Did I lose the silicon lotto with an I5 2500k?

[Chaotic0ne]

I'm using a cooler master 212+ evo. My temps are pretty low. Idle in the 25-28C range, and temps don't even break 50c in gaming. I got a push/pull setup with 2 fans on the 212+ evo. That's cooler is plenty good enough to get into the 1.35v range without getting too hot. I just can't find a stable overclock. Did I mention, Gigabyte's bios layout sucks? They got their own specific terminology, and its pointless trying to follow an OCing guide unless its done specifically for a gigabyte board. This will be the last gigabyte board I buy. Its the least user friendly UI.

 

[Ketchup]

BIOS depends on your preference. I liked it because all the overclocking was in one menu. Instead of setting the cpu voltage, set it to auto, and see if it does better. What are you using to check temperature with?

What are you setting memory at? Make sure you have it set below what it is rated for, to be sure it is not your holdup since you are testing cpu overclocks.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

Just checking. Did you reset bios to stock update bios to latest recently and clear Cmos then try your overclocking?

That board is cake to OC.




set volts to 1.375 and leave everything else on auto. Leave all the ci1e stuff on and set your ram to stock voltage only and leave timing on auto. Set the multi to 46 and reboot.

Can you boot at that multi?

One of my boards when it had a shitty bios had a big hole between 42-45 multi. Going above to 46 opened up and it benched at 4.8 and 5.0



If it doesnt boot try level 5 LLC and up volts by a titty whisker

There is a multiplier dead zone for this CPU between 4.3-4.5. 4.6, and 4.7 will boot, but neither are stable under 1.4v which is beyond the ability of a 212+ to manage those temps.

The highest I was able to boot 4.2 and make it survive 30 minutes of LinX, but the temps got up into the 74C range, and then I played some Witcher 3, and the temps got as high as 64C on one of the cores. But the Vcore is borderline for what I should be trying to push with a 212+. Basically, that's running way too hot for only 4.2ghz. I tried lowering the volts to 1.32, and the PC crashed after 2 minutes of LinX. So its pretty safe to say 4.2ghz is about the maximum this CPU is going to do on air, which means I definitely got a dud.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

BIOS depends on your preference. I liked it because all the overclocking was in one menu. Instead of setting the cpu voltage, set it to auto, and see if it does better. What are you using to check temperature with?

I'm using realtemp to check the temps. Also, MSI afterburner's temp readouts appear to be at least as accurate as realtemp.

The highest I can get on auto is 4.0ghz. And its not 100% stable. It'll blue screen maybe twice a month. I tried modifying the voltage to slightly higher than what auto was pushing it under load for 4.0ghz (1.272v), to 1.28-1.29-1.30 and it just made it MORE unstable. That leads me to believe there might be specific setting in the gigabyte bios that I've been overlooking for years. It'll boot 4.2 on auto, but its really unstable, LinX will crash it in under 1 minute.

There are a bunch of other things you can modify up or down in the Bios, and most OCing guides I've looked at don't even mention them, but in my case tweaking one of those settings most other's don't have to might be the difference in me getting a stable OC. Settings like QTI/VTT voltage, system agent voltage, dynamic Vcore (greyed out for me) and maybe a couple of others. My gigabyte touch bios doesn't have access to all the settings, just a few. For the rest, I'd have to get into the actual Bios itself.

What are you setting memory at? Make sure you have it set below what it is rated for, to be sure it is not your holdup since you are testing cpu overclocks.

I've been leaving the memory at stock settings. I'm not sure how a bad stick of ram could survive 4 years of normal usage unnoticed? It seems like I'd know it by now if one of them was bad. But I'll try down clocking them anyway. If downclocking ram a little means me getting a higher stable OC on my CPU, that's a trade I'm willing to do. I5 2500k @ 4.0ghz is going to bottleneck an R9 390 in a few games, but if I could get just a 200-300mhz more I think I could bring it safely out of bottleneck territory at least for another year or 2.

Would 16GBs of ram be problematic for overclocking? Should I remove 2 of the sticks? I'm cool with 8GBs of ram if it can get me a few hundred MHz more OC on my CPU.

 

[Ketchup]

There is a multiplier dead zone for this CPU between 4.3-4.5. 4.6, and 4.7 will boot, but neither are stable under 1.4v which is beyond the ability of a 212+ to manage those temps.

The highest I was able to boot 4.2 and make it survive 30 minutes of LinX, but the temps got up into the 74C range, and then I played some Witcher 3, and the temps got as high as 64C on one of the cores. But the Vcore is borderline for what I should be trying to push with a 212+. Basically, that's running way too hot for only 4.2ghz. I tried lowering the volts to 1.32, and the PC crashed after 2 minutes of LinX. So its pretty safe to say 4.2ghz is about the maximum this CPU is going to do on air, which means I definitely got a dud.

I think you are having mounting/material issues. Mine hit only 63 C at 4.3, and that really isn't an extraordinary temp for this chip. My max vcore at that speed was 1.31.

The highest I hit was 80 C at 4.9, with the vcore hitting 1.48. That was a "see if it will finish 3dmark" test, not a "keep it" speed.

