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Did BMW cheapen it's brand by introducing a new cheaper 3series model?

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Doppel said:
This is fact. I see a kind of desperate attention whoriness of a BMW owner.
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Hahah, not all of us man! With my E39 M5, I took the M labels off, and was almost ready to put a 525i label on the rear. I also changed to style 66M 17" wheels, which cleared the stoptechs (painted the stoptech's black to avoid recognition). I did some stuff like ACS sways and stiffer springs but didn't lower it. My eventual plan was also to end the exhaust in front of the rear bumper, and have the stock 525i tips sticking out there, but to do it right I had to find a 525i rear bumper to go with it.

I just wanted it to be as unassuming as possible, even after getting the VT-550 installed. The last thing I wanted was the typical hellaflush dudebro BMW reputation. E39s are perfect for being sensible plain cars that don't attract attention.
 
Tons of bmw are bought or driven by people who don't care about the "ultimate driving experience." This just gets them into a BMW at less expense. In turn, that $32k starting price probably doesn't exist. When you go to the lot, they all have premium package, leather, and all sorts of extra's driving the cost up several thousands of dollars.

I don't see anything wrong with it and it's not like a 3 series is an exclusive car. It's just more expensive than it's Japanese counterparts.
 
Ironically I'm considering a 335i for a new DD/beater to NOT get attention, but to anonymously blend in with the endless sea of IS, 3 series, and C classes around here while still having better performance than all of the above.

Camry is too easy a target where everybody wants a piece and it gets the negative attention that makes me want to strangle people for being 1 upping douches. The Cobra while succeeding in making me a non target for same douches is too extreme and I can't drive it all the time, eg monsoon season and hate feeling like I'm naked in public without it.

All I know is I want the M sport package, I esp like the rear looks; fond of black bumper cutouts. Haven't decided coupe or
 
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exdeath said:
Ironically I'm considering a 335i for a new DD/beater to NOT get attention, but to anonymously blend in with the endless sea of IS, 3 series, and C classes around here while still having better performance than all of the above.

Camry is too easy a target where everybody wants a piece and it gets the negative attention that makes me want to strangle people for being 1 upping douches. The Cobra while succeeding in making me a non target for same douches is too extreme and I can't drive it all the time, eg monsoon season and hate feeling like I'm naked in public without it.

All I know is Ib want the M sport package, I esp like the rear looks; fond of black bumper cutouts. Haven't decided coupe or
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I always refer to the C classes I see as it standing for Mercedes Camry. >_< I think pretty much anyone with a job around where I live has a 3 series though. The leasing options are so good now, if you don't drive over 15k miles a year, it is a great deal. That was one of the reasons I chose the A5; I see more Ferraris than I see Audis where I live.

I think BMW is smart to offer a "starter" version of the 3 series now. Once you drive one, chances are you might want to upgrade with your next car to a pricier version later.
 
The last M3 rolled off the line today. You can only get an M4 now. It's ok though, because an M4 is one better.

(Actual pic--the orange one is the last M3):

k-bigpic.jpg
 
exdeath said:
Ironically I'm considering a 335i for a new DD/beater to NOT get attention, but to anonymously blend in with the endless sea of IS, 3 series, and C classes around here while still having better performance than all of the above.

Camry is too easy a target where everybody wants a piece and it gets the negative attention that makes me want to strangle people for being 1 upping douches. The Cobra while succeeding in making me a non target for same douches is too extreme and I can't drive it all the time, eg monsoon season and hate feeling like I'm naked in public without it.

All I know is I want the M sport package, I esp like the rear looks; fond of black bumper cutouts. Haven't decided coupe or
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You know what's ironic? What I find is that everybody and their mothers and their dogs want to cut me off now when I'm in my lowly 330Ci. Seriously, EVERY FUCKING ONE of them. They'd cut in, cut off, box in, all sorts of dickery, and for no particular reasons than just being dicks. That's what I find happen on a consistent basis.

Every fucking toyotas, hyundais, hondas, beaters, A3s, A4s, v6 mustangs, fucking c250s, etc... every one of them driven by shitheads, they do the same thing.
 
