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Dick Cheney's vote during the apartheid era.

S

Shelly21

Diamond Member
The record shows that Dick Cheney had voted against a House resolution urging the release of Nelson Mandela from 23 years of imprisonment in 1985. The reason given was that The ANC was viewed as a terrorist organization. And since Nelson Mandela was the head of ANC, he's guilty by association.

Regardless, ANC is now viewed as a terrorist group then isn't the entire apartheid a state sponsored terrorism against millions of men, women and children?

And how is it that a "terrorist group" like ANC is now the group that saved current South Africa and that Nelson is the father of the current South Africa?

At the time of the revolution, the American colonist would engage in activities against the government. That could be viewed as terrorist like today. Is history the best tool to use to see what group will eventually not be a terrorist group but a group of freedom fighting heroes?

 
Terrorism is just a term we throw around at every group that is fighting an established military power.
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
colonists blew up schools full of british children?
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Ah, so there is a difference in your book?

I'd consider Boston tea party an act of terror by today's standard.

Did the colonists ever targeted any loyalist civilians?
 
The War of Independence was brutal. The British were particularly brutal, often killing whole families and burning their homes.

Anyway, I'm not sure I understand where you are going with this inquiry. Why are you trying to define terrorism?

Cheney was a racist pig and that's why he voted against the resolution. If you don't understand that you are deluding yourself. He also voted against a holiday for MLK.

-Robert
 
I don't think there's any question America has committed terror. In fact, we committed genocide against the native americans. Much of this involved going to indigenous lands and totally going nuts on women and children. Not to mention terror against slaves.

Moreover, American administrations have systematically overlooked or condoned acts of terror by its proxies when it suited them. What we have a problem with is terror against Americans and Israelis. It's just a convenient way to legitimize our current wars.
 
Originally posted by: Shelly21
The record shows that Dick Cheney had voted against a House resolution urging the release of Nelson Mandela from 23 years of imprisonment in 1985. The reason given was that The ANC was viewed as a terrorist organization. And since Nelson Mandela was the head of ANC, he's guilty by association.

Regardless, ANC is now viewed as a terrorist group then isn't the entire apartheid a state sponsored terrorism against millions of men, women and children?

And how is it that a "terrorist group" like ANC is now the group that saved current South Africa and that Nelson is the father of the current South Africa?

At the time of the revolution, the American colonist would engage in activities against the government. That could be viewed as terrorist like today. Is history the best tool to use to see what group will eventually not be a terrorist group but a group of freedom fighting heroes?
Click to expand...

Dick Cheney is predjudice and his voting record speaks volumes. John Edwards I am glad he pointed out that Cheney has voted against HEADSTART and MLK holiday. Cheney has never been in favor anything concerning blacks and that includes Nelson Mandela. Cheney, Orin Hatch, Trent Lott, Jessie Helms, and now dead and gone Strom Thurman have been the foundation of the Republican Party and all of them have literally 30-40 year historys of anti-black behavior. You can slice it anyway you want these indivuals aren't worth the dirt I spit on in my backyard. I get pissed when hear folks try to make excuses for these jerk-offs. So the reason he voted against Nelson Mandela is because he was black, plain and simple. And I challenge any one to find one peice of evidence that says otherwise. Trent Lott directly recieved support from Conservative Council of Christians. Orin Hatch has contributed articles to the racist magazine Southern Partisan. I could go on and on, but I'll be glad when these and few others finally go the route of Thurman. We find out afterwards he was a fraud at that.
 
Originally posted by: Shelly21
The record shows that Dick Cheney had voted against a House resolution urging the release of Nelson Mandela from 23 years of imprisonment in 1985. The reason given was that The ANC was viewed as a terrorist organization. And since Nelson Mandela was the head of ANC, he's guilty by association.

Regardless, ANC is now viewed as a terrorist group then isn't the entire apartheid a state sponsored terrorism against millions of men, women and children?

And how is it that a "terrorist group" like ANC is now the group that saved current South Africa and that Nelson is the father of the current South Africa?

At the time of the revolution, the American colonist would engage in activities against the government. That could be viewed as terrorist like today. Is history the best tool to use to see what group will eventually not be a terrorist group but a group of freedom fighting heroes?
Click to expand...

I dont think thats the whole story there. Im trying to remember the details, Ive actually had thsi discussion before.

As for the colonists, they were patriots 🙂 I dont think I ever read anywhere about Washington intentionally killing school children or ordering workers heads to be cut off. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to draw that parallel.

 
S. Africa was a cold war ally. Cheney said it was about terrorism, but IMO that was just a convenient excuse. It was about keeping S. Africa away from the USSR camp.

