Did anyone of U asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you?

[iamwiz82]

<<

<< Bump....been saying this all along....but I am being called un- American, because I am informed? I will not and do not justify the acts in DC and NY, but the US needs to tell us the truth, both sides of the story. The attacks were in no way unprovoked. If some of you would watch the news more often, you would see that the US has been in bed with many of the now enemies of of the states in th e past, when they were doing a job that was for the good of America. >>



same here >>




of course they were in bed together, look who was the president at the time!! i'll give you a hint: Bill Clinton.

 

[hungrypete]

<< The attacks were in no way unprovoked. >>



So by your logic, the next time someone pisses me off by loaning some money to my enemy, I should go blow up thier wife and kids.

We don't think you guys are un-American, we just think you are fools and cowards.

 

[hungrypete]

<<

<<

<< Bump....been saying this all along....but I am being called un- American, because I am informed? I will not and do not justify the acts in DC and NY, but the US needs to tell us the truth, both sides of the story. The attacks were in no way unprovoked. If some of you would watch the news more often, you would see that the US has been in bed with many of the now enemies of of the states in th e past, when they were doing a job that was for the good of America. >>

same here >>

of course they were in bed together, look who was the president at the time!! i'll give you a hint: Bill Clinton. >>



i hope that was just a joke and you are not blaming policy on clinton.

 

[Cyberian]

<< You just apologize yourself with others doing the same thing...great. As if that makes it allright?

Maybe that is a wonderful result of yor evolution, but maybe you should do better in the future in order to show other how to do it since you are the first nation in the world...

As for Afganistan goes....who are you fooling, you assist them because of fear of the reds, not cause you felt sympathetic toward Afgans. Same in Vietnam......how come then you dont assist Tibet when China invaded it? Fear...?

Come on people get real.....and I am not talking about support, I am talking about your potential victims. I know you have support. It is not about that

Kyoto...socialistic... no cooment.... maybe cause you are the greatest pollutor,....eh, it isnt worth it.

Sad, sad... >>


Just so I have this right .....
We were wrong to interfere in Viet Nam and Afghanistan, and we were wrong to not interfere in Tibet?

 

[LiQiCE]

You know, it seems like everyone thinks the USA should be perfect. We're the most powerful country in the world, and therefore we should be perfect. But unfortunately it seems as if other people don't realize this nation is comprised of people who are JUST as imperfect as they are. We are not perfect, nobody is. However, we don't blow up people because of their imperfections. The USA as a country is extremely understanding and sympathetic. The problem is because we are so understanding and sympathetic to other countries, we get verbally blasted and now physically blown up for the mistakes we make. Where is the due credit we deserve for the GOOD things we do? I think if you look at the positive things we have done versus the negative things we have done the positives far outweigh the negatives. (Examples: Helping countries in need when natural disasters occur.)

I do not think that we aided countries being invaded by Communist governments because we feared the "reds". The reason we did this was to fight Communism which typically is a form of government that defies human rights and more or less turns into an extremely corrupt dictatorship in which all commerce is restricted by the government. (This is not to say that the concept of Communism or Socialism is this way, but if you look at many of the actual examples of communist governments there are many examples of violations of human rights and corrupt leaders). Unfortunately, one country cannot fight for every single other country where there was a communist take over. Please remember we are not perfect! Neither are "you" though.

The terrorists who acted and supported this horrible tragedy are obviously very pessimistic. They see America as half empty, and all the negative acts which we have done. What they are blinding themselves to is the positives. We did in fact help Afganistan fight against an INVASION from the USSR. This is not an internal communist take over but a country forcibly taking over another country. I cannot understand how helping this country is a negative EXCEPT for the fact that it helped train Bin Laden which in turn may have caused the deaths of over 5000 innocent people (Not 5000 innocent Americans, 5000 human lives... Some of which were American, some were British, some were probably of Arab descent!) These terrorists also do not value human life. They don't value their own lives, they don't value other's lives, and they don't value the world as the incredible place that it is. Think about this world and all the technology and creations we as a people have made. And these terrorists would destroy all of it in a heartbeat if they could.

