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Did Robert Bowers Tell a Calculated Lie?

BonzaiDuck

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
There were actually three instances of domestic terrorism in the past few weeks, but the two in our minds are those of the mass-assassination Bomber, and Bowers with his synagogue massacre.

Cesar Sayoc was planning to avoid capture. He wasn't as smart as the Unabomber, so the FBI -- having learned much from the Unabomber investigations and more -- was able to nab Sayoc early.

Robert Bowers didn't expect to avoid capture. He was likely planning to punch out by his own hand. He probably didn't even imagine what he would say to the authorities once captured.

Sayoc is obvious as a Trump supporter. This was a bit hard for Trump to circumnavigate in his own public remarks. Showing Sayoc as a Trump supporter obviously has an impact on the public opinion of group opinions in play -- fence-sitters, remorseful Trump voters and others. It will turn some votes in the election.

Bowers, on the other hand, tells the police that he wasn't a Trump supporter. He has social media posts showing some criticism of Trump. And he further explains to the police that he didn't vote for Trump.

How possible is it that his denial in these regards is not true? Would he have quickly learned from the Sayoc case that he could further damage Trump -- in the aftermath of his massacre and capture?

There are secret ballots, and there are trick questions. Maybe you can identify a Trumpie with a trick question. But do we believe Bowers? Or do we suspect he was more of a Trump supporter than he is willing now to admit?
 
Gonna drop two simple quotes

For months, Robert D. Bowers had been spewing his anger in post after post on the web, calling immigrants “invaders,” distributing racist memes and asserting that Jews were the “enemy of white people.”
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The main problem the United States faces right now is a simple one: violent, white supremacist fascism is on the rise, and it is being supported by the Republican Party.
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Why is no one taking the derail thread troll bait yet...

Has the insidious learning curve finally taken a turn in the right direction?

Proud...
 
There is no way this guy didn't vote for Trump. He just regretted it because Trump didn't turn out to be the full blown Nazi he was hoping for.
 
I don’t think Bowers lied.

Sayoc is representative of the lost souls typically drawn to cult figures like Trump. His targets were a mix tape of Democrats name dropped by Trump at rallies. His van further indicates a degree of fanatical fandom. The Manson family comes to mind.

Bowers aligns to a more troubling emergence of Nazis and the militant far right, which is organizing in the dark corners of social media and is present in Brazil, Italy, Germany, the UK and yes Trumpism as well. These people are not necessarily Trumpers, although they may find useful a candidate like Trump.
 
umbrella39 said:
Why is no one taking the derail thread troll bait yet...

Has the insidious learning curve finally taken a turn in the right direction?

Proud...
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Someone will take it. But some of us have learned that certain people are incapable of being taught. The troll attempting to derail is one of the worst. No amount of proving him wrong has ever reached him, so why try?
 
thraashman said:
Someone will take it. But some of us have learned that certain people are incapable of being taught. The troll attempting to derail is one of the worst. No amount of proving him wrong has ever reached him, so why try?
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Did I say something "wrong?" I just posed a question about Bowers and "Public Opinion." This reference to "thread troll bait" has me confused.
 
I don't think Trump is a anti-semite. BUT..most anti-semites think he is a anti-semite. That's all that matters to them...
 
BonzaiDuck said:
Did I say something "wrong?" I just posed a question about Bowers and "Public Opinion." This reference to "thread troll bait" has me confused.
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I believe it was in reference to tajjy's attempted derailment of the thread (Post #3.) If you have him blocked, understandable why you'd be confused.
 
VRAMdemon said:
I don't think Trump is a anti-semite. BUT..most anti-semites think he is a anti-semite. That's all that matters to them...
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I disagree. I think he is in a non overt way. He doesn't think he is because he views some Jews favorably, and I don't think he openly despises normal Jews, but he clearly views them as a very different separate type of person from how he views himself. Granted he views himself purely above all, and that's true of everyone, but the way he acts enables anti-semitic mentality as it furthers this idea of them being so different and "not like us" that fuels a lot of that mentality. And there's plenty of racists that don't want black people murdered/wiped out, and even really like some, but they have this overriding mentality of them being different that enables the more overt racism. Often push comes to shove though, they'll be more overtly racist themselves (like how they treat black customers differently, etc), and often will justify it various ways (i.e. take a server that assumes the black customers won't tip well, so they provide lower quality of service, leading to the black customers not tipping well).

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Turmp feels personally "in kind" with Jews, as I think he probably thinks he's as maligned as they have been. I could almost guarantee that you could get him to say that the media's claims against him is up there, if not worse than, what the Nazis said about the Jews in order to justify the Holocaust. He has that level of persecution complex and ego.
 
Bowers realizes that his anti-semetic goals are furthered by Trump so he claims he doesn't like Trump. It's a smart plan because he knows conservatives will jump at any chance to blame his actions on others. He can rest easy knowing his white supremacists goals are being served by the white house while he is in prison.
 
FIVR said:
Bowers realizes that his anti-semetic goals are furthered by Trump so he claims he doesn't like Trump. It's a smart plan because he knows conservatives will jump at any chance to blame his actions on others. He can rest easy knowing his white supremacists goals are being served by the white house while he is in prison.
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Well, I was curious about this. Anecdotal "evidence" is always a bit weak. One wants a chronological sample or block sample. So Bowers' denial was a point of interest.

Like I said in another thread, Trump proponents like to argue equivalence. So they raised the case of the Sanders supporter who attacked the GOP baseball game and Steve Scalise. But Sanders didn't use inflammatory rhetoric. The gunman had simply acted on his own perception that the Republicans and Trump were destroying the country.

From time to time here, I'd explained that my own personal anger had led me to explore possibilities of creating "bumper posters" for my car. Now, after Sayoc and his van, I've lost interest. Sayoc had done so well decorating his windows, I couldn't match that. And who needs to have their favorite auto endangered by someone's road-rage?

Nothing to do now except wait for the November 6 results, and hope that the polls aren't counting new registrants, like college students. Maybe we can see some surprises.
 
Large sections of white supremacists renounced trump as 'their guy' after the pro-Israeli decisions and favoritism for Kushner over Bannon, doesn't mean he still isn't a convenient ally for some
 
BonzaiDuck said:
Did I say something "wrong?" I just posed a question about Bowers and "Public Opinion." This reference to "thread troll bait" has me confused.
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You posted the thread, I'm not sure one can really derail their own thread. Meghan54 was absolutely correct about whom the troll is.
 
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