Originally posted by: Shelly21
The record shows that Dick Cheney had voted against a House resolution urging the release of Nelson Mandela from 23 years of imprisonment in 1985.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think there's any question America has committed terror. In fact, we committed genocide against the native americans. Much of this involved going to indigenous lands and totally going nuts on women and children. Not to mention terror against slaves.

Moreover, American administrations have systematically overlooked or condoned acts of terror by its proxies when it suited them. What we have a problem with is terror against Americans and Israelis. It's just a convenient way to legitimize our current wars.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the US has been involved in the overthrow of stable governments to replace them with those friendly to our interests and has used tactics, such as assassinations, which could definitely be termed as terrorist acts.
 
Originally posted by: chess9
The War of Independence was brutal. The British were particularly brutal, often killing whole families and burning their homes.

Anyway, I'm not sure I understand where you are going with this inquiry. Why are you trying to define terrorism?

Cheney was a racist pig and that's why he voted against the resolution. If you don't understand that you are deluding yourself. He also voted against a holiday for MLK.

-Robert
Click to expand...

It is funny that you played the race card. I read about this on another forum (unlike this one, it is filled with 90% conservative people) that called Dick Cheney a racist but I was more interested in how terrorism is defined and changed with time. How one man's terrorism is another's patriotism. You can't spell patriotism without the word "riot". Our founding fathers were patriots to us because they were fighting for our interests.

As for the racist allegation, I didn't think he was one because pretty much the entire party voted the same way. (I don't know him that well, I'm young and I'm just reading about him to make my own judgement) He's just voting with the party. When Henry Kissinger denounced what was going on in South Africa, he was critized by his own party.
 
rebels, freedom fighters, etc.

these are terrorists, only because the state controls the present, and therefore controls the history books.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think there's any question America has committed terror. In fact, we committed genocide against the native americans. Much of this involved going to indigenous lands and totally going nuts on women and children. Not to mention terror against slaves.

Moreover, American administrations have systematically overlooked or condoned acts of terror by its proxies when it suited them. What we have a problem with is terror against Americans and Israelis. It's just a convenient way to legitimize our current wars.
Click to expand...

Thats the only argument you have. Keep bringing up the native americans in every discussion. We know what happened was terrible, but it was a lonngg time ago. We are a different country now
 
If Republicans as so fond of freedon as Bush now says why did Republicans fight every attempt to sanction South Africa during the era of apartheid?
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think there's any question America has committed terror. In fact, we committed genocide against the native americans. Much of this involved going to indigenous lands and totally going nuts on women and children. Not to mention terror against slaves.

Moreover, American administrations have systematically overlooked or condoned acts of terror by its proxies when it suited them. What we have a problem with is terror against Americans and Israelis. It's just a convenient way to legitimize our current wars.
Click to expand...

Thats the only argument you have. Keep bringing up the native americans in every discussion. We know what happened was terrible, but it was a lonngg time ago. We are a different country now
Click to expand...

There were atrocities against civilians in Vietnam. Different country? We still attacked black civilians in the 60s and hell today. Different country? We nuked civilian target in WW2. Terrorism?

Strain and strain as you want to fit terrorism into a narrow little peg where America is innocent and you end up with an absurd definition that includes foreigners.
 
Did the colonists ever targeted any loyalist civilians?
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Yes, they did. Beatings, arson, theft, etc etc. Another thing, during the Revolutionary War Protestant pastors used their pulpits to incite favor against the British much in the same way Muslim clerics have been using their positions to criticize and attack the US.
 
The only way for me to be totally safe is to kill everyone who isn't me.

Terrorists i tell you, all of you. :cries;
 
Originally posted by: nutxo
Didnt Kennedy assist in the capture of mandela?
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PLEASE inform yourself just a tad better, would you? :roll:
 
Shelly:

Many Republicans voted for freeing Mandela, MLK and Head Start. Sheezh.... Cheney was in the definite minority on all those votes as I recall. Have you gone back and looked at his voting record? I didn't think so....

In the 1970's the Southern Segs joined the Republican Party in record numbers. A few Southern Senators and Representatives were ex-Klansmen and closet neo-Nazis. I don't think Helms ever converted his anti-black bias to anything respectable. Strom Thurmond seems to have come to his senses in 1990's and, of course, now we know he has a black daughter. Regardless, Cheney's bigotry was well-known at the time.

Yes, the word terrorism is subject to definitional problems, just like every other word, including "IS". 🙂

Each side in this debate will use any term with the connotation they deem appropriate, regardless of historical predicate, meaning or etymology. In political discourse, precision and rationality are the first casualties.

-Robert
 
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