I don't think I can even begin to understand any reason for these bombings. I don't think we as a country have done anything so terrible to warrant such an attack on civilian lives. I understand that some people may not like America, but I think if they sat down and logically thought about the positive and negative things we have done as a country, they would see that the positives far outweigh the negatives. Obviously these terrorists are not thinking logically.

In any case, I don't know if anything that I wrote makes any sense ... What I do know is that I do not think this attack was warranted. I do not think America as a country has done anything so horrible that over 5000 innocent people deserved to die. I do think that there were many positive things that we have done for people around the world including people in the Middle East that we do not deserve this. I also believe that we must take action quickly to eradicate the terrorists who would take their own lives and countless others to get their point across. These people who would destroy all the wonderful things we as a people have created because they believe they will goto heaven. I do not think any of us wants to see the end of the world, (except maybe these terrorists). It is up to not only America, but the rest of the world to stop these people before they try to do just that.

Thats my 2 cents and I'm sorry if any of you don't agree with it, but freedom of speech is one of the many things the fathers of this country fought so hard to accomplish, and I'll be damned if a couple of terrorists are going to take away my freedoms and my life so they can get their point across.

 

[iamwiz82]

<<

<<

<<

<< Bump....been saying this all along....but I am being called un- American, because I am informed? I will not and do not justify the acts in DC and NY, but the US needs to tell us the truth, both sides of the story. The attacks were in no way unprovoked. If some of you would watch the news more often, you would see that the US has been in bed with many of the now enemies of of the states in th e past, when they were doing a job that was for the good of America. >>

same here >>

of course they were in bed together, look who was the president at the time!! i'll give you a hint: Bill Clinton. >>



i hope that was just a joke and you are not blaming policy on clinton. >>



i'm not blaming policy so much as pointing out some of the things that have surfaced in relationship to china and other less than good countries.

 

[wyvrn]

<< The terrorists who acted and supported this horrible tragedy are obviously very pessimistic. They see America as half empty, and all the negative acts which we have done. What they are blinding themselves to is the positives. We did in fact help Afganistan fight against an INVASION from the USSR. This is not an internal communist take over but a country forcibly taking over another country. I cannot understand how helping this country is a negative EXCEPT for the fact that it helped train Bin Laden which in turn may have caused the deaths of over 5000 innocent people (Not 5000 innocent Americans, 5000 human lives... Some of which were American, some were British, some were probably of Arab descent!) These terrorists also do not value human life. They don't value their own lives, they don't value other's lives, and they don't value the world as the incredible place that it is. Think about this world and all the technology and creations we as a people have made. And these terrorists would destroy all of it in a heartbeat if they could.

>>



Good paragraph. Good post overall.

 

[shifrbv]

Rudi -

I feel bad for you. What kind of person can justify an attack of such nature? Saying such things as it's "globalism" or even bringing up the nonsense of the Kyoto Treaty. Think to yourself for a minute. Think about what you are saying. Think about not only the +5,000 people that were lost (many of them who were not US citizens and hailed from many countries around the world) in the US this week, but also those many thousands lost to any number of senseless, evil terrorist acts in countries over the years. These terrorists are not a "new" thing, even though their recent acts are "new" to American soil. They have been with us for decades now and their recent actions should not only be a wakeup call to America but also a warning to the world.

Do these terrorists petition countries to address their grievances or oppression (such as those Mexicans who were on strike against German-owned VW in Mexico recently or the Korean auto workers on strike in their country)? Do they adhere to international law (such as those who overthrew Milosevik and are now seeing him tried in international court)? Do they show in any semblance or fashion a willingness or ability to negotiate with others in a civil and just manner?

No, they do none of these things. Instead, they go about in an evil, underhanded way. Preying upon the innocent and unsuspecting, blending into the system in such a way as a dormant virus waiting for the opportune time to weaken it's host. Who can stand for such injustice? Who will praise those who operate in such a manner? Better yet, who will be next? It might be someone you care for Rudi, someone you love, maybe even yourself.

 

[yobarman]

I don't get it...

Why does the world expect the US to come to the aid of every country in their time of a disaster, yet we get bickered at for being the "World's Police." We give and give to the rest of the world but we're thought so lowly of in most other countries.

