Dexter Jackson wins the 2008 Mr. Olympia!!!!

[redgtxdi]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2008_olympia_main.htm


Still not sure I agree. Only saw tonight, so I can only assume Jay must not have looked that good last night. Apparently he lost 12lbs overnight (water) to come in tonight looking much sharper.........HOWEVER.........I don't know that such a situation constitutes dethroning the champion.

But, whatever the case..........Dexter Jackson now holds the title.


Hopefully Victor Martinez is healthy for next year's Mr. O 'cuz between he, Dennis Wolf, Jackson and Cutler, it could make it the best Mr. O in a couple decades!!!

 

[RagingBITCH]

I don't get how cutting weight has anything to do with dethroning the champion. They all cut weight for contests and dehydrate themselves.

 

[redgtxdi]

The idea is that you're cutting to show off your "product".......but in this case, some are accusing Jay Cutler of having come in soft. (Same accusations last year, though he's always fought the giant Ronnie Coleman before so size was more critical)

This year, Jay was the most massive guy in the bunch but he didn't need to be.

The overnight water loss definitely helped but his better choice of coming into 2008 should have been to focus on development and symmetry instead.

But, in general, dethroning the champion usually takes more than winning a vacated title (a la boxing). You have to BEAT the champion and I really don't think that Dexter did that here.

 

[StevenNevets]

http://www.dexterjacksonshredded.com/

50 Cent - I Get Money:disgust:

 

[EvilYoda]

Oh wow, I was wondering if he'd pull it off. Thanks for the thread and the link!

 

[EvilYoda]

On second thought, can anybody get to the embedded video so I can download it? I'm having issues, many of them, so I'd like to just download the mens finals and maybe a few of the pre-sessions.

 

[presidentender]

It seems to me like we're getting backlash against ridiculous mass. I mean, we've gone from Coleman to Cutler to Jackson, and each man is less massive than the last. I wonder if this will continue? I think it would make the sport more approachable and therefore more popular if we went back to an older aesthetic (a la Arnold, Frank Zane, or even Samir Bannout), rather than men who don't even look believably human.

 

[EvilYoda]

I'm trying to watch it at work now and the video's even choppier than yesterday night - what gives? Can't watch it like this *stutterstutterstutter*

 

[redgtxdi]

Ya, bb.com's video sucks. Even if you find it on Youtube, it's still got that nasty audio delay/pop, etc. I'm sure better videos will come shortly.


As for freakish mass.....I'm sure it's still going to be there........and increase.

After quality, symmetry, sharpness, etc........all one can do is go bigger and bigger is typically going to win assuming all else is equal.

Wait until Victor Martinez shows up next year, bigger & sharper than ever. He will probably sweep the floor with everybody else's carcass, unless Jay really goes after the title one more time!!

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Wait until Victor Martinez shows up next year, bigger & sharper than ever. He will probably sweep the floor with everybody else's carcass, unless Jay really goes after the title one more time!!

Martinez? How about Kai Greene? Or Phil Heath?

 

[brikis98]

Out of curiosity, what is it that you guys enjoy about bodybuilding "competitions"? I'm not trying to be insulting, but just genuinely curious what you find interesting about watching some dudes flex? They all look massively abnormal, most of them are on steroids, and it's not like you're even watching them train (which actually might be impressive). Is it like watching a train wreck - you don't want to look, but you can't look away?

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: brikis98
Out of curiosity, what is it that you guys enjoy about bodybuilding "competitions"? I'm not trying to be insulting, but just genuinely curious what you find interesting about watching some dudes flex? They all look massively abnormal, most of them are on steroids, and it's not like you're even watching them train (which actually might be impressive). Is it like watching a train wreck - you don't want to look, but you can't look away?

You're just admiring someone's hard work and dedication - it's completely unrealistic and we know that they take enough supplements (and other "stuff") to kill a small horse, but whatever.

As for watching them work out...you can search for that stuff on YouTube and it's boring. They just do a bajillion isolation exercises. If I'm watching a workout, I'm watching a powerlifter or weightlifter.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: brikis98
Out of curiosity, what is it that you guys enjoy about bodybuilding "competitions"? I'm not trying to be insulting, but just genuinely curious what you find interesting about watching some dudes flex? They all look massively abnormal, most of them are on steroids, and it's not like you're even watching them train (which actually might be impressive). Is it like watching a train wreck - you don't want to look, but you can't look away?

Originally, I believed all that crap Joe Wieder spews about how you can succeed without steroids. I've got a decent body for it, so I became a fan of bodybuilding because I wanted to be a bodybuilder. I was gonna be Mr O 2012, baby! Yeah, that'll happen...

Of course, being that big without chemicals is a crock, and it takes way too much time to be practical. I lift like a bodybuilder because it gives me more in everyday life than powerlifting does; all those little actuators come in handy more often than the prime movers, and it makes an impression on people: men look good, even under business suits, when we're muscular.

I'm still a fan of pro bodybuilding because it looks cool.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

You're just admiring someone's hard work and dedication

QFT, a lot of people don't get it because they're looking for some aesthetic or sex appeal. But I watch because I know how hard it is to get into the gym and lift hard every time. These guys have managed it for YEARS. That is darn impressive, and fun/funny to watch them show off.

 

[DomS]

Cutler should've been 3x....he was better than Ronnie when Ronnie got his 4th I think it was.

 

[Jahee]

What happened to Coleman? Has he retired or something?

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Jahee
What happened to Coleman? Has he retired or something?

Yep, at least from the Olympia. He didn't like losing, I guess.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: brikis98
Out of curiosity, what is it that you guys enjoy about bodybuilding "competitions"? I'm not trying to be insulting, but just genuinely curious what you find interesting about watching some dudes flex? They all look massively abnormal, most of them are on steroids, and it's not like you're even watching them train (which actually might be impressive). Is it like watching a train wreck - you don't want to look, but you can't look away?

Arnold refers to bodybuilding as art - so those that follow bodybuilding are admiring the artwork of the competitors.

Arnold also said in his most recent update to his book (which was 1999) that he fully expects bodybuilders to start coming down in size over the next decade or so.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Deeko


Arnold also said in his most recent update to his book (which was 1999) that he fully expects bodybuilders to start coming down in size over the next decade or so.

Is that because the judging standards will change, or because of some other reason?

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

You're just admiring someone's hard work and dedication

QFT, a lot of people don't get it because they're looking for some aesthetic or sex appeal. But I watch because I know how hard it is to get into the gym and lift hard every time. These guys have managed it for YEARS. That is darn impressive, and fun/funny to watch them show off.

Making it to the gym for your regularly scheduled workouts, even over a period of years, is not that great of an accomplishment. Heck, many people do that and still fail to make any progress whatsoever.

I think genetics accounts for the vast majority of why the pro bodybuilders look the way they do. Genetics are what allow them to become that big in the first place, and they are also what gives them a hyper sensitivity to the drugs they take, which allows them to become real freaks of nature. Tweaks in their diet, training, and drug regimen are what help give them the edge over other pro competitors.

Really, you could lift and eat right consistently for years and never come close to looking like a competitive bodybuilder, let alone a pro one.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

You're just admiring someone's hard work and dedication

QFT, a lot of people don't get it because they're looking for some aesthetic or sex appeal. But I watch because I know how hard it is to get into the gym and lift hard every time. These guys have managed it for YEARS. That is darn impressive, and fun/funny to watch them show off.

Making it to the gym for your regularly scheduled workouts, even over a period of years, is not that great of an accomplishment. Heck, many people do that and still fail to make any progress whatsoever.

I think genetics accounts for the vast majority of why the pro bodybuilders look the way they do. Genetics are what allow them to become that big in the first place, and they are also what gives them a hyper sensitivity to the drugs they take, which allows them to become real freaks of nature. Tweaks in their diet, training, and drug regimen are what help give them the edge over other pro competitors.

Really, you could lift and eat right consistently for years and never come close to looking like a competitive bodybuilder, let alone a pro one.

Really, you think that it's practically all genetics? Have you seen the transformations for a lot of the guys at bodybuilding.com? Tiny, tiny, ectomorphs that don't look like they could ever be big become 5'10", 220. It's a lot of diet, a lot of hard work, and in competitions a lot of steroids and drug abuse. Muscle formation is genetic, as well is some of the ability, but not nearly close to "most" of it.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

You're just admiring someone's hard work and dedication

QFT, a lot of people don't get it because they're looking for some aesthetic or sex appeal. But I watch because I know how hard it is to get into the gym and lift hard every time. These guys have managed it for YEARS. That is darn impressive, and fun/funny to watch them show off.

Making it to the gym for your regularly scheduled workouts, even over a period of years, is not that great of an accomplishment. Heck, many people do that and still fail to make any progress whatsoever.

I think genetics accounts for the vast majority of why the pro bodybuilders look the way they do. Genetics are what allow them to become that big in the first place, and they are also what gives them a hyper sensitivity to the drugs they take, which allows them to become real freaks of nature. Tweaks in their diet, training, and drug regimen are what help give them the edge over other pro competitors.

