Did I get welfare wrong??????

[bshole]

For the record, when I put an LOL on a post, it is meant as a joke. LOL...

FYI: Here is why we throw money at the poor. This has been explained about 100 times already I know.

Real world example, Brazil. Basically the rich there live in armed fortresses and travel with armed guards. They are almost like prisoners in their own country. They spend their entire lives with bulls eye on their back. Basically if you don't give the poor enough to live on, they will take it by force. Do you really expect them to just starve to death?

The crimes of most concern to consulate employees and Americans in Brazil include "express" kidnappings, carjackings, virtual kidnappings and home/restaurant invasions. Express kidnappings occur when criminals force their kidnapped victims to extract their daily cash limit from an ATM machine or hold them hostage while they use their credit cards until they are deactivated. Many incidents of robbery and express kidnappings occur outside of banks and ATM machines. The wealthy or those who are perceived as financially affluent remain the most attractive targets for professional criminals. Virtual kidnappings are a telephone scam designed to coax potential victims to pay a ransom even though no one has been kidnapped. Home invasions involve large groups of heavily armed criminals who take over houses or apartment complexes and rob the owners or occupants. Home/complex invasions usually are well planned and involve the assistance of a person on the inside or a scam (such as impersonating police, mail carriers, or potential homeowners) to gain access.

Crime on the road remains a problem for both visitors and local residents alike, especially during evening travel and traffic jams. Chases in traffic, though random, can occur anywhere in the city and are financially motivated. According to one police report in Moema, a car full of criminals preyed on one particular businessman, chasing him from Itaim to Morumbi. Though he was able to escape, he received a couple bullet wounds from the attack. Travelers are advised to use extreme caution during evening travel to evade roadside robberies that target passing and stopped vehicles. It is important that drivers pay attention to their surroundings, and keep doors locked and windows rolled up when stopped in traffic.

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=13521

 

[Incorruptible]

Listen, the whole moron rightwinger persona is played out here. I'll give you points for persistence but you aren't funny, you aren't creative, you aren't original. I have to imagine at this point pissing into a swamp isn't even as entertaining for you as it used to be. I doubt anyone here really takes you seriously anymore after you called Obama "boy" and then feigned ignorance as to why people considered racist so at this point you probably aren't even getting the satisfaction of fooling people. Isn't there some other board out there on the whole wide internet you can go and annoy instead of P&N where the lunatic frothing 12 year old act might be novel?

Not a rightwinger and I didn't call obama boy. I did highlight his middle name since I knew the left would go ape-shit over it and I stated numerous times he was Christian.

I am on P&N to talk politics and not to troll or annoy. You find my posts annoying because I dare disagree with your big government agenda.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Actually this is a pretty good analogy... and probably a replication of sorts of the situation we have presently with welfare. Unfortunately I think the welfare situation might be a lot more complex making it more difficult to treat. We aren't dealing with weather and people abusing the soil, we are dealing with people.

The dust bowl was all about people, and the inner city situation is all about people.
The people caused the drought which changed the weather.
The US has always had a problem with a lot of poor people barely existing in the inner cities.
I suppose that as long as there is people like incor, your always going to have poverty and lots of people on welfare

 

[piasabird]

I am not against welfare. I give money at church all the time. I am a finance clerk at the church and I see where the money is going. It is often the difference between keeping people in their homes so they keep from becoming homeless. Mormons have a custom of fasting on the first Sunday of the month and donating the price of a meal or what we can for welfare. We call it the fast offering. We fast so we know what it means to go hungry in memory of the fast of Jesus Christ. We consider the fast offering to be a holy offering to God.

I would rather all welfare funds be handled by people who are willing to donate their time and effort instead of paying welfare social workers paid by the government. Often aid agencies spend a greater portion of every dollar donated to them like the Red Cross and Christian charities and the United Way and other agencies. All these types of agencies you can donate to through your church or workplace. I encourage people to donate extra as this is a time of need.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I am not against welfare. I give money at church all the time. I am a finance clerk at the church and I see where the money is going. It is often the difference between keeping people in their homes so they keep from becoming homeless. Mormons have a custom of fasting on the first Sunday of the month and donating the price of a meal or what we can for welfare. We call it the fast offering. We fast so we know what it means to go hungry in memory of the fast of Jesus Christ. We consider the fast offering to be a holy offering to God.

I would rather all welfare funds be handled by people who are willing to donate their time and effort instead of paying welfare social workers paid by the government. Often aid agencies spend a greater portion of every dollar donated to them like the Red Cross and Christian charities and the United Way and other agencies. All these types of agencies you can donate to through your church or workplace. I encourage people to donate extra as this is a time of need.

