart enough to post a good argument but silly enough to follow it up with rubbish)

If only your view would spread! :thumbsup:

Rational, logically-thinking moderates who can see the validity in both sides of an argument have no place in P&N, unfortunately. (I've seen extremists here claim as such.)

Few threads spark lots of debate when members post reasonable opinions and thought. I am just as guilty of harping on small, seemingly irrelevant misquotes or flame-baiting statements that results in dozens of back-n-forth posts as anyone else in here. I'd love to see things cleaned up in P&N, but it would be absolutely dead in here if that ever happens.
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
1,607
0
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: NJDevil
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, I always look back on those cool pictures of President Roosevelt storming the beaches in Normandy, rifle in hand. And that one of Lincoln bayonetting that southern slave-owner always makes me proud. :roll:

Wow, another comparison of this bs war to WWII and Civil War. How original. :roll:

I think he's making the point that the "if you support the war, go enlist" argument are stupid at best.

I was for the war in 03 but am now against it, but anytime anyone uses that argument, it reminds me why the democrats lost the election in 04'. Stupid arguments like this don't help anyone, and they don't even make sense. You support the army by paying taxes, or sending care packages, as not everyone is fit enough to serve.

To expect all those who support a war effort to join is just plain ridiculous, so please stop using that argument, which often makes normal anti-war people look bad.

I'm sick and tired of being associated with the "Bush lied people died" and "serve if you support the war." Try using real arguments (which are often overlooked in these debates).

If you make a good argument, then follow it up with something stupid, then whoever responds will obviously focus on the stupid statement instead of the well thought out argument. (Just a hint for those of you who are smart enough to post a good argument but silly enough to follow it up with rubbish)

If only your view would spread! :thumbsup:

Rational, logically-thinking moderates who can see the validity in both sides of an argument have no place in P&N, unfortunately. (I've seen extremists here claim as such.)

Few threads spark lots of debate when members post reasonable opinions and thought. I am just as guilty of harping on small, seemingly irrelevant misquotes or flame-baiting statements that results in dozens of back-n-forth posts as anyone else in here. I'd love to see things cleaned up in P&N, but it would be absolutely dead in here if that ever happens.

Maybe, the sensational arguement would dissappear, but we could instead actually debate in a rational matter the pros and cons of real legislation and policy. But, you're probably right. Still, it'd be nice to see the moderates have a little more influence over the discussion.
 

NJDevil

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
952
0
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: NJDevil
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, I always look back on those cool pictures of President Roosevelt storming the beaches in Normandy, rifle in hand. And that one of Lincoln bayonetting that southern slave-owner always makes me proud. :roll:

Wow, another comparison of this bs war to WWII and Civil War. How original. :roll:

I think he's making the point that the "if you support the war, go enlist" argument are stupid at best.

I was for the war in 03 but am now against it, but anytime anyone uses that argument, it reminds me why the democrats lost the election in 04'. Stupid arguments like this don't help anyone, and they don't even make sense. You support the army by paying taxes, or sending care packages, as not everyone is fit enough to serve.

To expect all those who support a war effort to join is just plain ridiculous, so please stop using that argument, which often makes normal anti-war people look bad.

I'm sick and tired of being associated with the "Bush lied people died" and "serve if you support the war." Try using real arguments (which are often overlooked in these debates).

If you make a good argument, then follow it up with something stupid, then whoever responds will obviously focus on the stupid statement instead of the well thought out argument. (Just a hint for those of you who are smart enough to post a good argument but silly enough to follow it up with rubbish)

If only your view would spread! :thumbsup:

Rational, logically-thinking moderates who can see the validity in both sides of an argument have no place in P&N, unfortunately. (I've seen extremists here claim as such.)

Few threads spark lots of debate when members post reasonable opinions and thought. I am just as guilty of harping on small, seemingly irrelevant misquotes or flame-baiting statements that results in dozens of back-n-forth posts as anyone else in here. I'd love to see things cleaned up in P&N, but it would be absolutely dead in here if that ever happens.

Interesting point. I don't think it would be dead, but you'd have all those threads by people like Rip and dwcowen (the sensationalist threads, not the more rational ones) empty. That's a good thing in my book.

I see what you're saying though, and it would certainly get a lot quieter in here if only rational arguments were posted. When you have people like Zendari saying gays are mentally ill, then you are bound to have psychoticly absurd threads.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: umbrella39
I don't see what the big deal is with young republicans enlisting or not? When I was 18 one of the first things I did that day was enlist. Had I known there was a good chance that I would be shipped to Iraq after basic and die, I probably never would have enlisted. Period. I don't blame them for being chickenhawks and I don't blame them for supporting a war that they, themselves, would never in a million years fight in themselves.

Basic human nature and cover your own ass mentality. It is comical to watch them spin and squirm and justify why they don't. When an honest response would be, hey, I just don't want to die at age "xx" especially packed down with a hundred pounds of gear sitting in 120 degree shade in Iraq.

Nice back-handed complement there. Or was it a sophisticated insult?

It started out as a back-handed compliment then segued into an insult. :thumbsup: for your perceptiveness. Honestly though, while I am sure that some have good reasons, what it boils down to is they don't want to go nor should they have to serve. That is why it is a volunteer army. But please entertain this thought for a second: there is a big difference between supporting the war and cheerleading like some here do. Agree? I only take issue with the cheerleaders blowing rhetoric out of their megaphones.



