Bush couldn't add judges to the FISA court because the judgeships weren't authorized. Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, and Clinton have all filled new judgeships in their tenure, but the Democrats have stalled doing so until 2009.
Bush couldn't add judges to the FISA court because the judgeships weren't authorized. Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, and Clinton have all filled new judgeships in their tenure, but the Democrats have stalled doing so until 2009.
You are ignorant, plain and simple. These are not civilians we are dealing with here, they are soldiers, in a war zone. We always have and always will ensure that our own soldiers do not do anything stupid that will compromise the war effort. You are an idiot if you think that for whatever reason we should turn a entire blind eye to our soldiers due to the fact that every single soldier is obviously blindly patriotic and will never rick compromising the mission ever.
Your entire argument is based on some backwards emotional appeal, that we should feel bad because these people are american citizens. You have yet to actually explain why this is bad besides having a little hissy fit where I can see you jumping around crying and yelling "there citizens, wahhhhh citizens wahhhhh".
Another poster pointed out that the group who is monitoring should be monitored, I agree with that and assumed that was already in place. There is no valid reason to scrap this program at all though, or even change it.
The judge obstructionism peaked by the Republicans against Clinton. I've posted many details on that issue.
Just for some examples, it's the *Republicans* who changed the long-time standard for allowing Senators to block nominees from their state from both Senators opposing the nomination, to only one Senator opposing it under Clinton - and then changing it back to two again when Bush took office.
It's the *Republicans* who screamed murder over Clinton using his power of recess appointment, such as to appoint a black judge with huge support but blocked by a Southern Senator, and used the blackmail of threatening to block all his nominees if he did not agree to submit his planned recess nominations in advance to them in writing - while Bush went 'hog wild' with recess appointments to get past the Senate confirmation process on a regular basis.
True reform comes from the people and to the government; not from the government upon itself.
As Americans, how are we to protect our own civil liberties when the abuse comes from our own government? Institutions do not self-regulate. They must be regulated by an independant body and reviewed by a third party.
As Americans, how are we to protect our own civil liberties when the abuse comes from our own government? Institutions do not self-regulate. They must be regulated by an independant body and reviewed by a third party.
That may be what he told you, but he knew like we do, that if those companies testified about who wanted what, some big names heads would roll in the white house. Which is what would have happened.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
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I agree that they need to *clean up* the program some.
What's the point in listening to other peoples' phone sex? I mean why are we paying them for that (in addition to violations of the 4th). It sounds like a bunch of kiddies screwing off instead of doing their job. Shouldn't that normally get you fired?
At a minimum they need *adult* supervision and traing, not to mention better guidelines (unless they have them and are just ignoring them).
I don't think judicial oversight is the answer. Not only is it not practical, but how do you get a warrent from a judge? You explain the situation to the Judge and they either grant it or don't. Judges don't do their own independant investigation; they rely upon the word of those seeking warents. It's an imperfect system (warrents), but many here seem to act otherwise. *Innocent* targets are listened in on all the time, and we have procedures for that and they are apparently not being followed by these people
I note the story is from only 2 people and that their assertions have not yet been confirmed, nevertheless I'm willing to take the allegations seriously and support a Congressional inquiery. At the very least, the program's usefullness is seriously compromised by such juvenile hijinks.
Fern
Horsecrap! You obviously haven't read the articles. A great percentage of those surveilled were American civilians:
Try reading about the subject before you starting spewing your ignorant drivel!
Oh, sorry I thought you were intelligent to see the difference, I suppose not.
Here let me break it down for you simply.
Any person from a war zone (the middle east) calling home, or internationally is free game to being intercepted. It's a war, get over yourself. I am personally glad that people overall understand this, as can be seen by how little people care. Luckily we don't all think that we need to give away all our security to pander to interests that mean nothing overall.
Furthermore, due to the fact that these people being listened too are in a war zone and free game I would hope that the two people who "whistleblew" this story are tried as traitors, sadly that won't happen.
In theory, the people select a good president who represents their interests and rules according a spirit of the public interest.
In practice, the presidency seems to have shifted to a sort of advertising campaign position where the public can choose a big mac or a whopper, but an organic locally-produced burger is not on the menu, and the president's job is more to represent the interests of 'the powerful' and to be a popular figure who keeps the public calm and not asking too many questions, than a figure who represents the public against those powerful interests, which is what the founders (mostly) intended.
Dude, what are you smoking? The entire Middle East is not the "war zone!" You're so unbelievably ignorant, there's no point even trying to discuss this intelligently with you.
Seems like some people are of those "government can do no wrong" types. People like that shouldn't be allowed to vote much less be citizens of the U.S.
And yet.Clinton got about 370 judges confirmed. Bush has gotten 326. I have to laugh at your double speak, though about long standing traditions regarding senators blocking appointments, then whining about Jesse Helms doing it.
Of course, that's besides the point. There were only 7 FISA judges before 911, which clearly wasn't enough to process the requests that we knew were needed on 9/12. That was enlarged to 11 in the Patriot Act, which still isn't enough, as evidenced by the backlog of cases that accumulated last year.
If they can't handle the reduced load while being bypassed, they certainly can't handle hundreds of new requests in a timely fashion.
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