Did Liberals Cause the Housing Crisis?

[Budmantom]

If Vic thinks the Dem's have any responsibility for this crisis you can rest assured that it's the overwhelming majority.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: chess9
Oh, so you know when the Republicans presented a bill in the House or Senate on this issue? LOL. They NEVER even tried!!!! They were on the gravy wagon like everyone else. Most of your Congressmen are sucking at some tit because that's the only way they can afford to get re-elected.

You are desperately grasping at straws, but nice try.

-Robert

Well mccains bills was shot down by the democratic senate...
Not sure of what happened Bush's proposal, but it probably meet a similar fate.

Forget it, he's either on some dangerously misprescribed meds or a troll.

you mean like you?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Now you're just trolling. The only blame I am putting on the Republicans here is for their disinformation propaganda machine. Get back to me when you actually want to address my OP.

Actually I think your op has been well fairly well discussed in the thread and I think it is faily apparentl it is not as clear cut as you are trying to make it out to be. There is still plenty of truth in that propaganda you are complaining about. Blame and credit should be given where it is deserved.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: chess9

Anyway, no one MAKES lenders make a loan. The problem was that lenders were not willing to make loans to qualified blacks who lived in certain zip codes. The practice is called redlining. It's a blunt instrument of economic racism, IMHO.

-Robert

afaik, banks CRA didn't apply to were making those loans anyway. CRA, if it was ever necessary, hasn't been necessary for a long while.

Exactly right, but you won't hear that from the exactly wrong.

Very few loans were made under CRA as a percentage of all loans.



-Robert

Well according to the op, we are talking 25-50% were under cra. I think that is more than very few. CRA was a player.

no, those were loaned made by banks that the cra guidlines applied to. Most of these banks exceeded those totals from my understanding.

People need to stop trying to put blame on any particular party for this, this happened because there was too much investment capital flowing into america, much of which ended up buying debt securities and fueled the boom.

You can say CRA was not a player, but at the end of the day it was one of the MANY things that allowed this mess to happen.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I have not seen any single post by Vic that even resembled putting all the blame on Republicans.

Well, I am getting a wee bit tired of their propaganda machine. Over the years, it's gone from silly and contemptible to over-the-top and dangerous. There is IMO no accountability among Republicans anymore, they're never to blame for anything, and I believe that this attitude begins with Rush, Hannity, et al spreading their lies and filth, and tearing this country apart while waving the flag.

Case in point: in this thread, Republicans tell us that they were raising the alarm bells on the housing crisis. But a couple of weeks ago, Hannity exploded on a guest on his show for the guest saying that there was any crisis in the economy at all AND a good number of the Republicans backed Hannity's comment in the thread created about that incident here Text
My favorite comment in that thread BTW was from daveymark when he said "I'm waiting for those defending him [the guest Hannity blew up on] to back up his claim that our economy is in dire straits." Hello?
While spidey07 asserts that the economy is booming and that the current economic crisis is just a liberal conspiracy to win the election. Yeah, and some people believe Diebold helped Bush win. Whatever.

No accountability.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
If Vic thinks the Dem's have any responsibility for this crisis you can rest assured that it's the overwhelming majority.

What are you spouting here?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison
Senate bill s.190 (The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005) was the senate version of what passed the house. Never made it out of committee for what ever reason.

Because Wall Street hated it. There was a lot of concern that it would have raised interest rates for prime borrowers.
And I repeat, it would not have averted our current crisis. Nor have I seen anyone provide any evidence that it would have beyond rhetoric.

Good bad or indifferent, the republicans at least knew there was a problem. Something you seem unable or unwilling to accept.

Are you serious? I was posting here and elsewhere about the dangers of a housing bubble long before 2005.

I did not say you. But you seem very willing to hang this entire problem on the party that at the very least acknowledged that there was a problem as apposed to the party that had their buried in the sand.

i really haven't seen vic blame republicans much, if at all. This isn't a zero-sum game with x amount of blaming to be spread between R and D, alot of this want unintended or outside the ability of americans to really do anything.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vic

Now you're just trolling. The only blame I am putting on the Republicans here is for their disinformation propaganda machine. Get back to me when you actually want to address my OP.

Actually I think your op has been well fairly well discussed in the thread and I think it is faily apparentl it is not as clear cut as you are trying to make it out to be. There is still plenty of truth in that propaganda you are complaining about. Blame and credit should be given where it is deserved.

And now spin spin spin. I never said this was clear cut nor tried to make it out to be. :roll:

The propaganda I'm complaining about is this.

I'd be more than happy to discuss where the 'plenty of truth' is in that shitpile of lies and BS.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: charrison


You can say CRA was not a player, but at the end of the day it was one of the MANY things that allowed this mess to happen.

based on what facts

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison


You can say CRA was not a player, but at the end of the day it was one of the MANY things that allowed this mess to happen.

based on what facts

Are you saying that CRA wasn't part of the problem?

 

[Insomniator]

The more I read about Acorn and Obama's connection to them, the less plausible I find it to be simple propaganda. One can't say they literally forced banks into lending but I fully believe they put significant pressures on them considering acts like the following:

"Long the director of Chicago ACORN, Talbott is a specialist in ?direct action? - organizers? term for their militant tactics of intimidation and disruption. Perhaps her most famous stunt was leading a group of ACORN protesters breaking into a meeting of the Chicago City Council to push for a ?living wage? law, shouting in defiance as she was arrested for mob action and disorderly conduct."