The problem with that though is that Mormons want to help Mormons and people they think they can convert to Mormons.
Like you've said before, the rest can die

 

[Abraxas]

Not a rightwinger and I didn't call obama boy. I did highlight his middle name since I knew the left would go ape-shit over it and I stated numerous times he was Christian.

I am on P&N to talk politics and not to troll or annoy. You find my posts annoying because I dare disagree with your big government agenda.

Why do you find it necessary to insult me, you only lose credibility by doing that. Those people dont matter since there not president. The boy only won because of his skin color, people believed that apparently only white people are corrupt and a black person can fix the mess.

What part of that statement is racist, I think he has done a horrible job so I call him a boy not a man, he did win because of his skin colour considering 96% of black people voted for him and obama used his race. obama kept referring to change, people thought if the president is black then all of a sudden there would be prosperity but there were wrong.

I am not paranoid about islam and obama. There are actual reports of supporters of the muslim brotherhood working in the white house and with obama though, these same guys were the ones who told obama that the brotherhood is moderate and to seat them at the front. As well obama only wants muslim women with hijab not ones that show there hair because they dont look muslim.

You think I am paranoid but I am not you are very mistaken about whats going on, look at what is happening in Europe where radical islam is spreading through and many countries even admitted multiculturalism is a failure.

Now that you have been proven wrong, would it be possible for you to fuck off now? Like, forever?

 

[spittledip]

The dust bowl was all about people, and the inner city situation is all about people.
The people caused the drought which changed the weather.
The US has always had a problem with a lot of poor people barely existing in the inner cities.
I suppose that as long as there is people like incor, your always going to have poverty and lots of people on welfare

What I meant is that with the Dust Bowl, the issues to fix had to do with weather and abuse of the land. Poverty is a lot more complex b/c the issues have to do with fixing people.

 

[Moonbeam]

shady28;36011181]Change your mind to what?

The experiment shows some percentage of homeless people 1 year later will no longer be homeless given some resources to pull themselves up. I think the article said 30%.

M: I think it said 11 out of 13 and additionally:

A year after the experiment had started, eleven out of thirteen had a roof above their heads. They accepted accommodation, enrolled in education, learnt how to cook, got treatment for drug use, visited their families and made plans for the future. ‘I loved the cold weather,’ one of them remembers. ‘Now I hate it.’ After decades of authorities’ fruitless pushing, pulling, fines and persecution, eleven notorious vagrants finally moved off the streets.    The Joseph Rowntree Foundation did a study of this experiment.

Costs? 50,000 pounds a year, including the wages of the aid workers. In addition to giving eleven individuals another shot at life, the project had saved money by a factor of at least 7. Even The Economist concluded:

‘The most efficient way to spend money on the homeless might be to give it to them.’


s: How many of those 30% would no longer have been homeless 1 year later without help?

How many become homeless again within 5 years?

And what do we do with the 70%?

Lots of unanswered questions.

M: London, May 2009. A small experiment involving thirteen homeless men takes off. They are street veterans. Some of them have been sleeping on the cold tiles of The Square Mile, the financial center of the world, for more than forty years.

Forty years one way and then another in one year and you think one more year makes a difference. Or five years. I like questions that aren't rationalizations intended to convince me of something I don't want to believe which is clearly what you are up to since you can't even read the data properly.

s: In this test, they all knew it was a test - as such it was a one time deal.

M: Absolutely pathetic reasoning.

s: I seriously doubt any such program turned "official" would be a one time deal.

M: My point exactly, you seriously doubt because you aren't open to information. You love your own opinion too much and it is just a stupid uninformed opinion with no experimental data presented to back it up.

This thread is here for people capable of considering interesting data openly.

 

[MagickMan]

For the record, when I put an LOL on a post, it is meant as a joke. LOL...

FYI: Here is why we throw money at the poor. This has been explained about 100 times already I know.

Real world example, Brazil. Basically the rich there live in armed fortresses and travel with armed guards. They are almost like prisoners in their own country. They spend their entire lives with bulls eye on their back. Basically if you don't give the poor enough to live on, they will take it by force. Do you really expect them to just starve to death?

Everyone gets robbed in Brazil, not just the wealthy (which are largely drug dealers and mafiosos). It's because they have almost no law enforcement to speak of, and what few police are there are corrupt. All this brought by a far-Left government that blew what few resources it actually did have on ill-fated social programs instead of infrastructure. I've been to Rio, it's nice, but the only people who are safe are the wealthy, because they can pay for security.

 

[QuantumPion]

For the record, when I put an LOL on a post, it is meant as a joke. LOL...

FYI: Here is why we throw money at the poor. This has been explained about 100 times already I know.

