Did you discover god on your own,...

[UG]

Did I discover atheism for myself?

Well, I didn't find god when as a child I was told that god exists and people were trying to show me where to find it. And while still a child I became skeptical of their claims that a god exists. So, yes. I discovered atheism on my own, and while everyone around me was trying to aid my discovery of the contrary.

I belong to no organized group of atheists, especially as a subscribing member. I attend no meetings of such a group, either regularly or irregularly. I subscribe to no atheist publication published for the purpose of making me a better atheist.

[edit]Mine[/edit] is a personal relationship with atheism.

 

[IamDavid]

"God Is Faith God Is Love.Hence God Is everywere.["


So God was in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, the killing fields in Cambodia, in Okinawa and Hiroshima in WWII, and is now Africa watching his children starve to death and die of Aids? Nice GOD...

 

[Isla]

<< So God was in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, the killing fields in Cambodia, in Okinawa and Hiroshima in WWII, and is now Africa watching his children starve to death and die of Aids? Nice GOD... >>



God is in the hearts and hands of the people who risked their lives to help the Jews escape and who give their time, money, and effort to bring relief to those who are suffering.

I don't think it is human nature to be compassionate, to sacrifice, and to give unselfishly.... actually, it is human nature to be just the opposite. I think that those qualities come from 'the angels of our better nature'.

 

[UG]

Isla,

It is human nature to be all or fewer of those things by choice.

 

[apoppin]

UG, I wasn't trying to throw anything back into your face and I believe I DID contribute something useful into this discussion.

It just seems to me that you have &quot;something against&quot; believers. You seem to be - for lack of a better expression on my part - trying to &quot;convert&quot; believers to your own brand of atheism. I realize there is no organized &quot;atheist religions&quot; - but it might be a good idea to hold revivals to affirm non-believers belief in god's non-existance.

Now, I think what you are doing is a good thing as it causes people to reevaluate their beliefs (or at least think about them. I just wanted atheists to think also about their beliefs and question them also.

 

[UG]

Apoppin,

In the last several such threads you've done the same thing. I just thought it might be time for you to re-examine your dependency on that particular conversational tool.

These threads always serve as opportunity for both camps to re-examine and re-evalute their beliefs, or lack thereof. They also are recognizable as places for some to discover what are their actual beliefs, or lack thereof.

Thus the occassional treatment of such threads as battlefields with winable objectives -- the minds of the undecideds.

 

[apoppin]

I am not sure what you are trying to &quot;win&quot;, UG - or why. Is there a personal kind of intellectual &quot;freedom&quot; in atheism that you enjoy that you want to share with others? However, I will reexamine my &quot;dependency&quot; on what you call a conversational tool.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well I don't know what to say to these questions because I do and do not believe in God, and that is very difficult to explain. luv2chill's Rumi quote tells my story. I believed in God but wanted to prove that he exists. I sought him in the texts and philosophies, but always the proof eluded me. I reached the conclusion that life has no meaning at all. I can describe that time as black. I felt utter hopelessness and deep dispair. I knew that I would never be happy. I read some stuff on Zen Buddhism and discovered people who thought the same thing, but were full of joy. This was a deep shock. One night as I lay in bead thinking of all the reasons I could as to why the fact that life is meaningless made me unhappy a blast of wind hit the house. My consiousness snapped from the deepest of introspection to full external awareness. In that split second I was filled with pease. I knew that the fact that life is meaningless is also meaningless. The love we wish to feel is all right there in our own hearts. There may be no God, but the Kingdom of Heaven is within, so it makes no difference either way. And since the bridge that is God helps more to that inner truth than otherwise, I respect those people of faith who are lit with love.

As to UG's question, &quot; If god is a universal quality of Nature, shouldn't god be universally obvious to all individuals and not just those banded together in groups, groups that set themselves up as necessary translators and interpretors of what is god because god isn't obvious enough to be found by an individual without the group's unduplicable abilities?&quot;, the answer is also a little complicated. Our world is sick, upside down to reality. We don't know who we are, especially what we feel. We have all been made to feel bad about ourselves. These feelings are deeply suppressed. We cannot find God because we don't want to feel how bad we feel. God hides under our pain. Did you but suffer you would not suffer.

 

[UG]

<...You seem to be....trying to &quot;convert&quot; believers to your own brand of atheism...>

Introducing people to skepticism is indeed a type of conversion, and indeed I am personally motivated to make the attempt.

I consider it my community responsibility to take an active interest in the health and well-being of others, particularly the needy.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Did you discover god for yourself

I was raised in a home where religion did not have much importance. I was, however, forced to go to Sunday school every Sunday. I enjoyed it and I believed in God, Jesus, etc. Throughout my high school years, I began to question religion in general. There are so many people in the world and I was intrigued about other religions. In college, I took a mythology course. This was the breaking point for me. I realized that religion is just something to help people live out their lives. I have never &quot;discovered&quot; any god.

 

[Azraele]

I have a certain amount of blind faith that a god of some sort exists. What that entails in its entirety I cannot yet say.

 

[guyver01]

<< So God was in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, the killing fields in Cambodia, in Okinawa and Hiroshima in WWII, and is now Africa watching his children starve to death and die of Aids? Nice GOD... >>

now you see why so many people won't believe in god.

 

[TravisBickle]

I believe! I believe!
what was the question?

 

[BoberFett]

I think I'd better step in here with the obligatory

STOP TRYING TO SHOVE YOUR ATHEISM DOWN MY THROAT!!! I THOUGHT THIS COUNTRY HAD FREEDOM OF RELIGION!! YOU'RE STEPPING ALL OVER MY RIGHTS TO NOT HEAR ABOUT ATHEISM!!!



