Did anyone torrent The Hurt Locker?

[HumblePie]

I didn't, and don't use bit torrent enough to know, but how can they track down the people who got the movie? Is it just by having some kind of bot on the major torrent sites scanning and tracing IPs of anyone who downloads? Can't imagine peoples' personal information is out there otherwise.

Basically they sign up accounts and do what normal people do to download this stuff. They use software to find, track, and grab ISPs and information as they can. Usually it's a shotgun approach and the RIAA for example has been successfully counter sued for this crap. There are certain things can sue for and the rest they can't. Which is why the RIAA isn't as hard cracking as it used to be for example. That doesn't mean other companies have learned from the mistakes of the RIAA.

 

[HumblePie]

Didn't download this one, but I think I'll probably stop downloading movies now that I have a real ISP. Should probably still be safe with TV shows.

TV shows are free to disseminate. Anything are paid for by advertising for public broadcast is has an open public license. Any movie that has been shown on TV is also this way. So older movies you are typically good to download as well. It's the new stuff that you get in trouble for.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Is this even legal? Like, can ISP's just hand out your info to dickheads? Also, how in the hell would they even know you downloaded the movie? Are they just sending out random letters to people? I mean, can they prove WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that you actually downloaded this movie? I mean, Im not worried about it at all and if I do get a letter itll go in the trash, but Im just curious as to how all this is legal and how they can get your info and prove that you did what youre being convicted of.

 

[lxskllr]

TV shows are free to disseminate. Anything are paid for by advertising for public broadcast is has an open public license. Any movie that has been shown on TV is also this way. So older movies you are typically good to download as well. It's the new stuff that you get in trouble for.

I don't think that's correct. TV stations buy the rights to shows, and then sell advertising to recover their costs. The TV shows are copyrighted just like movies and music.

 

[jacc1234]

TV shows are free to disseminate. Anything are paid for by advertising for public broadcast is has an open public license. Any movie that has been shown on TV is also this way. So older movies you are typically good to download as well. It's the new stuff that you get in trouble for.

I don't think thats correct.

 

[Syringer]

Thank goodness I d/led this from my neighbor's connection.

I mean uh, hi guyz.

 

[rcpratt]

I don't really think that's right either. But they haven't targeted TV downloaders yet, I don't believe...

 

[lxskllr]

Is this even legal? Like, can ISP's just hand out your info to dickheads? Also, how in the hell would they even know you downloaded the movie? Are they just sending out random letters to people? I mean, can they prove WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that you actually downloaded this movie? I mean, Im not worried about it at all and if I do get a letter itll go in the trash, but Im just curious as to how all this is legal and how they can get your info and prove that you did what youre being convicted of.

They can be compelled to hand out the information with a court subpoena. Typically they get notified of possibly infringing behavior, and they send you a nastygram which doesn't really mean much. If you keep up with the downloading, the courts can get involved, and that's when the groups find out who you are.

 

[MrScott81]

They'll probably go after the people who downloaded this from public trackers.

 

[jacc1234]

The low hanging fruit are always the first targets. Im interested to see if anyone here gets sued.

 

[cronos]

usenet ftw

shush you

 

[gaidensensei]

I don't really think that's right either. But they haven't targeted TV downloaders yet, I don't believe...

I heard they were doing this for NBC shows? There's discussions on other major public/private torrent forums where people discuss what they've been caught with.

ISP came asking me about one movie only. Was wondering what it was all about because I don't torrent much if any at all. But they have proof, so nothing I can do about my case.

 

[Mani]

Basically they sign up accounts and do what normal people do to download this stuff. They use software to find, track, and grab ISPs and information as they can. Usually it's a shotgun approach and the RIAA for example has been successfully counter sued for this crap. There are certain things can sue for and the rest they can't. Which is why the RIAA isn't as hard cracking as it used to be for example. That doesn't mean other companies have learned from the mistakes of the RIAA.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't think that's correct. TV stations buy the rights to shows, and then sell advertising to recover their costs. The TV shows are copyrighted just like movies and music.

