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Did we do a thread on the REAL cause of school killings?

M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
We've got these arguments going about guns and cars and so on with people on all sides of the issue. The first question, it seems to me, is whether we have a violence epidemic, and then, if so, why. It's got to be so that if some means of mass distruction is at hand along with the intention, we're gonna have problems, so where is the violence comming from? Wouldn't that be the important question to answer? The answer might not be so easy though because if it develops that there is something sick in our culture, there will always be forces, economic and other, who will not want things disturbed. So what's causing kids to kill?
 
Bad parents, other kids making fun of them, sometimes just being plain messed up in the head. Guns aren't the cause, they just provide the means. Sure, without them they could still do it, it would just be alot harder for them.
 
school is tough. kids are cruel. i dont know about you but i had a rough time especially through grade 8, i think the majority of girls do and why? because everyday for a new reason someone hates someone else, someone is going to beat on someone etc. The problem you see isnt the people who shoot other kids, it goes back to how the other kids treat that kid. and it must be pretty bad if they are going to shoot others. And it does start with the parents and schools, they have to teach not only tolerance towards others but also respect. too many kids grow up thinking they have to be the same to be cool.

this isnt a new problem, its just that the kids who always fantisized about having guns now have more access to guns now.

and dont tell me that one of you dont remember at least one kid from grade skool that used to be like that, cuz i can name 3 or 4.

*kat. <-- doesnt support anyone owning a gun.
 
Bad parents are having more children.

I would totally agree. Most problems come from the home and are taken to school. With all these shootings, teaching is going to become one of the most dangerous professions.....
 
Partly upbringing, partly genetical.

Violence is a normal part of Human behavior, only when it's too easily stimulated, less pleasant things can happen.
 
I think is the media's fault.

Not that there is too much violence on TV or music or games, its that every school shooting gets a huge amount of time in the news, and people write books about it, and everything else makes some kids feel like the only way they can get attention is a school killing.

 
Maybe the society of advanced thinking beings doesn't progress in a never ending upward slope. What if we've reached the pinacle and we're on our way back down? Look at the cycles throughout history. Maybe this country is in a downward trend.

I find it hard to blame it on guns because they've been around for hundreds of years and &quot;gun control&quot; is a fairly recent idea. Mass production of hand guns has been going on for quite awhile, why have they just started to appear in schools?

 
There's too many things to blame it on. The media has made it popular, so if you're depressed, why commit suicide? Let's go out with a bang! You'll be famous. Bad parents and bad kids. When did everyone become a pussy all of the sudden? What ever happened to fist fights? Don't dare blame it on music or video games. Blame it on yourselves. You're bad parents, you're bad kids, and you're just people blowing something out of proportion.

I wouldnt be suprised if this happened in my school. White suburbian setting, lots of kids of all varieties. It's tough, but don't be a pussy. Stick up for yourself and you'll get the respect you deserve.
 
Guns have been in schools forever. Inner city schools have had gun problems long before Suburbia did. It's not till someone with 'power' actually gave a damn.
 
First off, lets start by pointing out that there is NO 'epidemic' of violence. Statistics clearly show that the rate of violent crime has been steadily dropping for years. The nature of the crimes has changed though. It's not violence we need to work on, it's the root cause that is behind the change in nature of the crimes. 'Traditional' crimes are motivated by greed, hatred, jealousy etc. What we are seeing now is a decrease in the rate of 'traditional' crimes and an increase in the number of violent incidents stemming from a lack of a support structure.

<warning: Non-politically-correct verbage>

There is no simple answer to the problems that are cropping up. It does seem appearent that fewer kids have a solid family structure in place these days -- a mother, a father, grandparents etc. When things don't go as they envisioned in school, there's no safety net there. There are no parents at home when the kids get home -- they don't get enough parental attention. Kids feel more isolated and less able to 'cope'.

Add to that the attitude that we've adopted that religion in public life is a bad thing, that personal responsibility is non-existent (there's always someone else to blame), that divorces are just fine and dandy, that kids don't really need a mother and a father, and you get the results.

We're going to see a whoooooole lot more of this kind of thing before it's all said and done, and no gun control or other kind of law is gonna change it. The deterioration of the family unit is the root cause, we have to go back towards a more traditional family unit before we see any improvement. Doesn't matter if dad works and mom's at home or vice versa - kids need both parents and both roles. We simply can't &quot;skimp&quot; on this -- no matter how politically incorrect that seems.
 
tagej:


I agree completely with that and it's been said many times. Parents need to be in their kids lives, but how do you make that happen?? Can you rightfuly enforce penalties for divorce? What about a &quot;Don't have kids unless you really mean it&quot; law? How do you change an entire country's social values?