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I honestly don't see BMW owners as status-only buyers anymore. I haven't got that vibe recently. There are so many entry to mid level luxury/sport sedans out there, they just blend in.
35-45 with financing isn't that much money if you put something decent down.

And used, geez. You can get one dirt cheap with less than 40k in miles. My buddy picked up an E Series for 30k with less than 20k on the clock.

Now, for the attention whores. They are still out there. You can spot them because they are driving aging Bimmers that have been neglected. Yet they have outrageous rims with dark tint and some gaudy bauble that looks JC Whitney or Pep Boys in origin.
And I have no idea if they see themselves with any realism.

I figure, their credit is so bad, they can't hope to purchase a decent used model. So they are willing to agree to a stupid high interest, high penalty loan from a shark. And they are also wiling to buy someone else's nightmare project dumped on them and bought at auction for dirt cheap.
 
Fritzo said:
The last M3 rolled off the line today. You can only get an M4 now. It's ok though, because an M4 is one better.

(Actual pic--the orange one is the last M3):

k-bigpic.jpg
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I detect a little sarcasm there, but I haven't followed the M4 closely. I really like the M3 (coupe), and from what I've seen about the M4, I still like the M3 better. Any big downsides to the M4 that I may be missing, besides the way it looks?
 
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JackBurton said:
I detect a little sarcasm there, but I haven't followed the M4 closely. I really like the M3 (coupe), and from what I've seen about the M4, I still like the M3 better. Any big downsides to the M4 that I may be missing, besides the way it looks?
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From what I understand it's just BMW is redoing their naming conventions, making coupes even numbers and sedans odd numbers.
 
SSSnail said:
You know what's ironic? What I find is that everybody and their mothers and their dogs want to cut me off now when I'm in my lowly 330Ci. Seriously, EVERY FUCKING ONE of them. They'd cut in, cut off, box in, all sorts of dickery, and for no particular reasons than just being dicks. That's what I find happen on a consistent basis.

Every fucking toyotas, hyundais, hondas, beaters, A3s, A4s, v6 mustangs, fucking c250s, etc... every one of them driven by shitheads, they do the same thing.
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It's just you. I want to cut you off using my own 330Ci 😀
 
i guess i'm a little tired of well, honestly poor people on the internet saying BMW owners are all about status.

they are really good cars. yes i'm biased, i bought one last year. my parents have bought 5 now. they used to think the cars were way more expensive and unreliable and guess what , they really werent. given most of them cost $40k or less if you aren't insane with options its not really too terrible. you can buy an F-150 or a honda oddessey that costs $40k so its not like you are abuying a 911 GT3 or something.


the new 320i, competes well with the C250, IS250 and the ATS 2.5 and the infiniti Q50 with whatever low spec engine they release in the future. it has a very underrated power wise 2.0 L turbo N20 which is component wise about 95% the same as the one in the 328i and i'd have to say is probably better than the engine of all the other cars in its class. its basically class leading at everything and probably can do 0-60 in under 7 seconds which is more than fast enough for most people. BMW actaully lets you order this car fairly a la carte which other manufacturers dont... one with just the sport pack is barely $33k msrp, and you can get invoice on most BMWs or invoice + 500. so its what just slightly more than say a loaded accord v6. and it drives 10000x better. i don't think the 320i cheapens the brand so much since its still drives like a BMW. the CLA on the other hand, i think does cheapen the brand, say as the A / B class if they brought them over. if BMW really does make a FWD 1 series in 2018 as rumored, yes that too might cheapen what a BMW is.


i honestly think BMW offers reasonably good value on some of their cars. if i see someone with a low spec'd 320i with the sport pack or something i'm not gonna say they are a status seeker. i'm gonna say they know how to buy a great driving car for barely more than a loaded mid size FWD non premium car. i salute 320i buyers, at least they aren't paying $30k for a TSX or an ISX or a lincoln mkz or whatever.
 