I say if you don't like this country and what it stands for, get out. If you're arguing the attacks being justified, you should've been on of the attackers on the plane.

 

[Jzero]

Zwingle, Rudi, et al: You might as well not bother. I engaged this pointless debate, but there are a few on this board (forgive me for quoting hungrypete; I do not mean to single him out) who espouse a mentality of "If you're not with us, you're against us." Unfortunately, this idea polarizes the world into "Americans" and "Terrorists." Nothing in the world is ever so cut-and-dried, unfortunately.

Those who believe that heavy-handed US foreign policy seeded the kind of animosity to cause the WTC attack are NOT justifying terrorism. They are saying that in dealing with terrorism, the US should tread lightly for fear that they make even MORE enemies and precipitate even MORE attacks. We should LEARN from our mistakes. Unfortunately, some clown is going to say that I might as well have flown the plane myself by saying that. You can believe whatever you want...Webster's says a patriot is "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests." So ask yourself--is making America the enemy of many nations patriotic? Is encouraging America to work a _little_ less blindly in dealing with the situation unpatriotic?

In 5 years, if the US armed forces are playing Mexican Standoff in the mountains of Afghanistan and bin-Laden is still on the lam, I bet I'll see most of you so quick to judge others, burning the US flag yourself on TV at some war protest.

Much of the world supports us, for now. But we haven't really acted yet. Check the prevailing winds in a few weeks...

Edit: That guy above me already said that about "You might as well have been one of the terrorists." That's a shame...

 

[Oalex]

Jzero:

<< In 5 years, if the US armed forces are playing Mexican Standoff in the mountains of Afghanistan and bin-Laden is still on the lam, I bet I'll see most of you so quick to judge others, burning the US flag yourself on TV at some war protest. >>



That is my quote of the day, I really agree with that and it gave me a laugh too.

 

[rudi]

Now you tell me where did I say anything about justyfying those terrorist attacks? Where? I would really like to know...read the whole post.

This is the bottom line. The US did nothing that deserved such a radical and violent act by people who are too scared to reveal themselves. Rudi, whether you know it or not, you are being a terrorist sympathizer by justifying their actions. That is unacceptable. "

Are you getting paranoya or what? Now i am being a terrorist sympathizer just because i said some thing you dont like to hear?



<< Yes we ARE. Why? Because we produce the most and can have the highest quality of life. If the treaty would have put the same measures on countries developing their infrastructure, we would have signed it. The treaty penalized the most industrialized nations (US) and let others (India, China, others) run regulation free. No matter how you look at it, this treaty WAS NOT EQUITABLE, and the US would have been foolish to sign it (which is what the rest of the world wanted, I am sure). You see, it is human nature to bring others down to your level instead of working on improving your own current standing. Too bad YOU cannot see the big picture, rudi.
>>



Who said that you have the highest quality of life? Maybe for you....but whatever you think your values are not values of every human being on this planet. But ok..if you think so allright...but then pay for pruducing the highest amount of vaste. But this is really off topic.



<< At what point has the U.S. ever hidden the fact they helped Afghanistan simply because of the Russian factor? How come your country didn't help Tibet when China invaded? Maybe if you answer this question, the answer for the American's reasons not to will become evident.
ext >>



??? Now really...who are you kidding? What are u saying? My country doesnt help some rebels claiming that they are protecting democracy nor does it stick her nose in every matter on this world.





<< One quick question: Rudi, what is your religion and nationality? >>



Religion: dont belive in anything "institutionalised", nationality: Slovene

And let me get the things straight once more: I am afraid of war you might ignite because of premature action, I feel sorry for all inocent victims-I wish there will not be even more of them.

And for all those of you who think that i live in godforsaken country in mud hut....well maybe i prefered that instead of living in this crazy house. One more thing...i am not being biased by any media, cause here we probably have more european channels than you do plus our own plus your cnn and nbc so I wouldnt call myself as being influenced by any side. Maybe you must ask yourself how brainwashed are you by your own media?

I just hope for the best....thats all.

 

[spidey07]

alright, this has gone far enough.



<< In 5 years, if the US armed forces are playing Mexican Standoff in the mountains of Afghanistan and bin-Laden is still on the lam, I bet I'll see most of you so quick to judge others, burning the US flag yourself on TV at some war protest. >>



get out of our country you fscking traitor. How DARE you suggest "most of you" will be burning the US flag. :
:|:|:|:|:


You still don't get it. We are at WAR. We were attacked, we will counter.

<edit> i'll calm down now, that comment really hit a nerve.

 

[Looney]

Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA when former soviet union attacked Afganistan? He has the knowledge from your operatives. What does that say to you?


This isn't a big secret... but it would appear you're not very up to date on current affairs if you think 'maybe there is evidence.' And you obviously only listen to what you want to listen. The US aided NOT Bin Laden, but the rebels that were fighting the Soviets, which Bin Laden coincidentally was a part of. They were not training terrorists, they were helping a nation defend themselves from Communism.

Next, do you think that your great civilization was created on your flooor? How about exploiting (beyond fair limits)cheap labour force and nature in third world countries? Does anyone think about that? Do you think that this fact does not upset people around the world?

Both parties benefitted... the western world (including Europe) benefitted from cheaper product,s, and the 3rd world countries benefitted from getting to work. What, you think if they didn't make Nike they would be designing the next generation CPUs? No, they would be working in the fields for more labor, but less pay.

Maybe no one of you know, how delicated is your support to Israel? And that your military industry, because of its bussines aproach is harming local balances and thus leading them to you as guilty party for their war? They are not stupid, they know from where the support comes. You also cannot deny that your military ind. IS seeking new markets to sell....and arms are not friuts, they are produced to kill people.

At one time this was somewhat balanced... the Soviets provided arms to all the Arab nations, and the US provided arms to Israel. Just because the Soviets dissolved the US should stop supporting their friends?

 

[Geekbabe]

"And let me get the things straight once more: I am afraid of war you might ignite because of premature action, I feel sorry for all inocent victims-I wish there will not be even more of them."

"War we might ignite" ????? Seems to me that the only igniting done thus far has been a brutal attack on innocent citizens of this nation !!! Today marks one week since war was declared against us, we are still talking with other world leaders,gathering information,we have ,imho exercised admirable restraint as we grapple with the unspeakable horror of being attacked on our own soil !

 

[wyvrn]

Both parties benefitted... the western world (including Europe) benefitted from cheaper product,s, and the 3rd world countries benefitted from getting to work. What, you think if they didn't make Nike they would be designing the next generation CPUs? No, they would be working in the fields for more labor, but less pay.



Good points rudi and zwingle have yet to counter. It has been mentioned several times. You think they will even try

 

[Looney]

Now you tell me where did I say anything about justyfying those terrorist attacks? Where? I would really like to know...read the whole post.

Your entire post was a justification of the attack... you were taking the blame of the attacks from the terrorists, to saying the US brought this on themselves by their foreign policies. What a bunch of BS.

What would happen to the middle east if the US pulled out of their involvment? My personal opinion is that Israel would wipe out all their enemies.

What would happen to all the 3rd world economy if the US pulled out all their manufacturers? Those countries would fall into a depression because of all the unemployed. Who would suffer worst? Countries who are in depression and with millions unemployed, or the US with an increase in price and lower standard of living? And even that is temporary, because that would just cause humans to become more innovative, and technology will lower the price of products sooner or later anyways.

 

[Looney]

Good points rudi and zwingle have yet to counter. It has been mentioned several times. You think they will even try

Probably not... because most of these people that spout this garbage don't have the intellectual capacity to argue, all they're capable of are good sound bits and quotes they pick up.

 

[classy]

<< Did anyone of U asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you? >>



I didn't know a reason could exist to justify or explain the slaughter of thousands for no reason.

 

[hungrypete]

<< (forgive me for quoting hungrypete; I do not mean to single him out) who espouse a mentality of "If you're not with us, you're against us." Unfortunately, this idea polarizes the world into "Americans" and "Terrorists." Nothing in the world is ever so cut-and-dried, unfortunately. >>



That's the way it is right now. Am I wrong? You either condemn terrorism or you support it. Anyone in the middle is contributing to the supporters, helping them feel justified.