*edit mi grammur is sukk 2day*
 
I'm not gonna accept a violent media as a cause. Many, many cultures have more violence in their movies, on their TVs and in all other aspects of their life than the US does, but fewer violent crimes. Japan is a good example. You can't blame it on the music, the video games, or anything else cause that's not the answer. It probably doesn't help, but changing it alone won't do anyone any good.
 
Couples should start thinking (before they have a child):

What can I do for this child, instead of, what can this child do for me.
 


<< The deterioration of the family unit is the root cause, we have to go back towards a more traditional family unit before we see any improvement. >>

Totally, positively correct.
 
Shazam:

Once again, I agree, but how do you do that?!? You can't order people to stay together and raise their children properly.
 
You can't order people to stay together and raise their children properly.

Unfortunately you can't. All you can do is raise awareness.
 
Well, how about this for starters. Lets look at what impact national policies have on our society. For example, every day we hear how the government is gonna provide more funds for daycare, tax credits for daycare blah blah blah. That's basically an incentive to take your kid to daycare (and having both parents work) instead of having a parent or caregiver with the kids at home. How about creating a nice tax credit for people that take care of their kids at home, making it more economically feasible for families to afford having one parent stay at home while the other works??

I'm not blaming single parents, the vast majority do a good job and do the best they can in a tough situation. However, that doesn't mean we need to ENCOURAGE things that will harm our society in the long run.

How about stopping this crazy blame game that we're playing with alcohol, games, music, media, guns, whatever. How about we advocate personal responsibility?? For example, our government itself goes after the tobacco manufacturers for money -- showing us that clearly the smokers are incapable of being responsible for their own actions, let's blame the manufacturer. Thats's the kind of example we set......
 
Please note that I do NOT believe in the metaphysical...

I think it has to do with the fact that there are no real morals anymore. It is all ethics. There is no higher power around to tell us what is right and what is wrong. Post modern thought teaches that there is no Truth. I subscribe to this, but I don't go on killing sprees. When there is no absolute truth to you, then you can do no wrong. Sure, you can hurt, kill, and mame. But did you wrong? Nope.

Even if I am wrong, and there is Truth, it may as well not exist if I do not believe in it. If I see no right or wrong, then my actions will reflect this.
 
it's party the parents fault for not teaching the kids who drive someone to do this respect for others feelings, as well as the individual for not being able to channel their anger somewhere else. some people are just bad eggs, which plays a role as well.

also, i'm not so sure about the whole parents-not-being home idea. both of my parents work, and my dad is frequently out of the country. i am constantly harrassed at school(always have been, but it's progressivly getting worse) and i am not going to go get a gun and shoot someone. i sympathise(sp?) for those poor kids who find that the only way out of their situation is to shoot up the people who caused them so much trouble. i can understand why they'd do it, but i am dissapointed that they weren't able to find another way to deal with this, like i do
 
We've got bad parents, kids making fun of kids, the media, divorce and the deterioration of family life. If it's bad parents than what's going to make them good. If it's disrespect, how do we make people respectful. How do we change the media or stop the deterioration of family life? Are these important goals, more relevant, lets say than tax cuts. Maybe part of the problem is that we are turning a blind eye to the existance of a problem, that it's just too dificult to solve. Bush, just for an example, don't go crazy, recommends morality training and the next day the gun goes off in the hand of a 14 year old girl in Catholic school.

Personally, I think the core of the issue is self respect. Parents don't really have enough of it and can't therefore teach it properly. We have surrounded ourself in a competative atmosphere where personal gain is everything and the welfare of others is secondary. The stress of personal success limited to such a small range of behavior, making money, is probably as much symptomatic as causitive, but we are what we eat, so to speek. I think the nub of the matter is that we have been trained not to like ourselves by being put down and now we put others down to avenge the hurt. This is going to be tough to treat because to get rid of the pain means opening up to it, which we don't sant to do.

The best hope, then, as far as I can see is to begin to preach the importance of self respect and teach how people are made to feel bad, even if we have to teach hypocritically, ie not free of the problem ourselves. It seems to me that if every person were trained from birth that every putdown was the other person's problem, their own sickness, that we are all really OK, it might prevent some of the sh!t from sticking, and gradually allow more and more kids to grow up less hurt and less in need of hurting.
 
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