I was said is correct. Bah, I've pointed this out several times before. Let me grab the court cases proving this correct. It's basically part of the "fair use" law. This is basically why most of the networks are now letting their shows be freely streamed. They do so in hopes of getting more advertising to people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

The basic ruling comes from the Sony case with recording shows over the air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.


I will point out that just because it is a TV show does not mean it's free yet. It has to be broadcast. If you manage to obtain a show before it's been broadcast, then you are violating some serious laws.

EDIT also to stipulate, it is only legal if you have the entire show which includes commercials. The broadcast copyright is only because of the advertising. It is also only for personal use, so no reselling it. This is why you can record shows over the air and even lend it out to others to watch what you recorded. The tricky part is the commercials must be there.

 

[Arkaign]

I heard they were doing this for NBC shows? There's discussions on other major public/private torrent forums where people discuss what they've been caught with.

ISP came asking me about one movie only. Was wondering what it was all about because I don't torrent much if any at all. But they have proof, so nothing I can do about my case.

I can verify this. I was at a friend's home, who stupidly had his router wide open default (network = linksys, lol), and he had gotten a letter saying that he was committing copyright infringement by sharing some episode of House, had a specific filename and everything. Basically it didn't say that he was being sued, but his ISP was relaying the copyright infringement claim and threatening to disconnect his service if any more of the complaints came in. I set him up with the best security his crappy router was capable of, been fine since, which is about a year I think.

 

[ElFenix]

http://w2.eff.org/IP/P2P/RIAA_v_ThePeople/P2P_typical.pdf

but here are some quotes..






Basically they have to prove you do not have a right to download or share a file and prove that you did either or both. And it must include specifics and proofs of those specifics. This includes dates, times, and full files. Basically, they have to prove they got a whole file from you. Otherwise it doesn't count.

you should re-read the second half of the second paragraph you posted.

 

[slayer202]

http://w2.eff.org/IP/P2P/RIAA_v_ThePeople/P2P_typical.pdf

but here are some quotes..



Basically they have to prove you do not have a right to download or share a file and prove that you did either or both. And it must include specifics and proofs of those specifics. This includes dates, times, and full files. Basically, they have to prove they got a whole file from you. Otherwise it doesn't count.

don't torrents pretty much make sure you aren't giving a complete file to one person? or am I understanding that incorrectly

 

[HumblePie]

you should re-read the second half of the second paragraph you posted.

What about it? The burden of proof is on them and there are several ways they can obtain it. If you read the PDF you will see how people have successfully counter-sued the RIAA and won. Many people just took it in the rear though and got screwed. Those who fought back typically won. Also, just downloading itself it not infringement of copyright law per say.

The original copyright owner is called the "rights-holder". One of the "rights" protected and held by law to the rights-holder is the "right to distribute".

"Uploading", or sending a file, is distribution. You are distributing the file from yourself to someone else.

"Downloading", or receiving a file, does not meet the definition of distribution, and so is not a "protected right".

Put another way, the person who is sending you a file that they don't have the rights to (whether that is someone who set up a web site, or someone who is sending you pieces of the file via BitTorrent), may be violating copyright by distributing that content to you without the permission of the rightsholder. HOWEVER, the recipient of that content IS NOT BREAKING ANY EXISTING LAW.

If you look at court cases for copyright violation, you have yet to see someone who "downloaded music" or "downloaded movies" being charged. It is only when they are using P2P software, such as BitTorrent, where they also are uploading/distributing content as part of the process, that they get take-down notices and lawsuits from the rights-holders.

Also of note that the person making the distribution "ie uploading" is also making the copy.