I would remove the cooler/ thermal material and put something good between the chip and the cooler. Remember, not to much. I usually do just enough to cover the cooler and enough to cover the irregularities on the bottom of the cooler.

When you first put it back on, leave the vcore on auto. Once you start going up again and find a good overclock, then you can start trying different vcore values.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

I think you are having mounting/material issues. Mine hit only 63 C at 4.3, and that really isn't an extraordinary temp for this chip. My max vcore at that speed was 1.31.

The highest I hit was 80 C at 4.9, with the vcore hitting 1.48. That was a "see if it will finish 3dmark" test, not a "keep it" speed.

I would remove the cooler/ thermal material and put something good between the chip and the cooler. Remember, not to much. I usually do just enough to cover the cooler and enough to cover the irregularities on the bottom of the cooler.

I haven't replaced the thermal paste since I installed it 4 years ago. I'm assuming that this should be done more often? Ambient temps in my room are around 75F as well, so that needs to be considered. Also the R9 390 spreads air in the case and doesn't push it out the back which will no doubt raise the temps of the CPU a little higher than a GPU that pushes air out the back like my old Radeon 6970 did. I could maybe use a couple more auxiliary fans inside of the case to improve airflow. Recommend any? This is the tower I got:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112243

I got a very good deal on that case from someone on Craig's list. Only paid $80 for it. Its a $200 case.

I could easily zip tie 2 auxiliary fans to the HDD rack, one blowing between the GPU and the PSU, and the other between the CPU cooler and the GPU forcing air out the back. That wasn't necessary before, but it might be now.

I'm also looking into the possibility of doing a case mod to mount a side fan in, and maybe one on the top as well. I'm open to suggestions on good fans for doing that as well. I'm proficient with tools, I used to be a welder/fabricator, so modding a case would be no sweat for me. A neighbor down the road from me has a milling machine in his garage, and I'm sure he'd let me borrow it if I needed to do a circular profile.

 

[Ketchup]

An alluminum Lian-Li with 4 large fans is hard to improve on, so that it hard to beat.

A good thermal connection between your CPU and hsf should last for years, so the only thing you should have to mess with is dust. Now, if the thermal contact wasn't good to begin with, which I think is a possibility, that will not improve over time.

The video card concerns me a bit. These are hot cards, and dumping that amount of heat inside your case is not going to help your overclocking efforts at all. Out of curiosity what card did you get? A quick search on Newegg shows only cards with rear exhaust. If the card is keeping all the air in your case, I would recommend a pci exhaust card, just for that fan. Something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835888602

But are you sure it isn't pushing air out? Do you have your case open for the slot below the card?

 

[Chaotic0ne]

An alluminum Lian-Li with 4 large fans is hard to improve on, so that it hard to beat.

Its nowhere near as good as lets say a cooler master HAF X which has a top fan and side fan. But I could mod this case to make it as good as a HAF X.

A good thermal connection between your CPU and hsf should last for years, so the only thing you should have to mess with is dust. Now, if the thermal contact wasn't good to begin with, which I think is a possibility, that will not improve over time.

Is it possible the CPU cooler sagged a little and just needs to be re-tightened?

The video card concerns me a bit. These are hot cards, and dumping that amount of heat inside your case is not going to help your overclocking efforts at all. Out of curiosity what card did you get? A quick search on Newegg shows only cards with rear exhaust. If the card is keeping all the air in your case, I would recommend a pci exhaust card, just for that fan. Something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835888602

But are you sure it isn't pushing air out? Do you have your case open for the slot below the card?

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm gonna order that right now.

Its an MSI gaming 8G model - Twin Frozr V cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127874&cm_re=r9_390-_-14-127-874-_-Product

This GPU doesn't seem like its pushing much air out the back as my old 6970 did. If I turn the fans to 100% and put my hand near the vent, I should be able to feel a ton of air coming out, and that just isn't the case.

 

[Ketchup]

I think our difinitions of pushing air out the back differ.

Also the R9 390 spreads air in the case and doesn't push it out the back...

the card you linked ABSOLUTELY does push air out the back. (Edit: with good case air flow. I do see what you are saying, the video fan itself isn't pushing auri out the back unless case airflow is going that direction.) That is why there is an open extra slot included in the card/ under the PCB.

This doesn't mean there will not be some heat coming off the top of the card, but IMO it is a decent design. It keeps my card nice and cool. What you have to remember is that your current card is a VERY hot card.

 

[Ketchup]

I will pass along an experience I had a few years ago with a GTX 9800+. These were actually the first 55 nm cards, and ran quite cool compared to a standard 9800.

So I was quite puzzled when even the smallest GPU load would ramp up the fan, as most folks on the web were saying the opposite. So I took the HSF off and found the problem - only a small corner of the chip had a dab of paste on it. Once I re-applied, it was a night and day difference.

So, it wouldn't be a bad idea, while you are re-applying paste and re-mounting your CPU cooler, to go ahead and do the same on the GPU. Remember that when re-applying these types of coolers (both), it is best to tighten each corner a little at a time, otherwise your paste will be driven to one side of the chip.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

How come @ 100% fan speed, I can't feel air coming out of the vent in the back? There definitely is a pocket of hot air rising off the GPU and reaching the CPU. The temps on my I5 2500 prior to the R9 390 installation were considerably better than they are now by about 8-10C. I'll know when I get that PCI fan installed whether it was the GPU causing the extra heat, and if that isn't sufficient then I'll reinstall the cooler and put new compound on it.

I'm thinking about spending $50 in fans, the PCI slot one, a couple of inside case fans, and possibly some fans with better air flow than the ones I got on my 212+ cooler. If someone wants to recommend a good pair of fans for a 212+, please do.

FYI, I took 2 sticks of ram out and am using 2 sticks of 4GB DDR3, and I downclocked the ram by 50mhz. I aimed for 4.2ghz again, this time @ 1.296v under heavy load, around 1.34v with no load. A couple steps in between that depending on how heavy the load is. Multi-steps load line level 5. It survived 30 minutes of LinX, and another 30 minutes of Witcher 3. I'll run prime 95 before I go to sleep and let it run overnight and see what happens. 4.3-4.5ghz won't even boot no matter the voltage. If I can get 4.2 stable, which I couldn't before, I might try 4.6 again and see what happens.

 

[Ketchup]

The fan for the CM is a good idea. We have talked about this in other threads, but basically the cooler is great for the money, the fans are not so much.

Here is a fan that should help a bit:
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-F12-PWM-Cooling-Fan/dp/B00650P2ZC

And here is a comparison video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKHD1pQJN9U

 

[Face2Face]

This GPU doesn't seem like its pushing much air out the back as my old 6970 did. If I turn the fans to 100% and put my hand near the vent, I should be able to feel a ton of air coming out, and that just isn't the case.

Was your 6970 a reference blower based design? If so, that would be the reason you would feel air coming from the back of the card. Open air coolers like your new 390 use and exhaust air from within your case, hence why you don't feel much or any air exhausted from the back of your current video card. Open air coolers without good case air flow will cause your CPU and MB temps to rise. Even with decent case airflow you're bound to see a slight rise in temps.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

Ok, I figured out it IS the GPU raising the case temps which means my CPU runs hotter the hotter my GPU is, due to lack of proper airflow.

I raised the GPU fan speed to 50% to bring down the idle temps of the GPU to 35C and under, and then started prime 95 to see where my temps would balance out at, and its barely creeping over 60C. Last time I stress tested, I wasn't paying attention to my GPU temps, and the Twin Frozr V cooler quits spinning at low GPU usage, and the GPU was idling in the 60C range, which of course means the CPU is going to run hotter as well. So that explains it. That also explains why my CPU temps got into the 60C range playing witcher 3, due to insufficient air flow.

Ambient temps in my room is 75 F at the moment.

TL;DR - I need to get some fans.

 

[Face2Face]

You could always buy one of these for your case - http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...-Z70_A70F_A71F_A77F_P80N.html?tl=g43c241s1111

But if you're going to be spending that much, you might as well look for another case.

How good are you with a Dremel? 🙂

 

[Ketchup]

I think you need to tell your GPU cooler to start spinning the fans up at a lower temp. But the noise may be too annoying to be a permanent fix. Like I said, checking the TIM on the GPU is not a bad idea.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

Was your 6970 a reference blower based design? If so, that would be the reason you would feel air coming from the back of the card. Open air coolers like your new 390 use and exhaust air from within your case, hence why you don't feel much or any air exhausted from the back of your current video card. Open air coolers without good case air flow will cause your CPU and MB temps to rise. Even with decent case airflow you're bound to see a slight rise in temps.

It was this model here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161382

So yeah, it was a blower based design. One of those will play Witcher 3 on medium settings, 1080p with most post processing enabled and get 30-40fps OC'd at 950 core. For a GPU pushing 5 years old, that's not bad at all.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

You could always buy one of these for your case - http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...-Z70_A70F_A71F_A77F_P80N.html?tl=g43c241s1111

But if you're going to be spending that much, you might as well look for another case.

How good are you with a Dremel? 🙂

I got better than a dremel, I got access to a 2 axis milling machine. That means programmable X and Y axis, but the Z needs manual adjusting. A 3 axis can program X, Y, and Z. All I need to do is clamp the side of the case down to a vice and run a profile for the spot I need cut. If its rectangular, then all I need to do is the corners with a dremel tool. It doesn't get more precision than a milling machine. They work within thousandths of an inch, or hundredths of a millimeter. If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna put a huge fan on the side, probably 200mm+.

 

[Face2Face]

It was this model here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161382

So yeah, it was a blower based design. One of those will play Witcher 3 on medium settings, 1080p with most post processing enabled and get 30-40fps OC'd at 950 core. For a GPU pushing 5 years old, that's not bad at all.

Not bad at all. The 6970 is between a 7850 2GB and 7870 2GB in performance.

I got better than a dremel, I got access to a 2 axis milling machine. All I need to do is clamp the side of the case down to a vice and run a profile for the spot I need cut. If its rectangular, then all I need to do is the corners with a dremel tool.

:thumbsup: