Diablo 2 class balance

Dorkenstein

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2004
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Are all the classes equally important/fun to play as of the latest patch or are some just crap while others are overpowered? My cousin and I are going to play together on US East and I am going to be a Necro, he is going to be a paladin. Are these good together? Thanks.
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,239
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76
It's a really balanced game, blizzard has had tons of time to work the classes out.

Even in the beginning it was pretty balanced.

Corpse explosion is awesome for necros by the way.
 

Onita

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
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71
Depending on items, there are several "standout" classes. Hammerdin is the most notable, being able to solo nearly everything in the game. Light sorc w/ infinity is also pretty overpowered. But, all classes are viable IMO.
 

soybeast

Senior member
Apr 26, 2006
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I'm a d2 noob, but hammerdin pally + necro party combo seems pretty good to me. Necro's summons and/or bone wall act as good protection/buffer for a pally to launch his blessed hammers. I think Necros might also have some awesome mana aura that's great for paladins
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
>_> Doesn't hammers get stopped by bonewall though... -_-

Just be a sorc or hammerdin. HDins do not allow for skill variety btw, so you have to level everything correctly or restart. -_- Kinda sucks but it's the best character build in the game for mfing and botting. (Also owns everything)
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
No its pretty unbalanced still.

Barb - You can solo the game with decent items, but you will get trashed in PvP unless your the new BvC (Barb vs Caster) varient which has 6k+ life and can take one hell of a beating. Even then your probably gonna have an easier time with a pally or druid.

Necro - Probably cant solo the game, but with enigma (the teleport armor) your good in PvP, they are no longer the joke they were in 1.09.

Pally - The new best class imo, can solo the game, can magic find, and can trash most other chars in PvP, its what the sorc used to be.

Sorceress - You cannot solo the game, no way, in hell there are immunities to fire/lightning/cold everywhere and in PvP people can simply pull out absorb items, so you may get a kill but when they go back to their stash and come out with the absorb fire ammy/absorb cold shield your stuffed.

Amazon - You dont see many zons around anymore, might be able to solo the game, not too good in PvP these days without the bug they used to have in 1.09. Still a good zon should still be a threat, unless your a teleporting paladin/druid.

Druid - Nearly as good as the pally from what i can tell, it can magic find, it can also trash other chars in PvP, druid vs pally i dont know who would win, they both use overpowered area of effect skills in PvE and PvP so the first to attack would probably lose.

Assassin - Not a clue, the only class i dont know about in 1.12. They were ok back in 1.09 but a lots changed since then so no idea, a teleporting trapsin may prove quite dangerous but thats just speculating.
 

GenHoth

Platinum Member
Jul 5, 2007
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A good necro can solo everything, it just takes awhile with the appropriate use of the curses at his command
 

CottonRabbit

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2005
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You can solo the game with every class, and with many builds in each class. You might not kill everything, but you can still solo. Every class has viable pvp builds. Although desyncing hammerdins are probably the toughest, and can be unbeatable if they hack. Blessed hammer is the only obviously overpowered skill.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Barb - You can solo the game with decent items, but you will get trashed in PvP unless your the new BvC (Barb vs Caster) variant which has 6k+ life and can take one hell of a beating. Even then your probably gonna have an easier time with a pally or druid.

Player Vs. Player in D2, in my humble opinion, is a joke. I will agree with you however that the Barbarian is generally (not always, depending on the gear, of course, but also depending on which skills were maxed out) weak in PvP, but then again, I myself only played PvP in a very non-serious level back in the 1.08 to 1.09 days. On the other hand, the Barbarian in Player Vs. Monster is in my opinion the best there is to solo the game, but yes that's just me, I'm a Barbarian fan, I have one right now at level 93 in Ladder and 94 in Non-Ladder.

My N-L and Ladder Barbarians, a Mace Barb and a Sword Barb respectively have up to 95+ in Resistances in Hell, deal elemental, physical and magic damage with up to 1.8K to 2.8K damage completely excluding bonuses from Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike and Critical Hit. They can eat Stygian Dolls and Souls and even Oblivion Knights casting Iron Maiden on them for breakfast, and in grave danger they can Howl their way out of the crowds when Whirlwind isn't an option due to Iron Maiden or other possible reasons. The Physical Immune monsters means no threat at all thanks to Berserk, and if dexterity is lacking and chances to hit certain monsters in Hell is low they can cast Battle Cry to not only reduce their target's defenses by up to 90% but reduce their physical damage by up to 50%.

All that and more including 250%+ Magic Find excluding Find Item skill which adds around another extra 50%MF with the + to Skills items I have. I don't even need any Merc to comfortably go solo in Hell. And so on and on, without even mentioning the Merc I have gives me a Might Aura, and I too have one as well along with Sanctuary Aura which knocks back the Undead, making a Chaos Sanctuary run a pleasure to do. Yes, to me the Barbarian is the best class in Diablo II, but I've been making a couple of dozens of builds with them since 1.08, I'm very used to them, my next most played build being the Amazon and the Necromancer.

Necro - Probably cant solo the game, but with enigma (the teleport armor) your good in PvP, they are no longer the joke they were in 1.09.

The Necromancer in 1.10/1.11/1.12 can solo Hell mostly if he's a Summoner. The Summons and also the Revives can be tremendously powerful, along with the Iron Golem or even Blood Golem, and let's not forget the Merc's help too which in the end with good gear can always provide an Aura to the party passively. Also the Necromancer's Amplify Damage curse can remove certain immunities such as PI's (Physical Immunes) and others, not everywhere, not against all monsters, but a great number and varieties of them are affected by that curse's advantage.

The last Necromancer I made was in Ladder Season 3, he was a Summoner and I barely ever joined any public or private party games to gain the advantage of a rush through Hell or any help for Quests, I did everything alone including my Magic Find runs and my Experience runs (Baal runs and Chaos Sanctuary runs). The initial difficulty for a Summoner/Reviver resides only into actually finding the proper monsters to Revive for the best effectiveness and the best Skills attribution and items used for the best results with his Summons. When that is done and when he knows where to go (mostly, but not always since it's often random) for his "good" Revives then such a Necro build can easily, yes easily do Hell alone.

On the other hand, a Poison and Bone Necromancer will have a hard time without very good gear, and even then... I'm not sure.

Pally - The new best class imo, can solo the game, can magic find, and can trash most other chars in PvP, its what the sorc used to be.

Without Enigma the Paladin suddenly becomes quite a generic class, sometimes comparable to the Barbarian, but not as effective, not at all. As I said, remove just one Skill from him and one, ONE item in the game, and oh... suddenly he's not as powerful. The Skill I'm referring to is Blessed Hammer (Hammerdin builds), and the item, already mentioned, the Enigma RuneWord. Remove both and you suddenly can't fight when Iron Maiden is cast upon you, and you suddenly cannot even Smite your way alone in Hell (in other words even a good Smiter build cannot entirely solo up to Hell without encountering great danger on his way, I'd love to see a Smiter alone in Chaos Sanctuary without Enigma and Blessed Hammer, good luck, the easy part will be Diablo, but only him and nothing else).

Yes, the Hammerdin is extremely powerful, too powerful in fact. Just one Skill, its Synergies, and one single item in the game makes him so efficient (simply because Hammerdin deals Magical Damage like nothing else in the game, with the only competition in terms of efficiency being the Barbarian's Berserk). Yes of course a good Hammerdin also needs other RuneWords to work at its full potential, but you get the point. Give one a good Exile or a good Herald of Zakarum shield, a good Call to Arms Flail and you're suddenly much better than what a Sorceress should be doing instead and you suddenly are the most beloved class build in the entire D2 community since 1.10 was released.

To me, the actual item/RuneWord Enigma and the introduction of Synergies giving that much advantages to the Blessed Hammer is the imbalance of Diablo II at the moment, much to the pleasure of the ones owning that build, of course.

Sorceress - You cannot solo the game, no way, in hell there are immunities to fire/lightning/cold everywhere and in PvP people can simply pull out absorb items, so you may get a kill but when they go back to their stash and come out with the absorb fire ammy/absorb cold shield your stuffed.

True, but the Sorceress has never truly been used as a solo "assaulter" class. In its nature Diablo II is a team game, yes. And the Sorceress just like the Paladin (prior to the discovery of and creation of the Hammerdin build) were meant as Party-Support classes, especially the Paladin with his Auras, but yes the Sorceress too. The main use for the Sorceress now and back then when I started during the 1.08 days was to do very predictable/set Magic Find runs to the places you know don't usually (or always don't) spawn monsters that are all Immune to your chosen Skill tree (Lightning, Cold or Fire). And if Sorceresses go with Hybrid builds (all three Skills trees, or even two of them) then their efficiency diminishes due to the lack of properly chosen Synergy-giving Skills.

Even the "best" Sorceresses I've seen this Season so far still are only Magic Finders, or characters Rushing others through Hell (but then again that might be dangerous depending on which monsters spawn and which Immunities they have, sometimes requiring the Rushing Sorc to ask the player who's being rushed to create a new game so to possibly give a better chance to the Sorc with perhaps weaker monsters spawns). But generally speaking, that's fine. The Sorc was never meant to be a solo'er.

Amazon - You dont see many zons around anymore, might be able to solo the game, not too good in PvP these days without the bug they used to have in 1.09. Still a good zon should still be a threat, unless your a teleporting paladin/druid.

The best Amazon builds, in my opinion (and from what I've tried myself) are Javazons, but Bowazons can be quite effective, mostly with the Faith RuneWord (there again, the example of what just a single item can change so many things in terms of what a class can now do which was barely possible before without it).

I do know right now that the #2 or #3 Amazon in this current Ladder Season simply rapped Hell Baal in an 8-Players game before most players following after that Baal Run actually reached Baal to fight him with that Amazon. It took her between 6 to 7 seconds to bring him down, which is faster than many good Hammerdin builds I know of and regularly do Baal Runs with. She's a Javazon build and I do not know her exact gear, but she probably had an Enigma. I was one of the players who didn't have time to get to Baal to see her fight him before he died during that Run. The others commented on it and were all quite surprised.

That build might be an exception, but generally speaking the Amazon is capable of doing solo in Hell, but she probably needs the help of an Act 2 Merc (giving perhaps Holy Freeze Aura or maybe Blessed Aim for added Attack Rating).

Druid - Nearly as good as the pally from what i can tell, it can magic find, it can also trash other chars in PvP, druid vs pally i dont know who would win, they both use overpowered area of effect skills in PvE and PvP so the first to attack would probably lose.

That's the only class on which I cannot comment much, I never touched that class, but from what I'm seeing right now in this Season, and from what I remember of past Seasons, the Elemental Druid seems to be the preferred choice between that build and the Shape Shifting build. I can also safely say that I haven't seen a single Druid going about without Hurricane, so that Skill must be powerful or at least one of the most efficient ones. They seem to be good Party-Support characters too, with their Oak Sage and their Wolves and his Bear coming to his aid. I may try one this Season.

Assassin - Not a clue, the only class i dont know about in 1.12. They were ok back in 1.09 but a lots changed since then so no idea, a teleporting trapsin may prove quite dangerous but thats just speculating.

I can comment on that one easily.

Right now in this Season I had the chance (and I should say honor as well) of knowing the #2 Assassin, named Cherylin (not the account name, but the character's name). She's a Trapasin, level 96 I believe, or if he reached level 97 recently it wouldn't surprise be, the guy barely ever sleeps to achieve it, but he worked his arse off to get where he is.

With that said, his build doesn't even have the required good gear to make his build "godly", and already he's quite devastating with her. And he's not only using Traps, but also various Shadow Disciplines skills such as Mind Blast which is the very best crowd control Skill I've ever seen in action since the Barbarian's Whirlwind. He got the Shadow Warrior around as well, along with an Act II Merc, but the last time I've seen the gear his using it wasn't all that great, so I wouldn't even imagine how great it could be with good gear.

He told me however that just like the Sorceress he often has to check out for Immunities (to Lightning especially, if not exclusively). But generally speaking to a lesser extent than the Sorceress since the Assassin, even a Trapasin build, can deal significant physical damage. He says his current build can definitely solo Hell, but he's got to be careful at times, he also said that he can rush people in Hell thanks to Mind Blast mostly, but the main Trapasin's force is to work in team, to put it in his words. There's very few truly Party-Independent classes (or I should rather say Builds) in Diablo II, other than the Barbarian and the Necromancer.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
Well seems you know a lot more than i do about the current state of DII Zenoth. Ive not been into DII seriously since 1.09. What ive learned about its current state in 1.12 is just from playing a bit since the DIII announcement. I learned that barb = suckage in PvP a little too late... my first new char was a barb, now level 85 with a grandfather and arcanes valor which im told is junk now :frown: probably why i got it free.

Since your in the know about current things, whats the value of a +2 sorc skills hellfire torch large charm with +17 attributes and +10 resistances? I know these things are rare and someone traded me one for my pretty common 14% life leach helm, how many runes can i get for it?
 

CottonRabbit

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2005
1,026
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I'll say it again, any build is viable with the right equipment and planning. Some of the runewords like infinity, exile, and phoenix completely dominate everything in pvm. You can beat hell using only normal attack, heck I've even pvp'ed using only normal attack on a daggerzon.

While I won't write an essay in response to Zenoth, I will say that a good barb can be very powerful in pvp, as can any class. With 6k health or more, a barb is one of the few classes that can tank a few blessed hammers or tornadoes. With nigma and weapons like ebotdz/beastz, you will be able to catch and damage your opponents too. Barbs have the same casting speed breakpoints as Sorcs, very good fhr, and leap is a great stunning move. WW isn't even necessary. My berserk barb can do 18k unresistable magic damage, (or a max of 36k if deadly or critical strike trigger), and has caught quite a few characters off guard with one or 2 hit KO's (he dies a lot too because it's berserk :)). I've seen some wolf barbs do pretty well against certain opponents as well.

In no way am I saying that barbs are the best pvper's though. I believe every build besides hammerdins have effective counters, and 3 out of 5 of my geared pvper's can take on most barbs easily. But definitely aren't bad at pvp.

Edit: I think that storch would get 2 or 3 hr's on west NL. Probably much more on ladder.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
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Originally posted by: Soviet
Sorceress - You cannot solo the game, no way, in hell there are immunities to fire/lightning/cold everywhere

Infinity.

But you are right, Sorcs were never meant to solo hell. However, they are the prime rushers and MFers while they destroy anything in lower difficulties.
 

powpowpow

Member
Jul 15, 2008
78
0
0
I just started a new summoner necro. It's hard to start off by myself because I have trouble killing the enemies with out my usual skeleton help. But once there's one dead corpse on the ground it is game over for the bad guys!
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Originally posted by: powpowpow
I just started a new summoner necro. It's hard to start off by myself because I have trouble killing the enemies with out my usual skeleton help. But once there's one dead corpse on the ground it is game over for the bad guys!

-_- you're just asking to get kicked off bnet with summon necro >_>
 

powpowpow

Member
Jul 15, 2008
78
0
0
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: powpowpow
I just started a new summoner necro. It's hard to start off by myself because I have trouble killing the enemies with out my usual skeleton help. But once there's one dead corpse on the ground it is game over for the bad guys!

-_- you're just asking to get kicked off bnet with summon necro >_>

Wha? Why?
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Originally posted by: powpowpow
Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Originally posted by: powpowpow
I just started a new summoner necro. It's hard to start off by myself because I have trouble killing the enemies with out my usual skeleton help. But once there's one dead corpse on the ground it is game over for the bad guys!

