DHS to begin collecting DNA

[BoberFett]

DNA Collection

The government plans to begin collecting DNA samples from anyone arrested by a federal law enforcement agency ? a move intended to prevent violent crime but which also is raising concerns about the privacy of innocent people.

Using authority granted by Congress, the government also plans to collect DNA samples from foreigners who are detained, whether they have been charged or not. The DNA would be collected through a cheek swab, Justice Department spokesman Erik Ablin said Wednesday. That would be a departure from current practice, which limits DNA collection to convicted felons.

...

There are dozens of federal law enforcement agencies, ranging from the FBI to the Library of Congress Police. The federal government estimates it makes about 140,000 arrests each year.

I'm not sure what to say other than "Screw that.'

This government is out of control and needs to be dismantled. Sorry, but you people who want to keep growing government for your free health care and space programs have to prove that you can be trusted with big government before you can have it.

 

[Jaskalas]

I?m curious. Legally how is DNA ANY different from them being allowed to forcibly take your fingerprint?

 

[piasabird]

This is what they need to do in Texas with all of these FLDS members. Can you imagine if they had to take and pay for hundreds of DNA Samples???

 

[Vette73]

I know!! This is a outrage. Next thing you know they will take your picture, fingerprints, etc... where will it end!!!!!

 

[SirStev0]

Does anyone know where the line was for a police state and at what point we pranced right over it?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I know!! This is a outrage. Next thing you know they will take your picture, fingerprints, etc... where will it end!!!!!

:roll:

It won't end thanks to fascists like you who are so scared of your own shadow you'd trade everyone elses privacy to make your pussy little self feel safe.

 

[waggy]

yeap.

soon when you get stoped not just arrested they will do it.

or places of employment will do it in the name of "safety". of course right now they can't do much with dna but in 10 years what then?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I know!! This is a outrage. Next thing you know they will take your picture, fingerprints, etc... where will it end!!!!!

:roll:

It won't end thanks to fascists like you who are so scared of your own shadow you'd trade everyone elses privacy to make your pussy little self feel safe.

He makes a valid point though. At one point, drawing someone's picture was considered by some to be stealing their soul. Taking a picture - same thing. Now we have computers that can store and analyze fingerprints.
At which point did we "prance" into the realm of a police state? Was it already going too far to allow use of the new technology of photography? How about storing those images in digital format?

Just because it's new technology doesn't make it inherently evil or dangerous. It's how it's used or abused that's the problem. DNA isn't the only kind of evidence which can be abused.

 

[dmcowen674]

Chipping :thumbsup:

 

[StageLeft]

It seems this could be more useable than fingerprints and may solve crimes retroactively or proactively, but this is just one step closer to a mandatory DNA for all. Being arrested alone is hardly a convicted offense, so already they're not using much to dictate the necessity of a capture of dna.

 

[piasabird]

I wonder if we can come up with a DNA test for a Habitual Liar???

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I wonder if we can come up with a DNA test for a Habitual Liar???

Just test all politicians and see what their DNA has in common.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Gattaca?

But in all seriousness, I'm fine with it. What the hell can the govt do with it? Find me anywhere in the world?

 

[Cogman]

I see no problem with it. They are taking DNA from offenders not every person that walks the street. If this is the line, then like others have said, fingerprints and photographs crossed it long ago. Personally I am more worried about things like income tax, property tax, ect. and the government thinking it is their right to take it. It was part of the whole reason we left the UK.

 

[Vic]

It's disturbing, for sure, but not (yet) cause for alarm. As long as this collection is used for nothing more than forensics, like how they take fingerprints, then it should be okay. The difference here though is that (unlike what you saw on CSI) DNA cannot be used to isolate individuals like fingerprints can. It could if we had better technology, but we don't have anything close to that yet. So there need to be some safeguards, i.e. if this is going to be used for conviction of a later crime, then re-testing and other confirmation should be performed.

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Does anyone know where the line was for a police state and at what point we pranced right over it?

An authoritarian state is one that exists for its own good instead of the good of its people. I won't say we've pranced over that line yet, but we're certainly on the edge.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Vic
It's disturbing, for sure, but not (yet) cause for alarm. As long as this collection is used for nothing more than forensics, like how they take fingerprints, then it should be okay. The difference here though is that (unlike what you saw on CSI) DNA cannot be used to isolate individuals like fingerprints can. It could if we had better technology, but we don't have anything close to that yet. So there need to be some safeguards, i.e. if this is going to be used for conviction of a later crime, then re-testing and other confirmation should be performed.

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Does anyone know where the line was for a police state and at what point we pranced right over it?

An authoritarian state is one that exists for its own good instead of the good of its people. I won't say we've pranced over that line yet, but we're certainly on the edge.

What can DNA be used for that is so scary? (BTW It can be used to tell if two individuals are related, thats done all the time.) Please elaborate for me, because I really am confused on what the big fear is.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Cogman
What can DNA be used for that is so scary? (BTW It can be used to tell if two individuals are related, thats done all the time.) Please elaborate for me, because I really am confused on what the big fear is.

Well... your DNA literally is you. As the technology advances, it could be used to know almost everything about you. Right now, it's nowhere close to that. For example, it can be used to tell if 2 individuals are related, but it can't be used to tell 2 related individuals apart. Or even 2 unrelated individuals in many cases.
But someday, quite realistically, your DNA could be deciphered to know everything about your true genetic potential and make-up, barring life experiences. How smart you are, your probable psychological make-up, what diseases and ailments you will be prone to, your life expectancy, what work you might be best at, and so forth.

That makes it very scary indeed.

 

[palehorse]

I wish they'd limit it to those who get convicted of a felony crime, rather than simply "arrested." The proposed system will quickly get saturated with otherwise innocent people (mistaken charges, dropped charges, reduced charges, etc); which is pretty lame.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Vic

Well... your DNA literally is you. As the technology advances, it could be used to know almost everything about you. Right now, it's nowhere close to that. For example, it can be used to tell if 2 individuals are related, but it can't be used to tell 2 related individuals apart. Or even 2 unrelated individuals in many cases.
But someday, quite realistically, your DNA could be deciphered to know everything about your true genetic potential and make-up, barring life experiences. How smart you are, your probable psychological make-up, what diseases and ailments you will be prone to, your life expectancy, what work you might be best at, and so forth.

That makes it very scary indeed.

Why? So they know that I might be smart, big whoop. It will come nowhere near close enough to know how I would act in a given situation. Life experience Trumps genetics in almost all instances.

Why is it so scary that the government could know what ails me, my eye color, or anything else along those lines? Information is powerful yes, but knowing, for the most part, random facts about an individual really doesn't benefit them one way or another.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Cogman
I see no problem with it. They are taking DNA from offenders not every person that walks the street. If this is the line, then like others have said, fingerprints and photographs crossed it long ago. Personally I am more worried about things like income tax, property tax, ect. and the government thinking it is their right to take it. It was part of the whole reason we left the UK.

No they're not. It says they're taking it from everyone arrested. Not everyone arrested is an offender.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Vic

Well... your DNA literally is you. As the technology advances, it could be used to know almost everything about you. Right now, it's nowhere close to that. For example, it can be used to tell if 2 individuals are related, but it can't be used to tell 2 related individuals apart. Or even 2 unrelated individuals in many cases.
But someday, quite realistically, your DNA could be deciphered to know everything about your true genetic potential and make-up, barring life experiences. How smart you are, your probable psychological make-up, what diseases and ailments you will be prone to, your life expectancy, what work you might be best at, and so forth.

That makes it very scary indeed.

Why? So they know that I might be smart, big whoop. It will come nowhere near close enough to know how I would act in a given situation. Life experience Trumps genetics in almost all instances.

Why is it so scary that the government could know what ails me, my eye color, or anything else along those lines? Information is powerful yes, but knowing, for the most part, random facts about an individual really doesn't benefit them one way or another.

Random facts about an individual are used against them all the time. It's called profiling.

The more random facts that can be tied together with databases full of other random facts, everywhere you travel, everything you buy, every website you visit, everyone you know, and someday, some computer somewhere is going to tell some person with a gun that you're a terrorist.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Cogman
Why? So they know that I might be smart, big whoop. It will come nowhere near close enough to know how I would act in a given situation. Life experience Trumps genetics in almost all instances.

Why is it so scary that the government could know what ails me, my eye color, or anything else along those lines? Information is powerful yes, but knowing, for the most part, random facts about an individual really doesn't benefit them one way or another.

Uh no (to the bolded)... and the rest of your logic is lacking. Just FYI: apathy is not an argument. Nor are we talking about "random facts." Let me repeat: your DNA is you. It is your personal blueprint every bit as much as the blueprints to a building or a machine. We're talking science here. Maybe you believe in some religion that holds sacred the value of life choices and soul (and that is your right), but this is science and we wouldn't even know about DNA without science.
Seriously, why even get involved in the discussion when you don't know the issue? And hide behind the pretense of apathy when obviously you care enough to get involved in the discussion?

 

[Praxis1452]

It's worrying. The government is only doing to the "criminals" but in fact they are doing it to everyone arrested whether they are convicted or not. That is what I gathered. Same for the immigrants/foreigners.

Kinda reminds me of minority report and the eye, except you can never remove it.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Cogman
Why? So they know that I might be smart, big whoop. It will come nowhere near close enough to know how I would act in a given situation. Life experience Trumps genetics in almost all instances.

Why is it so scary that the government could know what ails me, my eye color, or anything else along those lines? Information is powerful yes, but knowing, for the most part, random facts about an individual really doesn't benefit them one way or another.

Uh no (to the bolded)... and the rest of your logic is lacking. Just FYI: apathy is not an argument. Nor are we talking about "random facts." Let me repeat: your DNA is you. It is your personal blueprint every bit as much as the blueprints to a building or a machine. We're talking science here. Maybe you believe in some religion that holds sacred the value of life choices and soul (and that is your right), but this is science and we wouldn't even know about DNA without science.
Seriously, why even get involved in the discussion when you don't know the issue? And hide behind the pretense of apathy when obviously you care enough to get involved in the discussion?

Yees, to pretend that environment trumps genetics in almost all cases is grossly inaccurate. A lay person's child, trained from birth, is almost sure to never be an elite marathoner because he lacks the genetics. A trail-park kid sent to the best schools will likely never be as smart as, for example, me; their genetics just don't support it.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: piasabird
This is what they need to do in Texas with all of these FLDS members. Can you imagine if they had to take and pay for hundreds of DNA Samples???

That is exactly what they want to do.

They want to find out what kid belongs to who(and see if any incest has occured).