 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: umbrella39
I don't see what the big deal is with young republicans enlisting or not? When I was 18 one of the first things I did that day was enlist. Had I known there was a good chance that I would be shipped to Iraq after basic and die, I probably never would have enlisted. Period. I don't blame them for being chickenhawks and I don't blame them for supporting a war that they, themselves, would never in a million years fight in themselves.

Basic human nature and cover your own ass mentality. It is comical to watch them spin and squirm and justify why they don't. When an honest response would be, hey, I just don't want to die at age "xx" especially packed down with a hundred pounds of gear sitting in 120 degree shade in Iraq.

Nice back-handed complement there. Or was it a sophisticated insult?

It started out as a back-handed compliment then segued into an insult. :thumbsup: for your perceptiveness. Honestly though, while I am sure that some have good reasons, what it boils down to is they don't want to go nor should they have to serve. That is why it is a volunteer army. But please entertain this thought for a second: there is a big difference between supporting the war and cheerleading like some here do. Agree? I only take issue with the cheerleaders blowing rhetoric out of their megaphones.
Certainly, as long as you entertain the notion that these 'cheerleaders,' while certainly vocal, are in the minority and do not represent the whole of any political idealogy.

Without listing names, I can't think of more than a small handful posting here, just as there are only a very few dyed-in-the-wool anti-American posters. You have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 

preCRT

Platinum Member
Apr 12, 2000
2,340
123
106
Did I hear what I wanted? Bush's secret plan to end the war we didn't want or need...


Let's see...Our purpose is not to occupy the areas. Once enemy forces are driven out of these sanctuaries and once their military supplies are destroyed, we will withdraw.

A majority of the American people, a majority of you listening to me, are for the withdrawal of our forces... The action I have taken tonight is indispensable for the continuing success of that withdrawal program. A majority of the American people want to end this war rather than to have it drag on interminably. The action I have taken tonight will serve that purpose. A majority of the American people want to keep the casualties of our brave men... at an absolute minimum. The action I take tonight is essential if we are to accomplish that goal.

We take this action not for the purpose of expanding the war...but for the purpose of ending the war... and winning the just peace we all desire. We have made - we will continue to make every possible effort to end this war through negotiation at the conference table rather than through more fighting on the battlefield.

Tonight, I again warn the... that if they continue to escalate the fighting when the United States is withdrawing its forces, I shall meet my responsibility as Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces to take the action I consider necessary to defend the security of our American men...

But if the enemy response... continues to be to increase its attacks and humiliate and defeat us, we shall react accordingly. My fellow Americans, we live in an age of anarchy, both abroad and at home. We see mindless attacks on all the great institutions which have been created by free civilizations in the last 500 years. Even here in the United States, great universities are being systematically destroyed. Small nations all over the world find themselves under attack from within and from without.

If, when the chips are down, the world's most powerful nation, the United States of America, acts like a pitiful, helpless giant, the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy will threaten free nations and free institutions throughout the world.

It is not our power but our will and character that is being tested tonight. The question all Americans must ask and answer tonight is this: Does the richest and strongest nation in the history of the world have the character to meet a direct challenge by a group which rejects every effort to win a just peace, ignores our warning, tramples on solemn agreements, violates the neutrality of an unarmed people, and uses our prisoners as hostages?

If we fail to meet this challenge, all other nations will be on notice that despite its overwhelming power the United States, when a real crisis comes, will be found wanting.

During my campaign for the Presidency, I pledged to bring Americans home... They are coming home.

I promised to end this war. I shall keep that promise.

I realize that in this war there art honest and deep differences in this country about whether we should have become involved. that there are differences as to how the war should have been conducted. But the decision I announce tonight transcends those differences.

For the lives of American men are involved. The opportunity for 150,000 Americans to come home in the next 12 months is involved. The future of 18 million people in... and 7 million people in... is involved...

It is customary to conclude a speech from the White House by asking support for the President of the United States. Tonight, I depart from that precedent. What I ask is far more important. I ask for your support for our brave men... fighting tonight halfway around the world - not for territory - not for glory but so that their younger brothers and their sons anti your sons can have a chance to grow up in a world of peace and freedom and justice.




So Bush/Nixon is gonna bring our troops home after he finally defeats the Viet Cong? :thumbsdown:
 

Sysbuilder05

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I didn't see Chelsea in Bosnia.

Did you point that out when Clinton was president?

Did the military embark on the most aggressive recruiting campaign since the last time you had a draft, fuelling rampant speculation that one might actually be instated, when Clinton was president?


Uhh,why NO they didn't. Umm just for your info Bosnia was a NATO effort,not just a fu**king Cowboy invading another country for Oil. Quick,without doing a Google on NATO,what does it stand for?
 

Sysbuilder05

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I didn't see Chelsea in Bosnia.

Did you point that out when Clinton was president?

I don't see you signing up either .. yet you want to send other peoples children off to die

Last I checked we had a volunteer army.


So when are you going to volunteer??
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I didn't see Chelsea in Bosnia.

Did you point that out when Clinton was president?

I don't see you signing up either .. yet you want to send other peoples children off to die

Last I checked we had a volunteer army.


So when are you going to volunteer??

Never...the warmongering RW on P&N have a FAR more important job behind the keyboard...keeping the world safe from those pesky communist, anti-American terrorist "liberuls" (ie the 55-60% of the country that disapproves of you-know-who).

After all, this place (and the world) simply wouldn't be the same without their Bush butt-kissing ;)