-_- you're just asking to get kicked off bnet with summon necro >_>

Wha? Why?

He's probably referring to the lag it may cause by having a huge army of Summons and Revives on-screen, sometimes crashing your connection with Battle.Net server. That problem was regularly present back in the days, a long time ago, same thing with the Sorceress' Meteors and her Static Field too. But those problems are barely existent anymore on today's and even yesterday's hardware, and Blizzard upgraded their B.Net servers since then too. There are still very few occasions where the problem can still happen but it's now extremely rare and often, if not always caused by the client's hardware and not B.Net alone.
 

Piuc2020

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,716
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How hard really is Hell? I mean, I don't remember it being THAT hard as some people make it seem to be (unable to solo Hell, WTF?), I played through the game back when it was released with my Barbarian, I knew nothing about the game and just played of my past experience with RPGs, Hell was definitely Hell but I managed to reach Diablo and got bored with the game, it was definitely tough as heck but it was manageable and I probably could have beaten Diablo and Baal if I had kept playing.

I'm gonna start a new game with my brother and cousin with a Bowazon and they are going to play a Sorceress and Barbarian/Assasin (hasn't decided yet) but without any specific build just off their heads, is it really going to be that hard?

Also, we are playing through TCP/IP (we only have 2 CD-Keys), how much content are we missing? Anyway to get that content?
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Lot's of talk about Sorc's not being able to solo Hell, which seems odd since they are one of the most common PvM classes outside of the broken paladin. (If you are actually curious, read the sorc forums about all the various builds, enchanter, meteorb, orbers, cl/orb, hardcore build, blue sorc, etc).

Two things though:
- Just because a specific build is good, does not mean the class is balanced. Some classes can be broken a lot easier, some builds require ridiculous work and periods of absolute gimpiness. It is very deceptive to hear about a specific build and then think you want to be that character. Unfortunately, D2 doesn't have a talent respec, so some builds can be completely destroyed by a few wrong moves.
- Lots of builds and lots of the balance issues with the game seem to stem from runewords, however, what most people don't mention is attempting to acquire these legitly is not an easy process. It's not like you're going to stumble across the words necessary for enigma on your first trip through normal. In fact, a lot of what is wrong with D2 stems from otherwise rare items available in large quantities somehow. There is chart somewhere, about how you will find about 1 million first level runewords before seeing a zod. The other upper tier runewords aren't that far off.

Piuc2020, as per how difficult hell is, my assassin got 2shotted in Act1 Nightmare. That's not manageable, that's a complete overhaul of equipment needed. The concept of difficulty, what's hard or not, is just a variable of how good your gear is. If you have legit gear and you aren't farming your ass off, you are going to see some serious jumps in difficulty between normal -> nightmare and nightmare -> hell.
 

Judgement

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
3,815
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Originally posted by: Zenoth
My N-L and Ladder Barbarians, a Mace Barb and a Sword Barb respectively have up to 95+ in Resistances in Hell, deal elemental, physical and magic damage with up to 1.8K to 2.8K damage completely excluding bonuses from Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike and Critical Hit. They can eat Stygian Dolls and Souls and even Oblivion Knights casting Iron Maiden on them for breakfast, and in grave danger they can Howl their way out of the crowds when Whirlwind isn't an option due to Iron Maiden or other possible reasons. The Physical Immune monsters means no threat at all thanks to Berserk, and if dexterity is lacking and chances to hit certain monsters in Hell is low they can cast Battle Cry to not only reduce their target's defenses by up to 90% but reduce their physical damage by up to 50%.