Really, you could lift and eat right consistently for years and never come close to looking like a competitive bodybuilder, let alone a pro one.

Really, you think that it's practically all genetics? Have you seen the transformations for a lot of the guys at bodybuilding.com? Tiny, tiny, ectomorphs that don't look like they could ever be big become 5'10", 220. It's a lot of diet, a lot of hard work, and in competitions a lot of steroids and drug abuse. Muscle formation is genetic, as well is some of the ability, but not nearly close to "most" of it.

There are no secret or magic routines or diets. The techniques for building muscle are the same now as they were 50 years ago. Explain to me how someone can design a routine consisting of nothing but light weight, high rep isolation exercises, eat crap food, and yet still become bigger and leaner than me in less time, when I follow proven routines, and have a strict, clean diet. The only explanation for that is genetics.

I will use myself as an anecdotal example - In 2001, I was 6', 150 lbs - the stereotypical ectomorph. Over the next 4 years, I managed to increase my weight to ~195 with no noticeable addition of bodyfat, based on waist tape measurements and the mirror. I used a routine consisting of heavy weight, low rep compound movements, plus a clean diet that was ~400-500 calories over maintenance. I tracked it all on fitday. I didn't miss any workouts. Basically, I did everything "right".

After that point however, the weight I gained was disproportionately fat, despite my continuing to lift heavy and eat a clean diet. I tried several bulks. No matter how much or how little over maintenance I ate, the ratio of fat:muscle gain was becoming very unfavorable. I don't see any other possible explanation for that other than the fact that a person's body is predisposed to only naturally carry a certain amount of muscle at any given level of bodyfat - i.e. genetics.

Also, I think your example of bodybuilding.com transformations is an example of self-selection bias. Who is more likely to post pictures - the person who manages to add 50 lbs. of muscle, or the person who only manages to add 20? I realize that is a simplification, but the fact is that people who achieve outstanding results are more likely to post pictures than people who achieve mediocre results. Also, it's not like everyone on that board eventually reaches the magic 220 lbs. lean level.

You can't make an absolute statement that says "everyone should be capable of adding X lbs. of muscle at under a bodyfat of Y%".

If you know of a routine that guarantees I can reach 220 lbs. without adding any additional bodyfat, then I'd love to hear it. Keep in mind that bone structure also has an effect on how much muscle one can add. I have a very thin bone structure. All of the big guys I see at the gym have big bones. They would be bigger than me even if they didn't train.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Special K

There are no secret or magic routines or diets. The techniques for building muscle are the same now as they were 50 years ago. Explain to me how someone can design a routine consisting of nothing but light weight, high rep isolation exercises, eat crap food, and yet still become bigger and leaner than me in less time, when I follow proven routines, and have a strict, clean diet. The only explanation for that is genetics.

I will use myself as an anecdotal example - In 2001, I was 6', 150 lbs - the stereotypical ectomorph. Over the next 4 years, I managed to increase my weight to ~195 with no noticeable addition of bodyfat, based on waist tape measurements and the mirror. I used a routine consisting of heavy weight, low rep compound movements, plus a clean diet that was ~400-500 calories over maintenance. I tracked it all on fitday. I didn't miss any workouts. Basically, I did everything "right".

After that point however, the weight I gained was disproportionately fat, despite my continuing to lift heavy and eat a clean diet. I tried several bulks. No matter how much or how little over maintenance I ate, the ratio of fat:muscle gain was becoming very unfavorable. I don't see any other possible explanation for that other than the fact that a person's body is predisposed to only naturally carry a certain amount of muscle at any given level of bodyfat - i.e. genetics.

Also, I think your example of bodybuilding.com transformations is an example of self-selection bias. Who is more likely to post pictures - the person who manages to add 50 lbs. of muscle, or the person who only manages to add 20? I realize that is a simplification, but the fact is that people who achieve outstanding results are more likely to post pictures than people who achieve mediocre results. Also, it's not like everyone on that board eventually reaches the magic 220 lbs. lean level.

You can't make an absolute statement that says "everyone should be capable of adding X lbs. of muscle at under a bodyfat of Y%".

If you know of a routine that guarantees I can reach 220 lbs. without adding any additional bodyfat, then I'd love to hear it. Keep in mind that bone structure also has an effect on how much muscle one can add. I have a very thin bone structure. All of the big guys I see at the gym have big bones. They would be bigger than me even if they didn't train.