Now I'm supposed to believe Talbott's pressure campaign involving race and the CRA amongst other things didn't have a real effect on the banks, or perhaps even happen at all?

From what I can tell, at the very least.. Obama's ties with this organization are factual. I feel like if the average person knew about this they wouldn't even consider Obama for President.

anyway I got more reading to do

 

[Mani]

"Liberals caused the crisis" ranks right up there with "Pelosi's partisanship caused the bailout failure" as being among the most idiotic assertions in modern politics.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Mani
"Liberals caused the crisis" ranks right up there with "Pelosi's partisanship caused the bailout failure" as being among the most idiotic assertions in modern politics.

But it works on the American sheeple just like Hannity saying McCain totally dominated and won the debate.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: chess9

Anyway, no one MAKES lenders make a loan. The problem was that lenders were not willing to make loans to qualified blacks who lived in certain zip codes. The practice is called redlining. It's a blunt instrument of economic racism, IMHO.

-Robert

afaik, banks CRA didn't apply to were making those loans anyway. CRA, if it was ever necessary, hasn't been necessary for a long while.

Exactly right, but you won't hear that from the exactly wrong.

Very few loans were made under CRA as a percentage of all loans.



-Robert

Well according to the op, we are talking 25-50% were under cra. I think that is more than very few. CRA was a player.

no, those were loaned made by banks that the cra guidlines applied to. Most of these banks exceeded those totals from my understanding.

People need to stop trying to put blame on any particular party for this, this happened because there was too much investment capital flowing into america, much of which ended up buying debt securities and fueled the boom.

You can say CRA was not a player, but at the end of the day it was one of the MANY things that allowed this mess to happen.

At the end of the day, the middle of the day, or in the morning, partisan Republicans and their spin machines can spout all the drivel they want to spout, but they are going DOWN, baby.... And Congressional Republicans are going down the hardest. Which is why so many of them are retiring to 6 figure lobbying jobs. Your party has run out of creative stupidity. This is a post-Swift Boat era electorate, and the problems caused by your Commander-in-Thief Bush have sunk America, or damned near. I hope all who voted for Bush are proud of their vote for that scum bag.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Oh, please. In 2003, and subsequent years, the bush admin leaned on fannie and freddie to make more "affordable" loans thru demands by their regulatory agency, HUD. The whole "ownership society" was a cornerstone of bush's re-election campaign in 2004. And repubs merely attempted to create plausible deniability with their antics in 2003 and 2005. They were in the majority at the time, and routinely stomped Dems flat over anything they actually cared about. Nobody cared about fannie and freddie except when it came to public outcry about corrupt execs lining their own pockets, certainly not about policy wrt loans.

the bush admin effectively prevented regulators from regulating, even invoked an obscure 1863 statute to hobble state regulators, and repub efforts at deregulation had been extremely effective over the preceding decades- there was little left for regulators to do even if they tried. Investment bankers found new and highly creative ways to leverage mortgages into financial instruments they could claim as assets, achieving dizzying heights of leverage in the process, not to mention what was going on in the OTC derivatives market and hedge funds everywhere. As profits started to peter out, the answer was, obviously, greater leverage thru more exotic investment constructs, until it became the financial equivalent of picking up pennies in front of a steamroller- one misstep, and you're a goner...

That misstep occurred when debtors couldn't pay as their teaser loans rolled over into outright extortion... kinda like nothing down no payments 'til next year furniture loans, except they're for 10X the debtor's income...

Yup. On the money.

-Robert

 

[DealMonkey]

It hardly matters what lies Hannity, Rush and the other AM bloviaters push, because Americans overwhelmingly blame Republicans for the current financial crisis.

The poll, which was released just as the Bush administration heads to Congress to get approval for a $700 billion plan to stabilize the markets, found that 47 percent of registered voters say Republicans are more responsible for the destructive issues tearing down financial institutions and shaking up the markets, compared to only 24 percent of voters blaming the Democrats.

Link

And to add further insult, they predominantly blame the GOP for the failure to pass the rescue bill.

Respondents also mostly blame Republicans for the failure of the plan to win approval Monday -- 44 percent to 21 percent, while 17 percent said both sides are responsible.

Link

I'd say the American people already know who is primarily responsible. Good luck in November, guys.

:laugh:

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
If you want to know the real reason for this international financial crisis, look to the causes of long-term interest rates and therefore home mortgages to drop about 2% in 2001. Alan Greenspan is the one you should pursue, for creating the ideal circumstances for home prices to rise dramatically, and the rest is just "Irrational Exuberance". When there is money to be made, fraud creeps out of the woodwork. But, as a parting gesture, Greenspan wanted to make George Dumbya Bush appear to have a better economy than existed in natural market times.

BUT

Even though conventional mortgages dropped about 2%, most lenders denied a majority of conventional mortgages, and opted instead to ONLY give out ARMs, with superlow initial (read: short term) rates, and UnGodly rates after 1, 2 or 3 years. Long Term Ownership was thoroughly discouraged. And then people started using their homes as an ATM. They bought cars that are now three years old. I know so many people who are totally fuqued.

Yap...this is the real reason for today's crisis.

 

[Svnla]

This big mess was a result from many factors: (both sides D and R are all guilty plus greed <from Wall Street (commission/fee) and Main Street (inflate income/house flipping)>...just to name a few)

http://www.livescience.com/his...-banking-industry.html

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/I...spx?id=307322285431688

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212948811465427.html

 

[Overgloc]

Video is GONE! Hmmm