All that and more including 250%+ Magic Find excluding Find Item skill which adds around another extra 50%MF with the + to Skills items I have. I don't even need any Merc to comfortably go solo in Hell. And so on and on, without even mentioning the Merc I have gives me a Might Aura, and I too have one as well along with Sanctuary Aura which knocks back the Undead, making a Chaos Sanctuary run a pleasure to do. Yes, to me the Barbarian is the best class in Diablo II, but I've been making a couple of dozens of builds with them since 1.08, I'm very used to them, my next most played build being the Amazon and the Necromancer.

What kind of spec do u prefer for barb? I have a WW sword/shield barb and i flew through the game until hell mode act 1

Now nothing there can really hurt me at all but it takes foreverrrrr to kill even a single zombie - I guess I need a better weapon the drops in NM seem pretty awful, I think I have around the best I can get in NM mode
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
Originally posted by: skace
Lot's of talk about Sorc's not being able to solo Hell, which seems odd since they are one of the most common PvM classes outside of the broken paladin. (If you are actually curious, read the sorc forums about all the various builds, enchanter, meteorb, orbers, cl/orb, hardcore build, blue sorc, etc).

Infinity Lightning sorcs are the second fastest rushers in the game right before a hammerdin. I had a 99 lightning sorc before this year's ladder reset that can solo a full, Hell Baal and rushed 7 other players from Normal to Hell almost as fast as a Hammerdin.

There WERE a few lucky spawns in the game that were completely immune to lightning, even with Infinity. But those were either avoided or killed by your merc. And a merc wielding some good gear could take on anything saved for a boss.
 

nova2

Senior member
Feb 3, 2006
982
1
0
anyone play on any median mod realms? i've found several via google.
http://modsbylaz.planetdiablo.....com/introduction.html

""Your attention to detail and obvious painstaking desire for balance are both commendable and, quite honestly, exemplary""

of course, you can also run median yourself, which is what i did when i had some friends over.

no blizzard.net dependency (among other things) = goodness. (and of course your characters wont get deleted after awhile)
 

ArmchairAthlete

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2002
3,763
0
0
It was probably never balanced, but each class has viable builds. Some are more effective than others, some are better for starting with no items than others. They're just different ways to play. By all means, try many!
 

Dorkenstein

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2004
3,554
0
0
Wow, didn't think this thread would get so many replies. Can anyone recommend a PvM Druid build? Thanks.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Judgement
Originally posted by: Zenoth
My N-L and Ladder Barbarians, a Mace Barb and a Sword Barb respectively have up to 95+ in Resistances in Hell, deal elemental, physical and magic damage with up to 1.8K to 2.8K damage completely excluding bonuses from Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike and Critical Hit. They can eat Stygian Dolls and Souls and even Oblivion Knights casting Iron Maiden on them for breakfast, and in grave danger they can Howl their way out of the crowds when Whirlwind isn't an option due to Iron Maiden or other possible reasons. The Physical Immune monsters means no threat at all thanks to Berserk, and if dexterity is lacking and chances to hit certain monsters in Hell is low they can cast Battle Cry to not only reduce their target's defenses by up to 90% but reduce their physical damage by up to 50%.

All that and more including 250%+ Magic Find excluding Find Item skill which adds around another extra 50%MF with the + to Skills items I have. I don't even need any Merc to comfortably go solo in Hell. And so on and on, without even mentioning the Merc I have gives me a Might Aura, and I too have one as well along with Sanctuary Aura which knocks back the Undead, making a Chaos Sanctuary run a pleasure to do. Yes, to me the Barbarian is the best class in Diablo II, but I've been making a couple of dozens of builds with them since 1.08, I'm very used to them, my next most played build being the Amazon and the Necromancer.

What kind of spec do u prefer for barb? I have a WW sword/shield barb and i flew through the game until hell mode act 1

Now nothing there can really hurt me at all but it takes foreverrrrr to kill even a single zombie - I guess I need a better weapon the drops in NM seem pretty awful, I think I have around the best I can get in NM mode

What level is your Barb?
Any particular reason why you're using a shield?
If you max BO, Shout, and put most of your stat points into VIT, you shouldn't be afraid to take a hit.