Dice says in 2013 Frostbite 2 games will require 64bit OS

[HarvardAce]

There is no reason for a web browser to need 300+ megs of memory to display a 100kb web page.

Maybe not, but I want to know what web pages you are loading that are only 100kb. Certainly not any page on AnandTech.

At the end of 2011 the average page size was nearing 1MB. I have 15 tabs open right now and firefox is taking 430MB, so there still obviously is a decent amount of bloat.

More on topic, given the excess of processing power, RAM, bandwidth, etc. compared to 10 years ago, I'd rather software companies (whether OS, games, etc.) focus on the product rather than trying to fit it into an arbitrarily small "box."

 

[blurredvision]

The only lazy coding was from Microsoft for being so behind in the first place.

The Linux kernel was available on 64-bit architecture in 2001...before you could even get 64-bit hardware.

That was over a decade ago......why is this still even an issue?

That's like somebody making a lightbulb before we harnessed electricity. Who cares?

 

[Nintendesert]

My daughter and my son both have xp on their computers.

If something works, why change?

It doesn't work. The security on Windows XP is horrendous and your kids are probably part of some botnet.

 

[Stringjam]

That's like somebody making a lightbulb before we harnessed electricity. Who cares?

No, it isn't. It's seeing a future need and planning accordingly. There are more uses for computers in this world besides gaming, and even back then they could have benefited from more memory address space - - especially in professional audio and video applications. I guess MS just stuck their fingers in their ears and went "LA LA LA" loud enough to ignore it.

64-bit architectures were around LONG before that....I believe going back all the way to the 70's, but it was only in the realm of supercomputers.

 

[Scooby Doo]

64bit would definitely help with sims/simcity, elder scrolls/fallout games or basically any game that has extensive support for mods.

 

[dagamer34]

The only lazy coding was from Microsoft for being so behind in the first place.

The Linux kernel was available on 64-bit architecture in 2001...before you could even get 64-bit hardware.

That was over a decade ago......why is this still even an issue?

Kinda odd considering the 64-bit architecture in most computers was created by AMD in 2000 with its first CPU launching in 2003.

 

[black0ut]

I think this is a pretty normal requirement to make, cpus from the last 5 years all have amd64 support, and I bet there are some significant speed ups in the physics engine by taking advantage of the extra registers.

 

[blackened23]

I would imagine the whole thing they are saying here is, we're lazy and this is what you'll need, even though the ports we'll be making the games from won't actually benefit from it.

You have got to be kidding me. Aside from the performance benefit of 64 bit, you'd have to be insane to think that the additional RAM (which a 64 bit allows) would not allow for the creation of bigger and better game worlds.

I say it's about time someone stepped up and stopped using the 32 bit crutch. Gaming has been held back by compatibility far too long, and now with PS4 using a 64 bit operating system, well....all PC games will require the same. About damn time.

If you're stuck on hardware from 2003 and Windows XP then I guess you won't be playing PC games.

 

[Grooveriding]

I don't know anything about current console software/os, but couldn't this be in preparation for the new consoles this year and them being, I assume, 64 bit based ?

All Dice's games are cross-platform now.

 

[black0ut]

New consoles are based on amd64 architecture, but are obviously 32 bit compatible. Seems more like a slow buildup to this decision more than some sudden cause like new consoles.

 

[Dankk]

I don't know anything about current console software/os, but couldn't this be in preparation for the new consoles this year and them being, I assume, 64 bit based ?

All Dice's games are cross-platform now.

It has more to do with memory limitations. 32-bit operating systems can only utilize a maximum of ~3.5GB of RAM. Most (all?) PC games ever released are 32-bit, and thus can't access anymore memory than the 32-bit OS it's installed on.

Now imagine games written natively for 64-bit systems, where that memory limitation is removed. The whopping 8GB of RAM in modern gaming PCs can really be put to work. That means being able to load much more content; huge levels, huge maps, etc, etc. (Just so you know: 64-bit Windows 7 Ultimate can support up to 192GB of memory. That's an order of magnitude more RAM!)

Of course, consoles have never had more than a single gigabyte of memory, so the whole 32bit/64bit thing has been irrelevant for them. The PS4 is going to change that though, with it's 8GB of RAM.