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hans007 said:
i guess i'm a little tired of well, honestly poor people on the internet saying BMW owners are all about status.

they are really good cars. yes i'm biased, i bought one last year. my parents have bought 5 now. they used to think the cars were way more expensive and unreliable and guess what , they really werent. given most of them cost $40k or less if you aren't insane with options its not really too terrible. you can buy an F-150 or a honda oddessey that costs $40k so its not like you are abuying a 911 GT3 or something.

and the 320i is a much much better car than the CLA or A3. you still get RWD, you still get everything that means and you still get the 50/50 weight balance. i've owned FWD cars and some of them are fine cars for most people but its just not the same. used to have a TSX, great for what it is, but a new TSX these days is barely less than a 320i especially considering the free maintenancef. and its just no comparison.


the new 320i, competes well with the C250, IS250 and the ATS 2.5 (well ok this car's engine sucks). it has a very underrated power wise 2.0 L turbo N20 which is component wise about 95% the same as the one in the 328i and i'd have to say is probably better than the engine of all the other cars in its class. its basically class leading at everything and probably can do 0-60 in under 7 seconds which is more than fast enough for most people. BMW actaully lets you order this car fairly a la carte which other manufacturers dont... one with just the sport pack is barely $33k msrp, and you can get invoice on most BMWs or invoice + 500. so its what just slightly more than say a loaded accord v6. and it drives 10000x better.


hell i've come around on this. i think BMW offers really good value on some of their cars. if i see someone with a low spec'd 320i with the sport pack or something i'm not gonna say they are a status seeker. i'm gonna say they know how to buy a great driving car for barely more than a loaded mid size FWD non premium car.
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The value of a BMW doesn't come out until it's a used car. They are overpriced, and the newer ones are overly complicated, but yeah- they're reliable, awesome driving machines. You get a case of perma-grin when you find a curvy road and you feel like the tires have velcro on them.

The truth is new BMW's are priced so high that most of the people driving new ones have them on lease. Their certified "last year" models qualify for super-cheap financing, allowing for low interest 8 year payments (popular with younger people).

When you start getting models that are 5,6, even 10 years old, you start finding some incredible bargains. You can pick up high-end models in the $8000-$15000 range, and they're great cars (especially the e46). Easy to work on, large enthusiast community, parts are fairly cheap, and they'll run forever if you take care of them. I had no knowledge of BMW at all until about 4 years ago. The more I started learning about them, the more I liked...to the point where I just bought one to play around with.

A lot of the stereotypes of BMW drivers come from young people finding ways to get into a high-end vehicle and doing things that young people do with cars. Don't let them spoil what is essentially one of the best driving machines available. Maybe join them and show them the way it's supposed to be done 😉
 
BMW says the 320i does 0-60 in 7.1.

Most people are probably better off with a well-contented Accord V6 instead of a stripper BMW, unless they live on an AutoX course or something. That Accord V6 will do 0-60 in 5.6 and will be better at highway passing, which is far more common for "normal" people than anything the BMW is good at.
 
A5 said:
BMW says the 320i does 0-60 in 7.1.

Most people are probably better off with a well-contented Accord V6 instead of a stripper BMW, unless they live on an AutoX course or something. That Accord V6 will do 0-60 in 5.6 and will be better at highway passing, which is far more common for "normal" people than anything the BMW is good at.
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I don't know. 7-10 second 0-60's are the speed "vanilla" cars do. 7.1s isn't fast, but it's not slow (the Subie BRZ's 0-60 is 7.0s). The cars have a solid feel and a great interior, which a lot of people appreciate. The 328i is actually more of a competitor to the V6 Accord, and they're prices similarly as well. The 320i would compete more against the standard Civics.
 
Fritzo said:
I don't know. 7-10 second 0-60's are the speed "vanilla" cars do. 7.1s isn't fast, but it's not slow (the Subie BRZ's 0-60 is 7.0s). The cars have a solid feel and a great interior, which a lot of people appreciate. The 328i is actually more of a competitor to the V6 Accord, and they're prices similarly as well. The 320i would compete more against the standard Civics.
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I dunno what prices you're looking at, but I can get the top-model Accord Touring V6 for $30,300 with no negotiation. If I don't want Nav or fancy headlights, I can get an EX-L V6 for $27,100.