Real world example, Brazil. Basically the rich there live in armed fortresses and travel with armed guards. They are almost like prisoners in their own country. They spend their entire lives with bulls eye on their back. Basically if you don't give the poor enough to live on, they will take it by force. Do you really expect them to just starve to death?
https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=13521

Well when you deny people rights to live freely to generate their own wealth, of course there will be unrest. The problem with Brazil isn't rich vs. poor, it's lords vs. serfs.

 

[LunarRay]

Not a rightwinger and I didn't call obama boy. I did highlight his middle name since I knew the left would go ape-shit over it and I stated numerous times he was Christian.

I am on P&N to talk politics and not to troll or annoy. You find my posts annoying because I dare disagree with your big government agenda.

I wonder how many Congress people could get elected if they proclaimed they were Atheist? I'd venture to say there are quite a few in Congress and any other elected governmental position that simply use religion as a political ally.

For what it is worth.... I don't find your posts annoying. You've an opinion and a right to that opinion. If I ever get annoyed because someone sees the same issue differently than me I'd have to examine that move toward intolerance.

The king of Jordan... our buddy, had the same name....

 

[Incorruptible]

I wonder how many Congress people could get elected if they proclaimed they were Atheist? I'd venture to say there are quite a few in Congress and any other elected governmental position that simply use religion as a political ally.

For what it is worth.... I don't find your posts annoying. You've an opinion and a right to that opinion. If I ever get annoyed because someone sees the same issue differently than me I'd have to examine that move toward intolerance.

The king of Jordan... our buddy, had the same name....

I doubt many would get elected and unfortunately it would be difficult for them to run for higher office like president. I absolutely agree there are too many idiots who use religion to get into office but are some of the biggest hypocrites there are. The religious right needs to stop this nonsense and some of them don't even follow their religion properly.

 

[Zaap]

This is confusing. It's really, really bad when people inherit money, but it's really, really good to give people money.

LOL. Yeah, if the people giving you money are relatated to you and giving it of their own free will, that's pure evil and greed. If you get a politician to steal the same money and pretend to give it to totally unrelated people while they actually give most of it to their rich.campaign contributors and hand the serfs that.much more.debt to pay off, that's the most generous thing you can do.

 

[werepossum]

The problem with that though is that Mormons want to help Mormons and people they think they can convert to Mormons.
Like you've said before, the rest can die

In my experience Mormons are almost without exception some of the kindest, most generous people I've ever known, regardless of the needy's religion or lack thereof. To the extent that they preach in their charities, it's because when someone is at rock bottom it is usually not an isolated occurrence but part of an ongoing problem - the kind of problem where G-d can help. It's also worth pointing out that Mormons often do missions not only to spread the Gospel but also to help people materially, often in places that are unpleasant and even dangerous. I haven't known any Mormons killed on missions but I have known a couple who contracted nasty diseases and parasites on mission. These missions are often two or even three years, generally taken at the missionaries' expense, often involving hard physical labor in primitive surroundings, teaching Christ's love by example as much as by word.

It's amazing to me that people sneer at Christian charities where volunteers spend their own time and money helping people, yet exalt those getting paid to dispense other people's money. That's pretty messed up. It's like believing that you can't really help someone if you give a fuck about him, only if you're being paid to help him.

 

[Orignal Earl]

In my experience Mormons are almost without exception some of the kindest, most generous people I've ever known, regardless of the needy's religion or lack thereof. To the extent that they preach in their charities, it's because when someone is at rock bottom it is usually not an isolated occurrence but part of an ongoing problem - the kind of problem where G-d can help. It's also worth pointing out that Mormons often do missions not only to spread the Gospel but also to help people materially, often in places that are unpleasant and even dangerous. I haven't known any Mormons killed on missions but I have known a couple who contracted nasty diseases and parasites on mission. These missions are often two or even three years, generally taken at the missionaries' expense, often involving hard physical labor in primitive surroundings, teaching Christ's love by example as much as by word.

It's amazing to me that people sneer at Christian charities where volunteers spend their own time and money helping people, yet exalt those getting paid to dispense other people's money. That's pretty messed up. It's like believing that you can't really help someone if you give a fuck about him, only if you're being paid to help him.

In my experience, most people are good people
It seems a large percent of posters on this board find most people are assholes
My post was directed to Pisa who I find to be a hypocrite

 

[Victorian Gray]

/facepalm......

Apparently you can't answer the question?

 

[Ausm]

I fail to see how a mincome experiment works when only a small portion of the population gets it, funded by the rest of the working stiffs who pay into the system but get nothing back. In the Dauphin experiment, it was 30% of the population who then went on to be artists and songwriters. How nice for the 30%. What about the other 70% who still had to do real work to pay for those people to do whatever they wanted?

Do you include yourself in the 70%?