Combine that with the PS4's x86-64 CPU architecture, and the thing's basically a gaming PC... completely unlike the PS3, which had the notoriously complicated, proprietary Cell processor.

Having a console with similar specs to a PC is wonderful, and benefits both PC gamers and console gamers alike:

-Easier to port games from one system to another
-Higher quality PC ports
-Higher quality PS4 games, since it's an environment programmers are already used to
-Lots of memory available on both systems

It's a win for everyone.

And I know I've strayed off-topic here... but yes, it's a good thing DICE is going 64-bit only. I don't know a single gamer who still uses a 32-bit operating system.

 

[Grooveriding]

Yeah I understood the benefits of 64 bit OS on our PCs with the more addressable memory and assumed this could of been why the switch for Dice with consoles coming with more power now.

This really could turn out well for PC gamers. One of the most disappointing things in recent games on PC, with so many being console-ports, are the small and confined level designs in many of them. Now that new consoles are coming that will be able to handle much bigger levels in memory, we should see the benefits of those when ported to the PC.

I wonder if this is also going to allow for the chance at easily emulating the console on your PC to play the games on PCs

 

[Cerb]

The only lazy coding was from Microsoft for being so behind in the first place.

The Linux kernel was available on 64-bit architecture in 2001...before you could even get 64-bit hardware.

That was over a decade ago......why is this still even an issue?

Linux didn't get support good enough for developing with it until 2004, and it was not until 2005-6 that it was worth using. That's after hardware was available. Clearly, you didn't actually try it out while it was new.

XP 64-bit came out around the same time as Linux' software support got decent, in 2005, as did Server 2003 R2.

Realistically, we're 5-8 years into having good enough 64-bit support.

If anyone was behind, it was Intel. Practically every ISA but x86 and ARM, that was still around, had 64-bit already. They wanted to push IA64, which most people didn't want, and they got stiffed with x86-64 as a result.

My reaction to the OP: OK. Seems fine to me. I've been 64-bit-OS-only since 2007, and have 4GB patched any game that could use it. >2GB is good (64-bit OS, LAA patch), >4GB is better (64-bit native).

(Just so you know: 64-bit Windows 7 Ultimate can support up to 192GB of memory. That's an order of magnitude more RAM!)

Actually, it's nearly 2 orders. A standard 32-bit version will limit the process to 2GB. The rest of the space is up to the OS to use. It may store files soon to be needed again, but may not, and on a 32-bit system, it's not a lot of headroom.

 

[Texashiker]

It has more to do with memory limitations. 32-bit operating systems can only utilize a maximum of ~3.5GB of RAM. Most (all?) PC games ever released are 32-bit, and thus can't access anymore memory than the 32-bit OS it's installed on.

Now imagine games written natively for 64-bit systems, where that memory limitation is removed. The whopping 8GB of RAM in modern gaming PCs can really be put to work. <snip>

And I know I've strayed off-topic here... but yes, it's a good thing DICE is going 64-bit only. I don't know a single gamer who still uses a 32-bit operating system.

While I fully agree with everything you posted, should a company isolate 20% is its potential customer base?

As far as I am concerned, 64 bit OS should have been main stream with windows XP, and not vista or windows 7. Around 8 - 10 years there were articles in some of the various pc magazines asking what was taking so long with 64 bit adoption.

Here we are in 2013 still having the 64 bit discussion.

 

[FalseChristian]

I agree that ther's no reason not to be running Windows 7 64-bit (fuck Windows 8). I dual boot 32-bit Windows XP so I can play Quake II and run QBasic without using DoSBox. This is the future.

 

[Cerb]

MIPS had customers way back, like ~1990 back, that could make use of the additional virtual address space. Its time came a long time ago, people just don't want to admit it, for some reason. We should have had mainstream 64-bit hardware and OSes long before we had enough physical RAM to strangle the address space with (IE, when 512MB-1GB was the norm).

IMO, the fact that 2-4GB works reasonably well, shows that MS' people were far from lazy. That is no small feat. Today, 2-3GB in 32-bit Linux, with modern software, especially some games, will get you into page thrashing and stuttering due to foreground compacting cycles, due to lack of low RAM for the OS.