The above is tongue in cheek, for those of you who can't see sarcasm.

 

[BoberFett]

Also, people keep making the common mistake of confusing God and religion. It's silly to claim that because you don't believe in a certain religion, that's proof that God doesn't exist.

Assuming for a moment that God does exist... Religion can't exist without God, but God can exist without religion. That's why the &quot;Everyone is going to hell&quot; argument is silly.

 

[Ornery]

&quot;Why isn't your original idea of what is a god equally valid, if you ever had one?&quot;

How many &quot;original&quot; ideas does anybody really have? All that you've come to know is derived from asking questions, and picking and choosing answers that suit you.

Personally, I think that God is life itself. I think most religions are based on that basic premise.

 

[Moonbeam]

The reason that Truth is hidden, Ornery, in my opinion, is that it is the very last thing anyone would pick or choose as suitable.

 

[~zonker~]

Perhaps God allows suffering to test both the victims and the well. The victims may seek for God in their suffering, the well have an opportunity to display their charity.

Life on this earth is only one step in an eternal life. If you believe in the words of the Bible, dying is a reward.
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As Paul put it...

If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far (PHP 1:22~23)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I discovered God on my own, the seeds were planted in my youth but I never understood the true nature or power of the Spirit until very difficult times in my life. I believe God appears differently to everyone, some don't even recognze Him.

 

[IamDavid]

&quot;I believe God appears differently to everyone, some don't even recognze Him. &quot;

I once had a homeless man try peeing on me while screaming he was our savior.. Does this count?

 

[~zonker~]

If you could see God in that man, I guess it counts...*L*

dosen't match any of my understanding, but, hey... if you say so

 

[brandc]

It seems that discussions about the existence or non-existence of a God usually turn to the nature of God. For me the question of existence or non is seperate from any attributes a God may or may not have, or the tenents of any group of believers.

I rejected the retread God ideas as a youth, then was an Atheist for some time, untill someone points out to me that an atheist is a believer, in that he believes there is no God.

Then Agnosticism set in and dwelt for many a year.

Meanwhile I contemplated the process of believing. It seems that believing, thinking and knowing are all the same thing with maybe different probabilities attached.
Nowadays I do believe (but don't know) there is a God but that belief has no proof and has no basis in thought, i.e. original idea. I perceive a Creator (called God for convenience of communicating) that is the essence of existence.

What I believe I am unable to express. I rationalize it by saying that I can't believe of a universe as immense and complex as ours, from the supernova to subatomic stuff to life itself, could have come into being without a Creator. I believe in God because I can't help it!

 

[Johnlee]

I usta be like UG. Non-believer. My father was an athiest, my mother a non-practicing Catholic.hehe.

There really wasn't that much &quot;forced&quot; religion during my childhood. I grew up an agnostic/athiest I guess.

Awhile back I went through some real sh1tty stuph. Without the aid or &quot;persuasion&quot; of anyone, I &quot;found&quot; God. Of course, he was never lost, but blah blah blah.

btw-I don't try to convert people or even like to talk about my faith much. It's very personal and I do not go to church.

btw2-I always thought that what's his name *that preacher kid who usta come here* was a good guy. I like him.

 

[bobtist]

I was never exposed to the church as a child, and grew up having a sense of pity on all who I believed lacked the mental capability to see through religion's schemes and trust in the existence of any kind of &quot;god.&quot; There was no way anybody could EVER get me to go to church EVER. I detested anything to do with that stuff.

That hard-headed kid learned of the God who loved him when he was a junior in high-school, and trusted God with his life (all by my lonesome) after a good 5 months of deliberation. With all intellectual honesty, it was very much an emotional deal (UG grins) at the time... God's love captured my heart, not just my brain, because that's what God deals in... The rest of reality is just the resultant minutae. The picture of God that was presented to me made very much sense in real life, and everything I've learned since then (church/school/experience of life) has only reinforced it.

Man, I sound like a wacko!!

 

[Raspewtin]

<< How can you have a personal relationship with god when you're using someone else's retread, questionably motivated, shared revelation of what is a god? >>




this is a great thought. My opionion is that you don't know for sure anyone exists, including yourself. It could be that no one else exists besides you, and everyone else is just a puppet from your imagination. Yet you still have relationships with those around you (you referring to no one specific). If someone said to me &quot;your girlfriend may be a figment of your imagination, reinforced by other figments in your mind who have a vested interest in her existence&quot; I would say who cares. It doesn't matter whether she exists or doesn't, since I will never be able to &quot;break the glass&quot; and see from outside my own perception anyway. I have the same approach to God.




<< Buddha isn't &quot;the god of the Buddhists&quot;. He was the founder of Buddhism. Buddhism doesn't have (a) god(s) nor a hell. According to Buddhism, souls are being used again in new Humans >>



there are many forms of Buddhism, and in some forms Buddha is a type of God, same with reincarnation. The form I subscribe to says basically (when it's all boiled down): Shtuff happens -> Shtuff happens b/c of your attitude -> If you change your attitude, no more shtuff -> So change your attitude. Most Buddhist philosphies boil down to this.

 

[UG]

Ornery,

<...Personally, I think that God is life itself...>

With the sentiment I would agree. So why not call life Life and dispense with the personality cult, group-think for the specials?

An atheist is life. What place group-think to presume restrictions on god?


Brandc,

<...I can't believe of a universe as immense and complex as ours, from the supernova to subatomic stuff to life itself, could have come into being without a Creator...>

Yet it's easier to imagine the original cause of the unbelievably complex?

Many misundertand the Second Law of Thermodynamics and argue that simplicity derives from complexity but not the other way around. Certainly, the Creator must be much more complex than its creation.

So, how can the creator be more easily imagined and understood when the creation cannot?