The base 320i is $31,350 and that's without a lot of features like power seats, real leather, navigation, etc.

They're obviously not going after the same market, but the 320i is a tough case to make unless you just really want a BMW on a budget, especialy when I can get a base 328i for a relatively small premium at $34,000.
 
I will say against my case that chasing the performance/$ in new cars pretty quickly ends you up at the Dodge Avenger SE V6 + 6Spd for $16,400. Which I think we can all agree probably isn't a great car 🙂
 
no, they're such a high volume company that 3 series and the like are as common as a camry etc in california. and most of them are 328i with an automatic and non-sport package...
 
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A5 said:
I dunno what prices you're looking at, but I can get the top-model Accord Touring V6 for $30,300 with no negotiation. If I don't want Nav or fancy headlights, I can get an EX-L V6 for $27,100.

The base 320i is $31,350 and that's without a lot of features like power seats, real leather, navigation, etc.

They're obviously not going after the same market, but the 320i is a tough case to make unless you just really want a BMW on a budget, especialy when I can get a base 328i for a relatively small premium at $34,000.
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depends what you want to spend the money on.

i think if you are a real enthusiast the 320i offers a really compelling value since basically it allows you to not take stuff you dont want. also the sport pack on the 320i is a really great value at $1300. it comes with the steering wheel from the $3850 m-sport line 328i and the suspension from the $2500+ sport or m-sport line.

the base prices are 32500 and 36800 these days. so if you wanted a bmw 3 series with a sport suspension (it is like a totally different car on the F30) the minimum you are spending for a 328 is 39300 and on the 320i $33800. $5500 or so, so a decent amount of cash for some people

its not that hard to get a bmw at $500 over invoice or even invoice. with incentives you can get it down to maybe $31-32k + tax for a 320i + sport pack. and it probably realistically has 200-210hp, plus free maintenance

the cheapest V6 accord invoices for about $28k. probably gets you to 60 1 second faster and its bigger and has "leather" which in cars this range is of dubious quality.

not really that obvious a choice , its close enough that you could choose either and the choice would not be a bad one.
 
A5 said:
I will say against my case that chasing the performance/$ in new cars pretty quickly ends you up at the Dodge Avenger SE V6 + 6Spd for $16,400. Which I think we can all agree probably isn't a great car 🙂
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I drove an Avenger rental not to long ago...it was actually pretty decent. Loved the performance 😀
 
hans007 said:
depends what you want to spend the money on.

i think if you are a real enthusiast the 320i offers a really compelling value since basically it allows you to not take stuff you dont want. also the sport pack on the 320i is a really great value at $1300. it comes with the steering wheel from the $3850 m-sport line 328i and the suspension from the $2500+ sport or m-sport line.

the base prices are 32500 and 36800 these days. so if you wanted a bmw 3 series with a sport suspension (it is like a totally different car on the F30) the minimum you are spending for a 328 is 39300 and on the 320i $33800. $5500 or so, so a decent amount of cash for some people

its not that hard to get a bmw at $500 over invoice or even invoice. with incentives you can get it down to maybe $31-32k + tax for a 320i + sport pack. and it probably realistically has 200-210hp, plus free maintenance

the cheapest V6 accord invoices for about $28k. probably gets you to 60 1 second faster and its bigger and has "leather" which in cars this range is of dubious quality.

not really that obvious a choice , its close enough that you could choose either and the choice would not be a bad one.
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Not really sure how this got to be a comparison, but Accords are HUGE these days. I think the Accord is more closely matched to the 5-series (not in every respect of course, but in size and general capability/use).

The 3, even though it's larger than it used to be, is still fairly cramped/small/compact. Backseat just like the A4, TSX, ILX, etc .. small. I like them, but someone sitting behind me in a 3-series better be an amputee, because I have to have the seat all the way back to clear my knees past the steering wheel. With cars the size of the 5 and the Accord, that's not necessarily the case, along with a larger trunk, more elbow room, etc.
 
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