The "proven routines" you're following might be proven to do different things. The other guys are sleeping and resting better. You aren't eating as well as you think you are.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: presidentender

The "proven routines" you're following might be proven to do different things. The other guys are sleeping and resting better. You aren't eating as well as you think you are.

All routines claim to build size and strength. Some may claim to focus more on size and/or strength, but lifting heavy weights and eating enough calories will always lead to gains in size and strength, assuming you still have potential left to exploit. I don't especially buy into the whole "X reps for size, Y reps for toning" BS. You will find big people following all sorts of routines. However, for what it's worth, I've recently changed routines from Max-OT to Bill Starr 5x5, which is a fairly significant change. Max-OT uses a bodybuilding style split, whereas Bill Starr 5x5 uses full body workouts. We shall see if this yields any improvements.

Regarding my sleep - if 7-8 hours of sleep per night is not enough, then I'm not sure I want to spend much more time than that sleeping each day. I highly doubt those who are bigger and leaner than me are sleeping more than 8 hours per night. Not only that, but I feel fine on 7 hours of sleep per day. If lack of sleep were the issue, wouldn't I feel it?

You don't know anything about my diet, so don't say I'm not eating as well as I think I am. I have been tracking my diet on Fitday for 4 years now. If you really want to take a look I can link it and make it public, but here is my current diet:

Meal 1

2 scoops whey
1 cup oats

Meals 2 and 3

1.25 cup cottage cheese
1.4 oz mixed nuts

Meal 4

2 scoops whey
1 cup oats

Meal 5

2 scoops whey
75g scoops dextrose

Meal 6

5 oz chicken breast
1 cup rice

Meal 7

5 oz chicken breast
1.5 oz mixed nuts
vegetable or fruit


It doesn't get much cleaner than that. I know people who eat much more junk than me and are still able to get bigger and leaner.

I'm just trying to get bigger/leaner like every other guy in the gym. The problem is that when I mention that I have stalled out, people assume I am a beginner and keep giving me advice like "eat more", when I already have a very good idea of how much I need to eat to gain weight. Remember, I already went from 150->195ish. Getting beyond that point without excessive fat gain is what I can't seem to accomplish, no matter how little over maintenance I eat. It's just a question of whether the fat is added quickly or slowly.

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: presidentender

The "proven routines" you're following might be proven to do different things. The other guys are sleeping and resting better. You aren't eating as well as you think you are.

All routines claim to build size and strength. Some may claim to focus more on size and/or strength, but lifting heavy weights and eating enough calories will always lead to gains in size and strength, assuming you still have potential left to exploit. I don't especially buy into the whole "X reps for size, Y reps for toning" BS. You will find big people following all sorts of routines.

Regarding my sleep - if 7-8 hours of sleep per night is not enough, then I'm not sure I want to spend much more time than that sleeping each day. I highly doubt those who are bigger and leaner than me are sleeping more than 8 hours per night. Not only that, but I feel fine on 7 hours of sleep per day. If lack of sleep were the issue, wouldn't I feel it?

You don't know anything about my diet, so don't say I'm not eating as well as I think I am. I have been tracking my diet on Fitday for 4 years now. If you really want to take a look I can link it and make it public, but here is my current diet:

Meal 1

2 scoops whey
1 cup oats

Meals 2 and 3

1.25 cup cottage cheese
1.4 oz mixed nuts

Meal 4

2 scoops whey
1 cup oats

Meal 5

2 scoops whey
75g scoops dextrose

Meal 6

5 oz chicken breast
1 cup rice

Meal 7

5 oz chicken breast
1.5 oz mixed nuts
vegetable or fruit


It doesn't get much cleaner than that. I know people who eat much more junk than me and are still able to get bigger and leaner.

I'm just trying to get bigger/leaner like every other guy in the gym. The problem is that when I mention that I have stalled out, people assume I am a beginner and keep giving me advice like "eat more", when I already have a very good idea of how much I need to eat to gain weight. Remember, I already went from 150->195ish. Getting beyond that point without excessive fat gain is what I can't seem to accomplish, no matter how little over maintenance I eat. It's just a question of whether the fat is added quickly or slowly.

I want to say your diet is very carb deficient, but you're saying more leads to fat gain so I guess you've experimented with that already. Question: are you still going up in weights? If you are, I wouldn't worry too much about weight gain If you're stuck at the same weight and not going up in weights then you have a problem. However, I respect what you have to say on the 'genetic limit' because you clearly have tried and tested things whereas some posters just quote sites all day.