It really makes me sad that while some of us are eager to go and help our military in the upcoming conflict, others are already toying with thoughts of flag burning.

edit: WYSIWYG messes up my spaces... :|

 

[Oalex]

I am yet to witness anyone from either parties (anti or pro) change their point of view based on an argument on this forum in respect of last weeks event.

Some of us try to make long sentences (i did not want to use the word rational) , some of us just use words like "garbage" and "F-u" or "get out".

Is any of the parties right all the way NO!
Is any of the parties wrong all the way NO!

Yet we are not getting closer to each other. I think the only ppl. here that are wrong are those that think they are unmistakeably right.
We all want the other side to be on our side, it aint happennig, but we just won't give up.

 

[Jzero]

<< You still don't get it. We are at WAR. We were attacked, we will counter. >>



How dare I suggest that most of you will be burning the flag? It's about as easy as labelling someone else a "fscking traitor." You should try it sometime

As for "war," Riiiiight....people keep saying "We are at war." But A) W doesn't have the authority to declare war just by saying so and B) we haven't even figured out who we're at war with aside from "Terrorists" which is a group of people interspersed the world over, even on our own soil. Who _exactly_ do you propose to shoot at in this counterattack? Innocent Afghans? That makes you just another terrorist. Just like me, apparently.

Gonna try and get into a shooting war with Taliban fanatics in some of the worlds roughest terrain?
I've got a better idea: We should pick a stooge in the rebellion army in Afghan as our new leader for the cause. We'll fund them and provide weapons and support and they'll topple the Taliban. Sounds vaguely familiar, in fact....it sounds somewhat similar to the cirumstances that got Bin Laden and Saddam and the likes to where they are today. I hope we don't make THAT mistake again.

And finally, saying we do manage to successfully wage war in Afghanistan. Toppling the Taliban would be a human rights victory, but how will you find Bin Laden or any significant amount of his loyal stooges?

This isn't a traditional war. The old rules no longer apply. You can't pound any single government into submission. You can't predict Bin Laden's movements. You can't look through satellites and spy planes and find him sitting in the sand with his baseball glove waiting to catch a smart-bomb. It just is not that simple.
Is retaliation necessary? Of course. Is it possible that the US might go about "striking back" the wrong way and start losing current allies?

When the witch-hunt leaves Afghanistan for countries with more legitimized governments, support for the operation will begin to wane. Most countries support the US for now. We better take care that we don't lose that support--the result will be disastrous.

As for having to either support or oppose terrorism, I oppose it.
However, I oppose it on ALL fronts. Government-sanctioned terrorism is terrorism just the same. As someone else said, the US has exhibited great restraint so far, much to their credit. But a shooting war is going to start sometime. We better make sure we're shooting the right people.

 

[hungrypete]

<< As for having to either support or oppose terrorism, I oppose it.
However, I oppose it on ALL fronts. Government-sanctioned terrorism is terrorism just the same. As someone else said, the US has exhibited great restraint so far, much to their credit. But a shooting war is going to start sometime. We better make sure we're shooting the right people. >>



None of our intelligent members have been saying tripe such as 'kill all the afghans'. Only the idiots have been spewing that. *I* realize that a shooting war is going to start. You seem to only be interested in finding those directly responsible for the WTC attack. I am interested in trying to destroy terrorism and the governments that allow terrorists to organize and train within thier borders. This is my opinion becuase I don't want my children to have to deal with massive terrorist organizations like bin Laden's still operating with government blessings, like is the current situation in Afghanistan. Can you argue that countries like Afghanistan are not a tremendous help to international terrorist organizations? It's going to take a long term war involving every aspect of military engagement. I will support it as long as it takes. Our American public isn't going to let our government massacre innocents, but it is willing to have a few more innocent lives lost in order to bring safety for another short time (peace isn't going to last forever, no matter what). You say you oppose terrorism on all fronts, well that is going to require you to oppose many of the nations, many of the ones that people keep ignorantly wanting to nuke (when they obviously have no clue as to the true long term effects of such an action).