 

[Dankk]

While I fully agree with everything you posted, should a company isolate 20% is its potential customer base?

If that 20% "potential customer base" had any interest in playing high-end games such as BF3, then they would've upgraded a long time ago.

DICE isn't isolating jack shit. (Except for a small group of uninformed people who still insist that XP is the superior OS)

 

[blackened23]

While I fully agree with everything you posted, should a company isolate 20% is its potential customer base?

As far as I am concerned, 64 bit OS should have been main stream with windows XP, and not vista or windows 7. Around 8 - 10 years there were articles in some of the various pc magazines asking what was taking so long with 64 bit adoption.

Here we are in 2013 still having the 64 bit discussion.

I disagree that 20% of the user base are active game players, don't let steam stats fool you - keep in mind that a large majority of those stats are made up of users who run steam at startup and are using worthless laptops aged several years. Most of these people don't even game aside from something silly such as TF2 perhaps, if that.

Steam statistics are littered with such cases. Take stats with a grain of salt, it isn't entirely representative, as there are a wide number of mobile steam users that aren't active gamers. This is precisely why you see Steam stats full of people using 1366*768 displays.

Everyone I personally know who is an active PC gamer (buys new stuff like bf3) has long been on a 64 bit OS.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Now if only they would release a game worth playing for more than 2 months..

Battlefield and Wings of Prey are the only games I even play since COD went all idiocracy.

BF is still where it's at, even the older ones are a blast still.

 

[Texashiker]

I disagree that 20% of the user base are active game players, don't let steam stats fool you - keep in mind that a large majority of those stats are made up of users who run steam at startup and are using worthless laptops aged several years. Most of these people don't even game aside from something silly such as TF2 perhaps, if that.

While I agree with you, if we discredit the steam stats, then we have nothing to estimate potential customers.

What other company directly measures hardware stats from its users?

Personally I welcome the move to a 64 bit operating system. Microsoft has done a lousy job of pushing 64 bit operating systems. As a result we will probably be playing the 32 vs 64 bit game for decades.

As long as microsoft continues to sell a 32 bit operating system, people will continue to install it.

 

[IAteYourMother]

While I agree with you, if we discredit the steam stats, then we have nothing to estimate potential customers.

What other company directly measures hardware stats from its users?

Personally I welcome the move to a 64 bit operating system. Microsoft has done a lousy job of pushing 64 bit operating systems. As a result we will probably be playing the 32 vs 64 bit game for decades.

As long as microsoft continues to sell a 32 bit operating system, people will continue to install it.

you just need better stats. I'd be curious to see the operating system/hardware stats of all BF3 players

 

[blackened23]

While I agree with you, if we discredit the steam stats, then we have nothing to estimate potential customers.

What other company directly measures hardware stats from its users?

Personally I welcome the move to a 64 bit operating system. Microsoft has done a lousy job of pushing 64 bit operating systems. As a result we will probably be playing the 32 vs 64 bit game for decades.

As long as microsoft continues to sell a 32 bit operating system, people will continue to install it.

\

You mean they will continue to install it until this fall, when gaming will require a 64 bit operating system. Since both upcoming consoles are using a 64 big OS, all multiplatform games will also require a 64 bit operating system. They can either move forward or be left in the dust. :thumbsup:

No longer will they hold everyone else back because they want to use a 10 year OS with 13 year old hardware. Screw that nonsense.

 

[Nintendesert]

\

You mean they will continue to install it until this fall, when gaming will require a 64 bit operating system. Since both upcoming consoles are using a 64 big OS, all multiplatform games will also require a 64 bit operating system. They can either move forward or be left in the dust. :thumbsup:

No longer will they hold everyone else back because they want to use a 10 year OS with 13 year old hardware. Screw that nonsense.

Agreed. I'm tired of being held back by the lowest common denominator. Kick them to the curb.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Are the next gen consoles going 64bit? (I don't know) If not, then you aren't leaving anyone in the dust, because they are still the lowest common denominator and games will still be ports.

 

[pcslookout]

Agreed. I'm tired of being held back by the lowest common denominator. Kick them to the curb.

Get use to it that is the way life is.