Why is the law this way? Suppose I made an illegal copy of a movie and put it on a DVD. I went to your house while I had it in my pocket and it slipped out there. It is now in your possession. You did not break the law although you obtained a copy of something you never purchased. Possession of copyright material is not illegal or everyone would be screwed

 

[HumblePie]

don't torrents pretty much make sure you aren't giving a complete file to one person? or am I understanding that incorrectly

Yep. Which is why when the RIAA was doing it, they were going after people using stuff like Kazaa and usenet. Where they could make sure they were able to obtain a complete download.

However, the trick with torrents is if you are labeled a seeder, you have to have the full file. That's their proof. If you do not ever "seed" a torrent, they can't do anything.

 

[slayer202]

Yep. Which is why when the RIAA was doing it, they were going after people using stuff like Kazaa and usenet. Where they could make sure they were able to obtain a complete download.

However, the trick with torrents is if you are labeled a seeder, you have to have the full file. That's their proof. If you do not ever "seed" a torrent, they can't do anything.

does it matter if haven't seeded the entire file and just parts? or is it just as long as you have the whole file

 

[gaidensensei]

No one has mentioned the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) in this thread which is what some of these ISPS were operating on.
For the whole legal blah blah go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

It's what they stated on a "violation" letter I received from my isp.

 

[HumblePie]

does it matter if haven't seeded the entire file and just parts? or is it just as long as you have the whole file

They have to prove it was you specifically and that is was you who gave out the whole thing without their permission. That's the letter of the law for them to win a civil suit. If you do not have the whole file or did not share it, then that proof is lacking. Now have they won some suits without that proof? Yes because they got a sympathetic judge a few times, but anyone that has appealed has won by case records. There have been a few instances where they have had all the proof they need because the person has left their computer running for long periods of time seeding and they caught them in the act with a timely "warranted" raid search. This is why now they go after the big fish they know they can net. People who are sharing tons of stuff all the time. They shotgun approached a ton of people before and while some people pleaded no contest and took their judgement, many fought back and won. Which ended up biting the RIAA in the rear.

No one has mentioned the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) in this thread which is what some of these ISPS were operating on.
For the whole legal blah blah go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

It's what they stated on a "violation" letter I received from my isp.

Yep, that would be the law that copyright holders use to press their case. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they do not. Also, you can be "served" anything but that does not make you guilty of anything. The burden of proof is still on them that you violated the law.

EDIT again.. Thanks! finally remembered what I was looking for in broadcast information. The statutory license. part of DCMA when it comes to broadcast copyright material.

Also limitations 107 through 122 articles of copyright law deal with the exceptions and fair use of copyright material. For broadcasts and secondary broadcast exemptions feel free to read up on them.

 

[Samfau2]

This is why i no longer use torrents. It's usenet and rapidshare for me now, so what if i have to pay a little per month. It's still cheaper than paying for overpriced crap and a hell of a lot cheaper than a law suit.

Plus with the new laws here (Digital Economy Bill - U.K). I'm thinking a lot of bit torrent users are going to be screwed hard pretty soon. Also, it would be legal (as far as i understand) with sufficient evidence that a website is aiding in copyright infringement to then force ISP's to block that website from their customers which i think is a disgrace but am skeptical that it will ever happen in any significant way.

Albeit as soon as prosecuters start to focus on formats other than bit torrent i.e. usenet, i will migrate to whatever new form of piracy arises. Yes, i know it's difficult to form a case as the sharing/uploading aspect is not there as such but I'm sure this won't stop them.

People will get sued but piracy,. in whatever format, will most definately live on. Just my 2 pence.

---

Arrr-r-r-r, matey. Your very first post showing you to be a pirating jackass is the reason you will no longer be posting on our forums.

Good bye.

Harvey
Senior AnandTech Moderator/Administrator

 

[destrekor]

hmmm
i guess we'll see how private 'private' trackers are

SSL/HTTPS trackers, and forced usage (from within the software) of RC4 encryption on ports commonly used for other encrypted traffic!

 

[rockyct]

Fuck.

Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner.